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  1. #1
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    Default Basic Elven AA FvS build questions

    So I want to make an FvS past life, and I’m considering picking up a bow with knowledge of battle, and getting paralyzing arrows. My goal is to do control spells with some archery on the side.

    Now, my first question I pose to you is: will I need Bow Str to get wisdom to damage from the FvS ability?

  2. #2
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    So I want to make an FvS past life, and I’m considering picking up a bow with knowledge of battle, and getting paralyzing arrows. My goal is to do control spells with some archery on the side.

    Now, my first question I pose to you is: will I need Bow Str to get wisdom to damage from the FvS ability?
    As long as you choose the right deity no you don't need bow Strength. Also, you can pick up zen archery for wisdom to hit (both fighter and monk can get this as a bonus feat)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    As long as you choose the right deity no you don't need bow Strength. Also, you can pick up zen archery for wisdom to hit (both fighter and monk can get this as a bonus feat)
    Well, FvS get Wisdom to hit innately. Part of the reason I was going to try this is maxing our my wis for DCs on paralyzing arrows and east wis to hit and damage.

  4. #4
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    Knowledge of Battle: Your faith allows you to use your Wisdom bonus for to-hit and damage purposes with your deities' Favored Weapon if it is higher than your Strength bonus. This benefit only applies if your Favored Soul level is equal to or greater than half of your total Heroic Character level.
    No need for Zen archery unless you want to be centered with bows. No need for bow strength or aerenal grace or anything else. Knowledge of battle covers hit and damage.

    This lets you do a 14/42/24 split pretty easily (elf/arcane archer/warsoul). Or if you have 1 racial AP 16/41/24.
    Selvera: Half elf Fvs 20; Healer archer with a bit more of a damage build then usual
    Jen: Half Elf Fvs 20/Epic 10; Healer Archer with a more supportive build then usual
    Mayve: Tiefling Sorc 16; Just a pastlife for an alt

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Now, my first question I pose to you is: will I need Bow Str to get wisdom to damage from the FvS ability?
    Knowledge of Battle + Silver Flame deity provides WIS to-hit and damage with bows natively; no other feats nor enhancements are necessary. However, remember you must keep at least half your class levels FvS at all times in order for KoB to apply. So if you happened to level, e.g., rgr 6 / FvS 4, you would lose KoB's effect until leveled to rgr 6 / FvS 6.

    Also pay attention to DEX pre-reqs for ranged feats: e.g., DEX 17 for Manyshot, DEX 19 from Improved Precise Shot. So it's not like you can just dump-stat DEX if you're going the WIS FvS route on an AA build.
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  6. #6
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    Hmm... do tomes count towards stat requirement soft feats? Might put my next one towards dex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selvera View Post
    No need for Zen archery unless you want to be centered with bows. No need for bow strength or aerenal grace or anything else. Knowledge of battle covers hit and damage.

    This lets you do a 14/42/24 split pretty easily (elf/arcane archer/warsoul). Or if you have 1 racial AP 16/41/24.
    I think you need more in Elf. Doesn’t it require 3 in arcanum, which is 6 points, making the total 15.

    Is war soul useful for an AA?

  7. #7
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    Tomes do count for feats. Some of my builds worked around picking up the feat as soon as the tome increased to a level which would allow it.

    Here's an example of a 14/42/24 split.

    You don't need 3 points in arcanum; how prereqs work is that you need an equal level of the prereq to get the next tier; since you only need 1 level of elf:AA, you only need 1 level of arcanum.

    As for is Warsoul useful? Yes. Is it good? No. The split I detail below wastes no AP in warsoul, as all the things I take are useful to a wisdom-based AA. However, warsoul enhancements are often a little overpriced for what they give (should cost less AP or give more) and Warsoul has less "super abilities" in it then many other combat trees (examples Kensai, Knight of the Challice, Swashbuckler, Tempest, Vistanii).

    But; it's better then harper for a build like this (one which doesn't use int), and Vistanii doesn't fit a longbow. So either you'd have to multiclass for a better combat tree to spend 24 points in; or split the points between elf and warsoul. The split listed below is one fairly optimal option for non-multiclass. Taking more points in elf to pick up "Skill" is another option to consider.

    Obviously; if you go into warsoul; you'd make sure to follow the silver flame so that all those righteous weapon enhancements give +1 hit/damage with bows. It's also recommended even if you don't take righteous weapons; since fvs get free damage with their favored weapons as they level.

    Another option for the elf-tree split is to put 3 points in enchantment lore for +1 DC on para arrows; but this would likely require dropping some hit/damage enhancements or some warsoul enhancements. Or just having more racial AP.

    Fvs AA

    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Elf-Arcane Archer (42 AP)
    • Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer
      1. Conjure Arrows, Flaming Arrows, Awareness I
      2. Force Arrows III, Elemental Damage
      3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Wisdom
      4. Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage, Wisdom
      5. Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Elemental Damage, Runebow

    War Soul (24 AP)
    • Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary
      1. Divine Will III, Toughness III, Righteous Weapons
      2. Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons
      3. Righteous Weapons, Wisdom
      4. Righteous Weapons, Wisdom

    Elf (14 AP)
    • Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II
      1. Aerenal Weapon Training
      2. Aerenal Weapon Training, Arcanum I
      3. Arcane Archer
    Selvera: Half elf Fvs 20; Healer archer with a bit more of a damage build then usual
    Jen: Half Elf Fvs 20/Epic 10; Healer Archer with a more supportive build then usual
    Mayve: Tiefling Sorc 16; Just a pastlife for an alt

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Hmm... do tomes count towards stat requirement soft feats?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvera View Post
    War Soul (24 AP)
    • Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary
      1. Divine Will III, Toughness III, Righteous Weapons
      2. Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons
      3. Righteous Weapons, Wisdom
      4. Righteous Weapons, Wisdom
    Unless the description is incorrect, Divine Will only works with melee weapons.

    It's been a long time since I played a FvS; does the Archon cause Scourge stacks to proc? If so, I was thinking investing AoV instead of WS might be an interesting alternative.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 02-20-2018 at 02:14 PM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    Hmm, I hadn't noticed the melee requirement of divine will; which would remove one of the best abilities in the tree; but I still think AoV doesn't offer very much to an AA unless you're trying to weave in spells into your rotation. Even if archon does trigger scourge; you're looking at a maximum of +54 spellpower from the tree while fully stacked; and the build was supposed to be using para arrows mostly.

    Meanwhile I can't really see anything else in the tree worth taking on an arcane archer (except wand+scroll mastery, and even that I consider less valuable on a healing class); since bows are already considered an implement for an arcane archer; and the rest seems to be spell pen/spell crit/metamagic stuff which doesn't help imbues. I suppose shield of condemnation isn't terrible; but the goal is to not get hit.

    It's worth testing divine will to see if it does work (why didn't they just make it for favored weapons?); and if it doesn't, I'd drop the points in Inflame or just multiclass a few levels of fighter to pick up better damage through the kensai tree.
    Selvera: Half elf Fvs 20; Healer archer with a bit more of a damage build then usual
    Jen: Half Elf Fvs 20/Epic 10; Healer Archer with a more supportive build then usual
    Mayve: Tiefling Sorc 16; Just a pastlife for an alt

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvera View Post
    I still think AoV doesn't offer very much to an AA unless you're trying to weave in spells into your rotation.
    That is what I inferred from the OP:
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    My goal is to do control spells with some archery on the side.
    I don't know how many FvS lvls they're planning; but if going for a mixed ranged / caster hybrid, that suggests focusing on FvS and probably some metamagics / Spell Focus feats, rather than going all-in on archery like builds like this.
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    Hmm you didn’t invest very much at all

    THERE Is a bit of a sliding scale discussion going on for the build. I’m finishing a wizard past life for this character and want to try out FvS so that class is for sure.
    The ideas currently are:
    1) the one presented
    2) folding in 6 ranger levels for better archery and more free feats at the expense of spells and HP.
    3) doing a melee cha build with 3 levels of paladin because I’m tired of being the squishy one.

    1 seems like it could have some value for for feedback though.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Hmm you didn’t invest very much at all

    THERE Is a bit of a sliding scale discussion going on for the build. I’m finishing a wizard past life for this character and want to try out FvS so that class is for sure.
    The ideas currently are:
    1) the one presented
    2) folding in 6 ranger levels for better archery and more free feats at the expense of spells and HP.
    3) doing a melee cha build with 3 levels of paladin because I’m tired of being the squishy one.

    1 seems like it could have some value for for feedback though.
    If you are ranged you shouldn't care too much about being squishy. If you are reapering, 3 levels of paladin is unlikely to save you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selvera View Post
    Hmm, I hadn't noticed the melee requirement of divine will; which would remove one of the best abilities in the tree; but I still think AoV doesn't offer very much to an AA unless you're trying to weave in spells into your rotation. Even if archon does trigger scourge; you're looking at a maximum of +54 spellpower from the tree while fully stacked; and the build was supposed to be using para arrows mostly.
    This is a bit of a necro, but I think there are a few issues here:

    1. There isn't much else to take. These builds tend to involve 12+ levels of FvS and then Monk/Fighter/Ranger levels. Ranger offers maybe a point in DWS before you start struggling to find a good use for AP. If you're taking enough Monk levels for 10k, then 2 levels in Fighter isn't going to get you much but some fairly trivial bonuses. From Monk, you can probably justify 10 - 20 points (passive ki regen, 25% incorporeality) - but these aren't really all that strong for a build that wants to stand far, far away from enemies and lock them down.

    2. It's not just Scourge. Let's say we've got 21 points in AoV (I'd probably go with Crown on a grouping build, but 21 is minimum for Archon). That's +21 (AoV) +30 (Scourge) + 30 (Blood and Radiance) + 20 (Empyrean Magic) and +10% critical (Empyrean Magic) - potentially +100 Positive spellpower on a build that can cast Heal. In terms of pure damage output, let's assume you take Feywild and use Force Arrows. That would be around +40 additional damage per shot from your magical damage from the various AoV and Archon-proc'd abilities. If you really wanted to push the envelope you could use Fire Arrows and Scion of Fire, but I don't think this is a particularly sensible approach. And, of course, the Archon itself does add damage.

    3. Wisdom-centric archers are very different from non-Wisdom-centric archers. Consider Smiting/Banishing arrows. On a conventional Arcane Archer, you don't take these abilities because you have a 1-in-400 chance of instant kill. On a Wisdom-based Archer, it's more like 1-in-20. With Paralyzing Arrows, the conventional Arcane Archer needs to leave that imbue on all the time because they have such a low chance of succeeding. On a Wisdom-based Archer, the first shot is probably going to paralyze the entire crowd - letting you switch to Force/Elemental Arrows to kill enemies. Your Wisdom-based Archer also has tools like Greater Command that can give you options beyond waiting for a lucky save failure.

    4. In a group setting, you'll probably be called upon to heal from time to time. Getting another 10 temporary spell points periodically and potentially reducing the cost of Quicken can be a big help in this role.

    After a bit of tinkering, where I'll probably go once I get around to committing a full life to it will be something like below. Instead of trying to grab minor boosts to ranged damage, I take advantage of the fact that it's a full-fledged spellcaster with (somewhat) meaningful DCs and serious amounts of healing.

    Code:
    12/6/2 Favored Soul/Monk/Ranger
    Lawful Neutral Half-Elf
    
    
    Level Order
    
    1. Ranger. . . . . 6. Monk . . . . . 11. Favored Soul . 16. Monk
    2. Favored Soul . .7. Favored Soul . 12. Monk. . . . . .17. Favored Soul
    3. Favored Soul . .8. Monk. . . . . .13. Favored Soul. .18. Favored Soul
    4. Monk. . . . . . 9. Favored Soul. .14. Monk . . . . . 19. Favored Soul
    5. Favored Soul . 10. Ranger. . . . .15. Favored Soul. .20. Favored Soul
    
    
    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . .8. . . .+7. . . .4: WIS
    Dexterity . . . 15. . . .+7. . . .8: WIS
    Constitution. . 12. . . .+7. . . 12: WIS
    Intelligence. . 15. . . .+7. . . 16: WIS
    Wisdom. . . . . 18. . . .+7. . . 20: WIS
    Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+7. . . 24: WIS
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: WIS
    
    Skills
    . . . . . R .F .F .M. F. M .F .M. F. R .F .M. F. M .F .M. F. F. F. F
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5. 6 .7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 4 . . 1. 2 . . . . . . . . 6 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Heal. . . 4 . . . . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .2 .2. 2. 2 .2 .1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Spellcr . . .3 .3 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Diplo . . . . . . .1. 1. 4 .1 .4. 1. . . . . . . . . . 2 . . 2. 3. 4. 23
    Spot. . . 4 . . . .3. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . .2. . . . . . . 19
    UMD . . . 2 .½ .½ .½. ½. ½ .½ .½. ½. ½ .½ .½. ½. ½ .½ .½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
    Search. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Tumble. . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .32 .4 .5 .7. 5. 7 .5 .7. 5. 9 .6 .8. 6. 8 .6 .8. 6. 6. 7. 7
    
    
    Feats
    
    .1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
    .3. . . . : Precise Shot
    .4 Monk . : Zen Archery
    .6. . . . : Quicken Spell
    .6 Monk . : Precision
    .9. . . . : Spell Focus: Enchantment
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
    15. . . . : Manyshot
    16 Monk . : Ten Thousand Stars
    18. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
    21 Epic . : Master of Forms
    24 Epic . : Grandmaster of Forms
    26 Destiny: Guardian Angel
    27 Epic . : Combat Archery
    28 Destiny: Doubleshot
    29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior
    30 Epic . : Wellspring of Power
    30 Legend : Scion of: Feywild
    
    .1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
    
    .8 Monk . : Path of Harmonious Balance
    
    .1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    .3 FavSoul: Knowledge of Battle
    13 FavSoul: Stout of Heart
    
    .9 FavSoul: Energy Absorption: Acid
    18 FavSoul: Energy Absorption: Fire
    
    .2 Deity. : Follower of: Silver Flame
    11 Deity. : Silver Flame Exorcism
    
    
    Spells
    
    Favored Soul
    1. Divine Favor, Nightshield, Command, Remove Fear
    2. Resist Energy, Hold Person, Lesser Restoration, Find Traps
    3. Water Breathing, Remove Disease, Remove Curse, Cure Serious Wounds
    4. Freedom of Movement, Death Ward, Restoration
    5. True Seeing, Greater Command
    6. Heal
    Enhancements (80 AP) Elf-Arcane Archer (41 AP)
    • Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Mystical Archer
      1. Conjure Arrows, Frost Arrows
      2. Force Arrows III, Elemental Damage
      3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Wisdom
      4. Banishing Arrows, Paralyzing Arrows, Smiting Arrows, Elemental Damage, Wisdom
      5. Moonbow, Arrow of Slaying, Elemental Damage, Runebow
    Angel of Vengeance (21 AP)
    • Font of Power, Shield of Condemnation, Aura of Menace, Summon Archon
      1. Scourge III, Animus III
      2. Just Reward III, Efficient Quicken III
      3. Wisdom
    Half-Elf (14 AP)
    • Versatile Nature, Human Wisdom, Human Damage Boost
      1. Diplomatic Immunity, Improved Dilettante: Rogue
      2. Improved Dilettante: Rogue, Arcanum I
      3. Arcane Archer
    Henshin Mystic (3 AP)
    • Riddle of Fire
      1. Way of the: Elegant Crane
    Deepwood Stalker (1 AP)
    • Far Shot
    Destiny (24 AP) Divine Crusader
    1. Interrogation, Purge the Wicked, Wisdom
    2. Consecration III, Wisdom
    3. Sacred Ground, Empyrean Magic, Wisdom
    4. Crusade, Wisdom
    5. Castigation, Celestial Champion, Wisdom
    Twists of Fate (31 fate points)
    1. Echoes of Primal (Tier 4 Fatesinger)
    2. School Specialist: Enchantment (Tier 2 Magister)
    3. Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
    4. Enlightenment (Tier 1 Flowers)
    5. Dance of Flowers (Tier 1 Flowers)

  14. #14
    Community Member deathboon's Avatar
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    I'm going to resuscitate this thread again, because the builds im seeing all seem to miss the boat. To me, the hotness of FVS AA is using Terror Arrows to drive enemies back and forth across blade barriers. To that end you want to build toward improving the DC of Terror Arrows and Blade Barriers as well as jacking up your force damage for your barriers.
    To that end, Elf, AA, and AoV are perfect (if you want to get silly good, a greensteel sundering ooze bow will make it super fun from 12-20 especially with a few druid past lives).

    Elestria, Zayvian, Primogeniter, Druish Princess

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    Quote Originally Posted by deathboon View Post
    I'm going to resuscitate this thread again, because the builds im seeing all seem to miss the boat. To me, the hotness of FVS AA is using Terror Arrows to drive enemies back and forth across blade barriers. To that end you want to build toward improving the DC of Terror Arrows and Blade Barriers as well as jacking up your force damage for your barriers.
    To that end, Elf, AA, and AoV are perfect (if you want to get silly good, a greensteel sundering ooze bow will make it super fun from 12-20 especially with a few druid past lives).
    Paralyze and Pin are significantly better than anything blade barrier will ever do. I ran a 12FvS/6monk/2ftr for a long time. 14 in helf, 41 in aa, and most of the rest were in vistani at the time before the divine tree updates. After the updates I put the points into warsoul for the heal shot and less points wasted to get the 10% doubleshot. Ran in Divine Crusader to keep the high wisdom and build versatility intact and it worked amazingly well. Fairly easy to gear, great spot healing, great group heals with sacred ground, and something like 250% doubleshot with manyshot and zeal running so the DPS was far from bad. Obviously ran in ultimate ocean stance and didn't bother with ninja spy so stance was enough passive ki regen to keep 10k always ready. No fail crowd control with 90+ wisdom was very nice and the build never really felt out of place in any group.

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