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  1. #1
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    Default Initial druid observations

    Here are some initial observations

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    TIER 2

    [INDENT]Primal Beast: Gain 5/10 melee power when raging in animal form. Gain one more use of rage 1/2. AP COST: 1 Requires Rage of the Beast

    TIER 3

    [INDENT]Enduring Beast: while raging Increase healing amp by 10/20 in any animal forms. Gain one more use of rage per rank. AP COST: 1 Requires: Undying Beast

    TIER 4

    [INDENT]
    Undying Beast: While raging in animal form you gain immunity to death effects and energy drain. Gains one more use of rage. AP COST: 2 Requires: Primal Beast

    Spirit Bear Charge: Requires bear form Charge forward inflicting +3W and knocking down enemies, reflex save vs DC 15 + Highest of Str/Wis + Trip Bonuses. 15 second cooldown. AP COST: 2


    SEASONS HERALD

    CORES:



    3. Nature's Wellspring: The effects of your shillelagh are doubled. +1 max caster level in your active season
    A) The various bonus effects while raged do not seem to be applying while under the effects of Skaldic Rage from Warchanter but the bonus to constitution from Skaldic Rage stacks on top of the Natures Protector Rage. No added benefits are given while under the effects of the Rage spell

    B) Spinning Ice and Frozen Fury (war chanter) work just fine while in Bear Form...thank you for that!

    C) Ferral Charge (Animal Domain) and Spirit Bear Charge are on a separate cool down...Again, Thank you! This looks like it will allow a fun cleric/druid combination

    D) I like the animation for cleave cracking the earth (I don't recall if that was in the original bear form animations)

    E) Season's Herald doubling of Shillelagh effects don't seem to be working on quarterstaffs. I tested with multiple versions of several quarterstaffs including staff of the seer and Twig of the Giant Mage casting with the enhancement and without the enhancement. Damage increase seems to only be +[W] rather than + 2[W] with or without the Season's Herald Enhancement

  2. #2
    2015 Players Council Claver's Avatar
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    Ghost Pack looks cool..and modestly effective...but the 60 second cool down undermines the fun and usefulness of the attack.....Any chance you could reduce the cool down to 30 seconds (maybe even 20 seconds)

    I like the red "shred" visuals in front of winter wolf attacks...I don't recall seeing those in the past

    ESSENCE OF NATURE…sounds like a botanical shampoo and doesn’t imply critical hits…would you consider calling it something else...maybe Apex Predator


  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claver View Post
    A) The various bonus effects while raged do not seem to be applying while under the effects of Skaldic Rage from Warchanter but the bonus to constitution from Skaldic Rage stacks on top of the Natures Protector Rage. No added benefits are given while under the effects of the Rage spell
    Skaldic Rage isn't "real" Rage because it doesn't block spellcasting nor does it stack with barb Rage or barb enhancements to Rage; so that's probably WAI. Likewise Rage spell is just a morale bonus to STR & CON, not a true Rage effect: again, probably WAI, IMO.
    B) Spinning Ice and Frozen Fury (war chanter) work just fine while in Bear Form...thank you for that!
    That's cool (no pun intended I swear), although in practice I'm not sure how I'd exploit that, since freeze duration is based on bard levels and Swashbuckling presumably still doesn't work in animal form. Hmmm...
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    swashbuckling does not work in animal form. sigh.

    also, cannot attack in wild shape when using a throwing weapon.
    Last edited by cru121; 03-13-2018 at 12:16 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    swashbuckling does not work in animal form. sigh.

    also, cannot attack in wild shape when using a throwing weapon.
    As far as I know these are both WAI. Swashbuckling is classified as a combat style (or at least dependent on a combat style), and Wild Shape attacks should only be using melee weapons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Wise fwom ur gwave.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Even in shapeshifting's current super-buggy state, Swashbuckling has never worked in animal forms (and explicitly says so in the description), so it remains WAI. On live you can take advantage of Skirmisher's "you may use a Buckler and still benefit from the Single Weapon Fighting line of feats" in animal form (since that does not depend on Swashbuckling being active); but since SWF applying to animal forms is going away, I'm not expecting it to do anything post-revamp.

    Melee attacks in animal forms with a ranged or thrown weapon equipped never made sense to me in the first place; and I suspect they were never WAI to begin with. So with the revamp to animal forms being based on your equipped melee weapon, it doesn't surprise me that's going away too.
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    - Occult Slayer rage abilities seem to correctly enhance Bear Rage

    - Bear rage abilities seem to correctly enhance Barbarian Rage

    - Ranger Tempest dual wielding bonus to AC for dual wielding correctly disappears when going into bear form

    - I'm getting a strange sneak attack bonus of 58 to 268 hitpoints of damage on attacks in bear form while dual wielding Famine (dwarven axe) using Con (throw your weight around) on a 5 barbarian/ 12 ranger/ 3 druid. I'm not sure of the source ...seems to be a bug

    - Natures Hunter (Core 4) does not seem to be giving a +1 to critical hits when using Warhammer in Bear form as a level 20 druid using con (throw your weight around)....Bear melee damage feels a bit lackluster

    - The 15% bonus to AC from Beast Unleashed correctly stacks with bonus to AC from Cleric Protection Domain and Warpriest.

    - Warpriest Inflame stacks with Nature's Protector Defense Boost. Ameliorating strike seems to be working properly in Bear Form

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claver View Post
    bear form while dual wielding Famine (dwarven axe)
    Is there any point to dual-wielding these? You're not getting offhand attacks (or shouldn't be); AFAIK the passives don't double-stack.

    As long as you're testing: you wouldn't happen to have made a druid / cleric / barb build with Destruction domain, would you? I'm wondering if cleric spells while Raged still work in bear form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Is there any point to dual-wielding these? You're not getting offhand attacks (or shouldn't be); AFAIK the passives don't double-stack.
    .
    It just happened to be a tempest character who I happened to already have...things don't always work as intended; hence the testing

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Is there any point to dual-wielding these? You're not getting offhand attacks (or shouldn't be); AFAIK the passives don't double-stack.

    As long as you're testing: you wouldn't happen to have made a druid / cleric / barb build with Destruction domain, would you? I'm wondering if cleric spells while Raged still work in bear form.
    Asked on PC thread, response was yes. Should test of course.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    Nature's Warrior:
    5. Howling Frost: Casting Howl of Terror now grants you "Winter Hunt" for 10 seconds which grants +10 melee power and, 25% bonus to spell crit and 50% to spell crit damage to all cold damage spells. This will only occur once every 30 seconds.
    - Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does not modify breath weapons like Dragonborn Cold Breath Weapon or Draconic Incarnation Cold Dragon Breath. If this is WAI please change it to apply to breath weapons as well since it could offer up a fun winter wolf/dragonborn frost breath build to add to the game.

    - Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does not modify the Epic Feat Burst of Glacial Wrath

    - Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does not modify the Draconic Incarnation cold Energy Burst

    - I can confirm that Howling Frost/Winter Hunt does indeed work on the Cold Breath Spell (taking damage up from 200 hp to 400 HP on a crit using a White Dragonborn 20 druid to test without gear); it also seems to be helping damage on the creeping cold SLA

    - There appears to be a problem with Wellspring of Power Feat overwriting or being cancelled by Howling Frost/Winterhunt

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    Armor of Winter: Gain 8 times your wisdom in temporary Hit points that lasts 60 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds, Sp Cost: 12) AP COST: 2 (new – moved spell power and allow it to work in any elemental form/season)
    Armor of Winter temporary Hit Points are only lasting 30 seconds instead of 60 seconds. Half a minute is not nearly enough (consider that Shining Through from Enlightened Spirit lasts significantly longer). Please make sure this is changed to 60 seconds (or longer) as per the description. The Jaws of Winter Icon appears in the Buff Bar

    As an aside, one of my main characters is 13 fire form druid melee/ 2 monk/ 5 warlock. I splashed warlock for access to Shining Through and a Displacement SLA. On paper, I had thought Armor of Winter would be attractive enough to allow me to run the same character as a 18 fire druid/2 monk but after playing around in lamannia I may need to go back to Tier 5 Enlightened Spirit over Tier 5 Seasons Herald. I think you should give Armor of Winter a modest boost...say make the temporary hit points 10X wisdom ) or even 12X wisdom. This would also help offset the weakness of Winter Wolves who may prefer Tier 5 Seasons Herald for hit point survivability @ 12x (@ 60 seconds rather than 30 seconds) and cold damage over the lackluster melee damage from Tier 5 Natures Warrior

    - Jaws of Winter seems to be function properly from my testing...it will be expensive spell point wise to maintain given the short duration

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    Ghost Pack: When Ghost Wolf is triggered the spirits of your pack manifests around you striking nearby enemies for 1d6 bane damage per wilderness lore rank, scales with melee power, and applies confusing them for 5 seconds, no save. Bosses are not affected by the confusion .
    I can confirm after testing multiple characters that Ghost Pack only does 58 hp of damage every single time

    - Stunning Fist DOES NOT work in bear form (and if WAI please change to allow both this and quivering palm to work in animal form...especially following the nerf to monk melee power)

    - Handwraps and monk mountain and fire stance elemental attacks seem to be working in bear form

    - Void Strike, Shadows Can Not Exist Without Light, Fist of Darkness and Reed in the Wind seem to be working properly with hand wraps while in Bear Form
    Last edited by Claver; 03-15-2018 at 10:25 AM.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claver View Post
    - There appears to be a problem with Wellspring of Power Feat overwriting or being cancelled by Howling Frost/Winterhunt
    Could be WAI: I can see the devs thinking Winter Hunt stacking with Wellspring of Power being too OP. If so, though, they should specify the bonus type so we know they're not meant to stack.
    - Stunning Fist DOES NOT work in bear form
    Unfortunately WAI (at least on live): they nerfed Stunning Fist working in animal forms quite a while ago. So I was thinking of dusting off some monk 6 / druid 13 builds which use handwraps (or staves) in elemental form.
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  13. #13
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    Default Updated for Druid 2.0

    Posts below apply to Druid 2.0
    Last edited by Claver; 03-28-2018 at 06:32 AM.

  14. #14
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    Warlock Eldritch Aura works in Bear Form

    Warlock Eldritch burst works in Bear Form and works while Bear Raged but is subject to arcane spell failure from heavy armor

    Warlock displacement SLA works in Bear Form, IS NOT SUBJECT TO SPELL FAILURE for heavy armor, but does not work in Bear Rage

    Warlock Shining Through works in Bear Form but DOES NOT seem to stack with Ursa Protectors +25% hp. I'm fine with this if intended; however, the tool tip indicates Ursa's protector is a competence bonus and Shining Through is a sacred bonus so I would expect them to stack based on the description

    Legendary Dreadnaught Momentum Swing DOES NOT work in bear form but Lay Waste works as does Anvil of Thunder and Masters Blitz

    Throw your Weight Around (Constitution Damage) seems to now be working in bear form with War Hammers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claver View Post
    Warlock displacement SLA works in Bear Form, IS NOT SUBJECT TO SPELL FAILURE for heavy armor, but does not work in Bear Rage
    Displacement doesn't have a somatic component. It should never have asf.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claver View Post
    Warlock displacement SLA works in Bear Form, IS NOT SUBJECT TO SPELL FAILURE for heavy armor, but does not work in Bear Rage
    FWIW, arcane SLAs have never been subject to ASF so this is WAI.
    Warlock Shining Through works in Bear Form but DOES NOT seem to stack with Ursa Protectors +25% hp. I'm fine with this if intended; however, the tool tip indicates Ursa's protector is a competence bonus and Shining Through is a sacred bonus so I would expect them to stack based on the description
    Plus Shining Thru is temp HPs while Ursa is permanent; well, "permanent" in the sense it boosts your max HPs as long as you're in bear form and stance is active. AFAIK Shining Thru stacks with other such perm HP bonuses (e.g., Tenacious Defense), so it ought to stack with Ursa.
    Legendary Dreadnaught Momentum Swing DOES NOT work in bear form but Lay Waste works as does Anvil of Thunder and Masters Blitz
    FYI, this is also consistent with live. For whatever reason, you can use Lay Waste and the tier-4 LD special attacks in animal forms, but not Momentum Swing. Not sure I understand the game logic there but whatever.

    Also on live: Headman's Chop works in animal forms but Pulverizer does not. IIUC, both should work in animal forms post-U38...emphasis on "should."
    Throw your Weight Around (Constitution Damage) seems to now be working in bear form with War Hammers
    Yay! I tested DEX to dmg (Aerenal Grace) last time and it worked; didn't have time to test other stat-to-dmg options, though.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 03-28-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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    - Cleric Domain Destruction DOES NOT allow casting cleric spells memorized using druid slots while in Bear Rage

    - Cleric Domain Destruction DOES allow casting cleric spells memorized using CLERIC slots while in Bear Rage

    For example, the cleric spell "cure light wounds" can be cast while bear raged IF that spell was memorized using the cleric slot. If the 2nd level "druid" spell "cure light wounds" was memorized using a druid slot it would not work in Bear Rage

    This was true for all druid spells I tested that have a cleric counterpart including, freedom of movement, death ward, lesser restoration, flame strike, true seeing, bulls strength and protection spells

  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claver View Post
    - Cleric Domain Destruction DOES allow casting cleric spells memorized using CLERIC slots while in Bear Rage
    Yeah, I tested that last time too: works with both barb Rage and Rage of the Beast, which seemed to be interchangeable.

    And this is consistent with how Destruction domain has worked since it came out; i.e., it only applies to cleric spells, not other caster classes, even when it's the same spell.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 03-28-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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  19. #19
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    This may have been noted by others elsewhere but it bears repeating (for druid 2.0)

    - Taking Greater Rage (barbarian 11th level) will apply + 6 Constitution when activating a bear rage

    - Hardy Rage + 3 Constitution applies when activating bear rage

    - Furious Rage works in bear form

    - Pain touch works in bear form

    - Guarding bond works in bear form

    - Supreme Cleave works in bear form

    - Slaughter works in bear form*

    - Earsmash works in bear form*

    * I have suspicions that the damage on slaughter and earsmash may be off. Slaughter is a 10(W) attack; Earsmash is a 1.5(w) attack. Both seemed to be doing about the same damage while in bear form. Just an observation...I didn't drill down into the combat log or switch out different weapons or toggle shape change to confirm

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyfiel View Post
    Displacement doesn't have a somatic component. It should never have asf.
    This is a good comment and I think it is helpful to the community.

    For my part, I'm attempting to test and report what works (even if it WAI) and what does not work (even if not working is WAI) with an emphasis on bear form.

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