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Thread: Reaper Sorcerer

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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Default Reaper Sorcerer

    *Updated build to cope with R10 DC. Now making the thread title worth it. On post #33 I have the first version where I was mixing more DPS at cost of DC, and the reasons why I did it.*

    The idea here is to be a DC caster, like a wizard but with the sorcerer advatanges. Sorcerer is tight on feats and have a bit of trouble with spellpen, but I think it's better than wizard currently. Also in my previous experience playing pale master for years, sorcerer is less durable. But without the undead form, that is pratically inviable for reaper unless you have easy time to get a good healers to harm you (not the case for most people), this difference doesn't exist anymore (what is left is the reflex save difference that wizards get).

    Asimar is the best race overall if you have the racial points to spend on it. It will loose 1 point of CHA, but will have the ability to boost it higher than any other race for limited time thanks to divine resolve, it has the lays and 10% hp, and gets more spellpen. Dragonborn is solid because it gets more CHA and the same spellpen. My build is a drow because it looks better and I don't have racial past lives.


    Starting stats - Max CHA rest CON.

    Feats:
    This is not what I used to lv up. See the lv up info below.

    normal: 1 sf necro - 3 wiz pl - 6 quicken - 9 heighten - 12 spellpen - 15 completionist - 18 greater spellpen
    epic: 21 epic spellpen - 24 embolden - 27 gsf necro - 30 esf necro.
    destiny: 26 toughness - 28 elusive target - 29 frog
    scion: 30 shadowfell

    *I don't have pl wiz and epic spell focus necro. Currently I'm runnning with ruin and Greater Ruin to farm Amber temple so these feats are very useful to kill deathwarded stuff and reapers if you are soloing. When I ever get my wings, and that will take at least one year depending on my real life, I'll change ruins to max DC again.

    Destiny: EA
    Max CHA and spellpen. Rest do wathever. Twist Necromancy Specialist (requires buying it in a previous life), Meld Into Darkness (seriously, twist it. Can't stress enough how this is better than more CHA that would give half a DC. You're a better caster with Meld to play more agressive than with half more DC), 3 CHA.

    I do twsit Piercing spellcraft because I am a drow so I don't have spellpenetration coming from arcanum in the racial tree. I make it up with the twist. If you are wondering why I am a drow, that is because I needed the past life.

    Action Points:
    41 Vistani
    24 EK - medium armor + CHA + arcane barrier
    6 Racial - 2 CHA
    9 Falconry - 1 CHA, 6 PRR, sprint boost. Use harper if you don't have falconry.

    GEAR
    Commentarys on red for those who don't have the harder to get raid gear.

    head I use Epic Deific Diadem for the proc. I'm not sure this is helping much. If you have a reaper helm, it's the best option of course. If you don't have, I'd go with LGS hp set, closing it with either goggles, gloves or cloak
    neck slaver1: con 17 - resist 14 - quality con 4 - spellcraft 22
    cloak cc: Wisdom 15 - dodge 15 - insightful prr 18
    belt slaver2: sheltering 45 - magnetism 185 - quality CHA 4
    ring1 Legendary Spinneret: Spell Lore 15 - Quality Potency 32 - Quality Spell Focus Mastery 2 - Spell Penetration 7 - Green Augment Slot
    ring2 Legendary Skulled Ring: Necromancy 8 - Wizardry 412 - Green Augment Slot
    gloves Bluescale Guides: Efficient Embolden II - Magical Efficiency 10 - Profane Well Rounded 2 - Green Slot - Yellow Slot. I don't have this yet. So I use Legendary Gauntlets of Innate Arcanum instead.
    boots Legendary Softsole Slippers: Ghostly - Perform 22 - Insightful Charisma 9 - Green Augment Slot
    trinket Symbol of the Slave Lords: True Seeing - Inightful con 8 - Lesser Displacement - Green Slot - Blue Slot
    bracers slaver3 false life 68 - devotion 185 - quality PRR 11 - quality fortificaiton 45
    body shadowscale armor. Because i don't have the Bluscale Guides, I use Legendary Coat of the Traveler
    goggles Legendary Symphonic Lenses - charisma 19 - mobility - Blue Augment Slot. Again, because I use the arcanum gloves instead of the Bluescale, here I use LGS.
    Hand 1 Nightmother scepter: focus 7 - insight focus 4 - spellpen 7 - insight spellpen 4 - sentient bonuses
    Hand 2 LGS 30 amp - 50 amp - exceptional cha 2 - Legendary Affirmation



    CHA breakdown
    27 + 8 tome + 2 race + 2 EK + 4 vistani + 1 Falconry/Harper + 2 completionist + 2 ship + 2 yugo + 19 item + 9 insight item + 2 exceptional item + 2 profane item + 4 quality item + 2 artifact item (set) + 8 angel + 3 twist + 2 remnant + 2 sentient + 5 reaper = 108 CHA.

    Necromancy DC
    10 + 9 lv + 49 cha + 8 item + 4 insight item + 1 profane item + 2 quality item + 2 augment + 1 wiz pl + 4 scion + 3 angel + 3 magister + 4 sentient set + 2 embolden + 1 ship + 4 slaver set + 3 focus feats + 4 reaper = 114 necromancy + 2 sacred (varies, but usually at least one stack is up) = 116.

    Racial completionist would get +5 cha (4 inherent and 1 from harper), for 116 necro standing/118 with deific procs. You can drop epic spell pen for 117/119 or adjust the gear to fit +20 item. Max with reaper helm is 118 standing I belive.


    Spellpen
    20 + 8 feat + 9 pl + 8 item + 4 insight item + 3 EA + 1 ship + 1 filigree + 5 reaper = 59. If you are aasimar or dragonborn you get +3 from racial tree = 62. This is good for most content. I personally run around with a spellpen twist that costs me 1 CHA, so to make it even I don't buy all the CHA in EA, I get reborn in Light Instead, so cost 1 DC at the end of the day. Again that is because I run a lot of amber and failing spellpen check on slaad is annoying. And because I am a drow. By the way, it seems otto's sphere of dancing is not subject to spell resistance currently, so I abused it when I was doing tethy.

    Other Schools DC
    10 + 9 lv + 49 cha + 7 item + 4 inisght item + 1 profane item + 2 quality item + 2 augment + 1 pl + 2 scion + 3 angel + 4 slaver set + 2 embolden + 1 ship + 4 sentient set + 4 reaper = 105 enchantment. Apply +3 for evo and conjuration, but I didn't even bother to slot augment for them. I don't have room for PK, so illusion is irrelevant.

    Some defense info

    So if you want to know how the defenses will be, well it is not as good as a warlock of course. I am with 1400 HP, 12 dodge, 171 PRR and 117 MRR outside of reaper, and I don't have the 4th core in Grim Barricade yet. So except about 1800 HP and 190 PRR inside reaper with investiment with this gear, with 1k more temporary from affirmation every min. You can also try to fit LGS set, that would cost DC somewhere, and that is what I was going to do because I don't have the bluescale guides yet, so this means gloves, goggles and hat are places that I could try to fit the 2 LGS pieces, and the other would go to 19 CHA item. But since the build is working allright without it, I prefered to wait the expansion before I spend codex runes, or if I ever pull a bluescale. The saves are garbage, but I don't feel they're something that is very important or are getting me killed. Currently 67/52/65 fort/ref/will with just GH.

    After all, you best defenses are wings. Abuse wings. And jeweled cloak - always equip before an encounter where it will be useful or that you don't know what's going to happen. Also meld, and mist stalker, and CC. So the correct use of these things make you a better caster than someone with higher numbers in the sheet. A really big advantage that sorc has over wiz is that it casts faster, and that improves your capacity to do stuff without getting killed.

    Spells

    This looks like the optimal spell selection for the build's purpose. I don't feel like missing anything. Of course, this was not what I used to lv up, but it's the high reaper endgame setup. All these spells are used, except hipno, probably the most useful thing at lv 1 you could slot there would be merfolk's blessing, but I wouldn't change any other, maybe fireball, soundblast or the eletric dot, but there is no point because there isn't better options really.



    How do you level up this

    I did level up with this feat order:
    1 maximize - 3 empower - 6 quicken - 9 heighten - 12 spellpen - 15 completionist - 18 greater spellpen - 21 epic spellpen - 24 embolden. Before taking level 27 I change maximize for sf necro. So at level 27 I take gsf necro. Then esf necro at 30. Then another feat swap is done, changing empower for past life wizard.

    You get a free feat swap by completing the Hall of The Mark quest in the market. So you can use this to change maximize to spell focus necromancy. The other feat swap is done by using a Flawless Siberys Dragonshard or Astral Shards. You can also swap it out before level 17, so that it will cost you an Exceptional Siberys Dragonshards instead. You can also just skip empower and take the past life feat earlier, so that only 1 feat swap is done, without cost.

    The metamagics are used fully only for SLAs. For the other spells I run with all but empower. For this reason if you want to save your Flawless Siberys, swapping empower out before lv 17 is interesting because at this level the SLAs are becoming weak and not that useful anymore, while your sp pool is larger and larger allowing more use of high lv nukes (basically chain and DBF). I go with fire as main tree all the way from 1 to 29. For lvs 1 to 9 I use earth as second tree. When at 10 Ball Lightning kicks in, I change the secondary tree for air, keeping main as fire. I continue to do that until cap, when I change to fully DC zero DPS build.

    I do use a Blood of Dragons when I hit 30 and change to DC. You can slowly change the spells for free as well. If you have Mass Hold that is what is needed to alreay be useful on high skulls endgame, so there isn't hurry to swap the nukes out.

    In any case, sorc is godly at heroics, I went literally on running speed. I just added this section to the post to clarify about the feats.
    Last edited by Ellihor; 03-05-2019 at 07:43 PM.
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    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    Looks pretty strong. What level are you now? Hows your boss dmg? Was thinking of trying something like this. I got a deep gnome illusionist that im getting the last life deep gnome right now and trash clean up is ridonculous but trying to kill a boss will make you want to claw your eyes out. Thinking sorc would be bettwr with bigger sp pool and more spell power and good slas.
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    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Solid, sorc is great DC caster / controller.

    You can't get 4 charisma from Harper.
    I'd get Enlarge, even ditched Maximize for that and don't care for Ruins.
    Twisted Meld is a must for tough pulls.

    For "nuking" there's belt from Sunrise.
    And yeah, I went 4 piece Otto + 3 x whatever charisma eventually.
    Last edited by Wipey; 02-12-2018 at 10:41 AM.

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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    Looks pretty strong. What level are you now? Hows your boss dmg? Was thinking of trying something like this. I got a deep gnome illusionist that im getting the last life deep gnome right now and trash clean up is ridonculous but trying to kill a boss will make you want to claw your eyes out. Thinking sorc would be bettwr with bigger sp pool and more spell power and good slas.
    I didn't cap yet. This is theory. I am curious how much more DC wizards are getting. Maybe will run the numbers later, and for warlock too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wipey View Post
    You can't get 4 charisma from Harper.
    Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wipey View Post
    I'd get Enlarge, even ditched Maximize for that and don't care for Ruins.
    Twisted Meld is a must for tough pulls.

    For "nuking" there's belt from Sunrise.
    And yeah, I went 4 piece Otto + 3 x whatever charisma eventually.
    Well, yeah, but I still wish to be useful to DPS at mid/low skulls. I was thinking it's worth getting energy burst and meld at the cost of 1 DC, or try to even that point out somehow if energy burst doesn't look useful. I don't have the RSO gloves anyways and it can take a while to get, so while that will use Litany + Arcanum gloves, that looses 1 CHA so perfect to balance dropping one CHA twist to get meld.
    Last edited by Ellihor; 02-12-2018 at 06:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    Why not?
    Charisma is available in the cores, but the ability selectors up in the tree are Dex/Int only.

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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdfghhjkl View Post
    Charisma is available in the cores, but the ability selectors up in the tree are Dex/Int only.
    Oh right. Too used to playing a wizard didn't even think about that.
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    It looks great. You appear to be double dipping with the reaper cha boosting both your cha and dc. Still a great dc even without it. My issue with sorc is the low mrr combined with low reflex save without armor. It means taking a lot of magic damage in a robe, but some people like Sergod manage to deal with it where I can’t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    Thinking sorc would be bettwr with bigger sp pool and more spell power and good slas.
    Archmage SLAs are better due to being force, having no caster level cap, and being AoE at T5. It's why wizards outnumber sorcs 3:1 or so.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-13-2018 at 01:58 PM.

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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    It looks great. You appear to be double dipping with the reaper cha boosting both your cha and dc. Still a great dc even without it. My issue with sorc is the low mrr combined with low reflex save without armor. It means taking a lot of magic damage in a robe, but some people like Sergod manage to deal with it where I can’t.
    Yeah I was running the math and it seems warlock gets more DC. From enhancements it's 2 more from capstone, 1 from SE and 3 from TS. So 5, less 3 from spells capping at 6, they can get 2 DC more then sorc, and 1 spellpen. Combined with the capstone I'm thinking it's overall better to be a warlock. I should try this for a while and see how it feels. Btw on this build I'll be using medium armor, proficiency from EK tree. It's also possible to use heavy with 0% ASF, but without proficiency so I'm not sure if after all it's better than using medium with proficiency.

    About the reaper bonus, I'm taking the CHA number of public area to make the DC math, that's why at end I add it twice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    Yeah I was running the math and it seems warlock gets more DC. From enhancements it's 2 more from capstone, 1 from SE and 3 from TS. So 5, less 3 from spells capping at 6, they can get 2 DC more then sorc, and 1 spellpen. Combined with the capstone I'm thinking it's overall better to be a warlock. I should try this for a while and see how it feels. Btw on this build I'll be using medium armor, proficiency from EK tree. It's also possible to use heavy with 0% ASF, but without proficiency so I'm not sure if after all it's better than using medium with proficiency.

    About the reaper bonus, I'm taking the CHA number of public area to make the DC math, that's why at end I add it twice.
    I think both are good. The biggest benefit warlock gets which hardly ever gets mentioned is the devour the soul capstone which is an instakill that goes against will save and works on undead. I find that so useful. The finger SLA isn't too shabby either.

    The tier 5 TS school focus doesn't offer necromancy so it's only +1 from TS unless you are counting the temporary +2 from tainted spellcasting which is 20 seconds with a 60 second cooldown. But I can't see taking tier 5 TS over SE for just 1 DC.

    The big advantage of sorc is the big spell point pool and the ability to fit in both energy drain and enervation along with a few other spells warlock can't get or can't fit in. Medium armor makes sense. They changed the way PRR works at some point and under the new rules you get no PRR bonus if you aren't proficient. With the low BAB of sorc there is very little difference anyhow and you get full MRR with medium armor.

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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I think both are good. The biggest benefit warlock gets which hardly ever gets mentioned is the devour the soul capstone which is an instakill that goes against will save and works on undead. I find that so useful. The finger SLA isn't too shabby either.

    The tier 5 TS school focus doesn't offer necromancy so it's only +1 from TS unless you are counting the temporary +2 from tainted spellcasting which is 20 seconds with a 60 second cooldown. But I can't see taking tier 5 TS over SE for just 1 DC.
    Yeah that capstone is reeeally good. That's the biggest drive towards warlock, speacilly in the new content. Evards is great cc too. Nice catch on the TS. I haven't ever made a DC warlock past 20, except a few tests in Lamma, so I totally rushed when reading the wiki. So the DC is equal if you take tier 5 in TS, or 1 less than sorc if you take in SE. And finger/circle is probably not going to be heightened on a warlock build, so those are more 1 DC less. Also can't fit in circle, finger and undeath to death, and have to choose between otto's irresistible + disco or pwk + mass charm. Do you find yourself having issue with spellpoints on reaper?
    Last edited by Ellihor; 02-14-2018 at 08:24 AM.
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    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    Dragonborn seems to be the best race overall because it gets more CHA and spellpen. Asimar will loose 1 point of CHA, but will have the ability to boost it higher than any other race for limited time thanks to divine resolve. If you happen to be a racial completionist, I belive Aasimar is the best choice because of ascendent bond (not sure if it conflicts with EA stances tought) - I don't think the 10% spell point cost makes worth using the elemental form in reaper anyways because you're not doing any DPS and it looks ugly.
    Warforged misses out on a fair amount of CHA, but it has Reconstruct. Bladeforged has two Reconstructs and you can LR out of that Paladin level. Yes, the DC will be lower, but that's a lot of self healing that no other race's arcane casters get to have. Any thoughts on the massive boost in survivability compared to the higher DCs?
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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Warforged misses out on a fair amount of CHA, but it has Reconstruct. Bladeforged has two Reconstructs and you can LR out of that Paladin level. Yes, the DC will be lower, but that's a lot of self healing that no other race's arcane casters get to have. Any thoughts on the massive boost in survivability compared to the higher DCs?
    The penality on self heals is so high I can hardly consider this a "massive boost" in survivability. I don't think it's worth building for mid/high skulls reaper. You loose the DC, wich is the #1 role of caster in reaper, spellpen, possibly a feat (adamantine body) and you get penality to heal with positive. This all suck. Specially considering you'll be playing on EA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    Yeah that capstone is reeeally good. That's the biggest drive towards warlock, speacilly in the new content. Evards is great cc too. Nice catch on the TS. I haven't ever made a DC warlock past 20, except a few tests in Lamma, so I totally rushed when reading the wiki. So the DC is equal if you take tier 5 in TS, or 1 less than sorc if you take in SE. And finger/circle is probably not going to be heightened on a warlock build, so those are more 1 DC less. Also can't fit in circle, finger and undeath to death, and have to choose between otto's irresistible + disco or pwk + mass charm. Do you find yourself having issue with spellpoints on reaper?
    I don't find spell point to be an issue in reaper when soloing, but there are times I will have to chug a pot due to bad luck with lost soul drops. In groups there are some people that view grabbing lost souls as a competition and take them even when at full, so in some groups I find it to be an issue. When grouping with friends I don't have that issue because it is usually obvious who needs it.

    Yes I don't take heighten. I take finger + undeath to death for my level 5 spells. Wail and Mass Hold for level 6 spells. The spell I miss most is energy drain for orange names and secondly would be dancing sphere, but I wouldn't switch capstones to take energy drain over devour. There are many times where I would prefer dancing sphere over mass hold - it would be great to have both.l

    Evard's is good, but web seems a little better for straight cc so at higher skull levels it's not a huge advantage. It's great for low skulls.

    I go goo for power word kill + phanstasmal killer + create thrall + mass suggestion. Phantasmal Killer is great for heroic leveling, at level 30 in high skulls it's not really going to get much use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    The penality on self heals is so high I can hardly consider this a "massive boost" in survivability. I don't think it's worth building for mid/high skulls reaper. You loose the DC, wich is the #1 role of caster in reaper, spellpen, possibly a feat (adamantine body) and you get penality to heal with positive. This all suck. Specially considering you'll be playing on EA.
    It's great on 3 skull. 800 self healing at 30 with 1800 or so crits with a 6 second cooldown. And you can wear the memory of fine regalia for the 10% lore with adamantine plating. For 10 skull you would need the right party - but for me it's enough dc at 30 on 3 skull, better dps, better survivability so it's great for soloing and pugs up to about 5 skull.

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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    It's great on 3 skull. 800 self healing at 30 with 1800 or so crits with a 6 second cooldown. And you can wear the memory of fine regalia for the 10% lore with adamantine plating. For 10 skull you would need the right party - but for me it's enough dc at 30 on 3 skull, better dps, better survivability so it's great for soloing and pugs up to about 5 skull.
    There's also the dramatic problem of being a warforged. Can't play a toast machine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellihor View Post
    The idea here is to be a DC caster, like a wizard but with the sorcerer advatanges. Sorcerer is tight on feats and have a bit of trouble with spellpen, but I think it's better than wizard currently. Also in my previous experience playing pale master for years, sorcerer is less durable. But without the undead form, that is pratically inviable for reaper unless you have easy time to get a good healers to harm you (not the case for most people), this difference doesn't exist anymore (what is left is the reflex save difference that wizards get).

    Dragonborn seems to be the best race overall because it gets more CHA and spellpen. Asimar will loose 1 point of CHA, but will have the ability to boost it higher than any other race for limited time thanks to divine resolve. If you happen to be a racial completionist, I belive Aasimar is the best choice because of ascendent bond (not sure if it conflicts with EA stances tought) - I don't think the 10% spell point cost makes worth using the elemental form in reaper anyways because you're not doing any DPS and it looks ugly.
    My personal opinion is Aasimar over Dragonborn for reaper due to Healing Hands which offers a lot more to party than the +1 cha you get. EA Ascendance does work with Aasimar Ascendent Bond adding more synergy.




    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Archmage SLAs are better due to being force, having no caster level cap, and being AoE at T5. It's why wizards outnumber sorcs 3:1 or so.
    This might be part of the reason why a recent post by a dev mentioned that Sorc will be getting a pass before wizard. Also, there is too much junk in the trees and taking a second savant limits your already limited spell selection choices. Still i prefer Sorc over wizard as too use to Sorc casting speed to change.

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    Community Member Ellihor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    My personal opinion is Aasimar over Dragonborn for reaper due to Healing Hands which offers a lot more to party than the +1 cha you get. EA Ascendance does work with Aasimar Ascendent Bond adding more synergy.

    This might be part of the reason why a recent post by a dev mentioned that Sorc will be getting a pass before wizard. Also, there is too much junk in the trees and taking a second savant limits your already limited spell selection choices. Still i prefer Sorc over wizard as too use to Sorc casting speed to change.
    Yeah I agree it's better, mostly for the looks. That's quite an issue for me. Dragonborn suffers about the same problem as wf but a bit less. I mean, while they haven't done race mirror's of glamering yet. But at the end it's about personal choice. The SLA's do so few damage it would be nonsense to consider them as a thing. The biggest drive to wirzard is the DC, but I don't know how much DC they get more than sorc in current endgame. If I always had someone with harm and good reaction to use it on me, I'd totally be a wizard, but that's not realistic for most people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Archmage SLAs are better due to being force, having no caster level cap, and being AoE at T5. It's why wizards outnumber sorcs 3:1 or so.
    Not sure what your saying here. Why would you take the evocation line in AM on a dc caster? If going necro you lose a dc and the free 6 second cooldown enervation sla and if illusion the free 6 seco d cooldown pk, free displacement and +1 illusion dc. I would only do the evo line on a shirardi castsr which is not what this thread is about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    Not sure what your saying here. Why would you take the evocation line in AM on a dc caster? If going necro you lose a dc and the free 6 second cooldown enervation sla and if illusion the free 6 seco d cooldown pk, free displacement and +1 illusion dc. I would only do the evo line on a shirardi castsr which is not what this thread is about.
    I think he means arcane bolt and blast. Both suck anyways
    Netherese - Ellihor - Katriksus - Zatau - GODS - Cannith

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