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  1. #1
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    Default The Godly Heroic Reaper Paladin

    Note: this build used to be called the Simple Heroic Reaper Paladin, and it used to be a good build. However, with a few changes and greater focus on the holy and charismatic features, it is more fitting to call this godly now.

    Paladins are charismatic holy warriors. Warriors are melee. Melee suck in reaper (unless Tilo is the melee, in which case Tilo somehow strangely still is going to dominate the kill meter). Therefore, if we want to make a Paladin not suck in reaper, the focus of the paladin can't be the warrior part. So here is a build that focuses on the charismatic and holy aspects of a paladin for heroic reaper leveling. I'm going to assume tomes and gear farming/crafting work out, since this is for a reaper player. When we focus on the charismatic and holy aspects and not on sucking, we end up quite frequently dominating the kill meters. And I don't mean beating the warlocks. I mean beating everyone combined:



    (Prior build iteration, great build, but not quite godly yet) I use divine might for combat, but not for screenshots because I don't want you to be confused that this is a strength based build.

    Since this is reaper and damage is reduced, we are going to focus on the holy aspects of turn undead and holy retribution because they AoE instant-kill mobs. Now lets look at how we do this. First we start with a couple cleric levels, because we need the cleric enhancement Mighty Turning to make turn undead destroy undead. See here for a simplified turn undead tutorial. Now we don't have AP for mighty turning till level 3, so we can pick up paladin at level 2 for martial weapon proficiency as well.

    We also need a way to deal with reapers and the living, including living before level 12 when we get holy retribution. Stunning blow doesn't work on reapers or elementals. Since paladins are charismatic, we are going to take a warlock level at level 4, to unlock charm person (note on arcane spell failure and spell pen) and warlock command SLA, which will be fueled passively by the first ES aura core, and both are based on charisma for DC. This will allow us to charm humanoid champions and CC basically anything.


    (I took off armor due to arcane spell failure to show what this looks like. I'm converting my prior live build to this one and haven't crafted new armor yet). Tilo is also down 12+ charisma from max, and missing racial completionist (4), charisma race (4), and yugo and remnant pots (4). But it still seems to work. R3 is easy to charm. Charming through R5 is fine, but I feel with the 12+ charisma R7 would be within reason.

    This is a difficult fight where you normally round a corner and run into a pile of insane people with casters. However, due to the charismatic nature of the build, we have fully functioning CC and charms which make situations like this amusing. I mean, Tilo has a Holy Sword of Shadows, but why get the blade dirty?

    This also gives us a name for our build. Due to the holy nature of the build, we can simply call this:

    The Godly Heroic Reaper Paladin

    17 Paladin 2 Cleric 1 Warlock Lawful Good *for going into epics, see note at bottom*

    Now, since turn undead, holy retribution, charm person, and command all work off charisma, we are making a maximum charisma build:

    Starting stats before racial changes

    14 Strength (1 level in strength for weaker races)
    8 Dex
    14 Con
    14 Int
    8 Wis
    18 Charisma + levels

    Since turning undead only has 1 significantly useful feat (Death Domain), and that is free at cleric level 2, we will use our feats for a standard melee layout to supplement the holy and charismatic aspect. However, we are making 1 change, and not taking stunning blow. Instead, we are taking cleave which becomes completionist once AP works out, for more charisma.

    Feats

    1 Power Attack, Follower of Sovereign Host for Unyielding Sovereignty, Awesome past life feat to have: Clericx3
    3 Death Domain, Cleave free feat swap to Completionist when AP in KoTC works out at level 6 (*epic builds see note at bottom)
    6 THF#1
    9 THF#2 (tomes +4, str 17, weaker races take 1 strength level up at 4 or 8)
    12 IC:S
    15 THF#3
    18 Quicken (*epic builds see note at bottom)

    Next we need a leveling and AP plan for turn undead, command SLA, and holy retribution. Here is what I came up with:

    Levels and AP consideration:

    1 Cleric 4 AP: Warpriest for Divine Might, reset these AP at level 12
    2 Paladin 4 AP RS: Extra Turningx3
    3 Cleric 4 AP RS: Mighty Turning, Improved Turningx1, W&S Masteryx1 reset these AP at level 12
    4 Warlock 1 AP ES Aura, 3 AP TS Command SLA, 1 level up in strength for weaker races
    5 Paladin 3 AP KoTC: Extra Turningx2 1 AP RS Improved Turningx2
    6 Paladin 4 AP KoTC Extra Turningx3 Improved Turningx1 Exalted Cleavex1 (Feat swap cleave to completionist)
    7 Paladin 2 AP SaD Extra Lay on Handsx1, 2 AP Improved Turningx3
    8 Paladin 4 AP SaD PRR/MRR + Defensive Stance
    9-11 Paladin: 2 AP RS W&S Masteryx3, 1 AP RS Improved Turningx3, try out divine healing

    12 Paladin Reset AP to 36 AP KotC Holy Retributionx3, Sealed Life, Avenging Cleavex1, Divine Mightx3, Improvedx3 + Extra Turningx3
    6 AP SaD PRR/MRR/Lay on Hands Charges/Defensive Stance
    1 AP ES Aura
    3 AP TS Command SLA
    2 AP RS W&S Masteryx1

    13-14 Paladin 6 AP RS: W&S Masteryx3, Mighty Turning
    15-20 Paladin AP as you see fit, resetting RS to divine healing after you are done with undead content.

    Basically this is going to let us instant kill undead from korthos to necro3 through level 11. Then we swap to holy retribution to instakill non-good which includes undead at 12 (and constructs and more or less everything else in game), but this has a 1k hp limit. We get the ability to instakill undead back at level 14 in time for Necro IV, Search n Rescue, Litany, Mines. For champion deathwarded undead, we will command them from level 4 to cap.

    For the living, we will be able to charm and command humanoids from level 4-cap. For mind-immune champions, we will toss in a trip (solid strength from charisma powered divine might). For Reapers, we will be able to command them from level 4 to cap.

    Skills:

    Concentration
    UMD
    Intimidate
    Some Balance
    Some Heal
    Some Jump

    Gear of Note: Twilight+Eternal Faith Cannith crafted medium armor (non-metal for reuse with druid) with 20 base arcane spell failure at levels 4, 10, 15. Charisma and melee gear. 20/40/60 HAMP GS Kama to swap in with heal scrolls as a weapon set (refill this heal scroll set with stacks of 50 other heal scrolls when it drops to 50). Goggles with enchant/insightful enchant level 4, and enchant/insightful enchant/insightful spell pen levels 10 and 17. Trinket Cannith crafted Lesser Arcane Spell Dexterity/True Seeing level 3, and Lesser Arcane Spell Dexterity/Spell Pen/insightful charisma levels 10/13 and just scroll true seeing.

    There is a Ravenloft necklace that is also perfect for this build, for those without crafting:


    Also see reaper weapon golf bag.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is Tilo soloing a reaper dungeon that many players have problems with due to the large amount of reapers that spawn combined with the large amount of undead. With turn undead, the dungeon becomes cake because the undead all poof, leaving the reapers alone to die. Tilo was 4 paladin here, because I was still sorta winging this build as I made it.



    I hope this helps your paladin not suck in heroic reaper. Good luck!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *For builds going into epics.

    You won't have the spell pen for epic mobs, especially when playing in LD
    Charms have short duration in EE+ due to epic ward. Turning undead is difficult to impossible due to mob CR. Mobs have far more than the 1k hp execute of holy retribution.

    But you still want to be godly and charismatic.

    So take Quicken at level 3, which frees up your level 18 feat swap for Spell Focus: Conjuration. We also will take 3 more warlock levesl 18-20 for 4 total.

    Our first line of defense will be a quickened soundburst SLA twisted from EA, which is a fort save, but automatically fails against spell resistance.

    Second line of defense we need a non-spell pen spell for CC. Web will do that 20-23, but requires 4 warlock levels to cast, 6 AP in TS to get, and conjuration/insightful conjuration goggles. The spell focus feat allows twisting conjuration focus from draconic and magistar.

    AP 20-30 is 13 SaD (20% hp), 21 ES (brilliance), 6 AP TS(web), 38 AP KotC (Cleave/Retribution/Sealed Life) 2 AP SE (Taint the Blood to debuff fort saves)

    At 24-30, Burst of Glacial Wrath (BoGW) opens up. If you want to try it, free feat swap SF:Conjuration to SF:Evocation, change to evocation/insightful evocation goggles, and chance ED twists to evocation.

    BoGW is a fort save on freeze, so it is harder to land, and only freezes mobs that can be charmed (no spiders or undead). But the death animations look cool, and it does enable helpless damage. BoGW also ignores spell resistance.

    BoGW will have a higher DC due to evocation bonuses than Sound Burst SLA.

    Unyielding Sentinel, Legendary Dreadnought, Divine Crusader, and Draconic will be the most useful epic destinies. Twists will be from Light the Dark, Conjuration/Evo focus (magistar and draconic), Cocoon, and Consecrate + Sacred Ground, Confront any Foe depending on your character needs.

    Some iconics can do sylvanus, which you should definitely try out if you can pick it! As a last resort, drop DC casting and put points in ES for brilliance for temp hp instead.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 05-17-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Turn Undead - Simple Version, and note on Holy Retribution

    This is why you splash the 2 cleric - death domain.

    When you turn undead, you make a turning power check that has to double the turning resistance of the mob to destroy it. If you tie or exceed the turning resistance but do
    not double it, mobs are paralyzed instead. Past low levels, it is impossible to double the turning resistance of mobs, and a pure paladin can only paralyze them at best.

    There is a radiant servant tier 2 enhancement: Mighty Turning. It destroys undead only mobs on top of paralyzing them when you tie or exceed the mobs turning resistance. So a cleric splash means you don't have to double the turning resistance, merely tie it or better.

    Higher turning resistance mobs have resistance roughly equal to the CR x 1.5. This gives a turning resistance of 30 for Necropolis IV Temple of Vol on elite (a level 16 quest on elite with CR 20 undead). This means we want a turning power of ~2xdungeon level for the stronger undead.

    Turning power is the sum of:

    All Cleric Levels
    Paladin levels starting at paladin level 4
    Cleric Past lives (6)(2 each)
    Seek Eternal Rest Lvl 2 cleric Lvl 1 Pali spell (4)
    Eternal Faith item from cannith crafting (4)
    Death Domain (2)
    Improved Turning Radiant Servant Enhancement (3)
    Improved Turning Knight of the Chalice Enhancement (3)
    Mighty Turning RS (1)
    Having High Charisma (~3)
    Mighty Turning Feat (1)
    Insightful Turning (level 10 ravenloft item) (2)

    This gives a heroic max turning power of up to 29 + Level effect. Without past lives, ravenloft item, or Mighty Turning feat, this is 20 + level effect. At character level 14 (2 cleric 1 warlock 11 paladin) for full reaper XP in Necro IV, level effect adds +10. This is 30 total turning power, which ties or exceeds turning resistance, so will destroy even tougher undead in Necro IV. There is no saving throw for the effect, although some named and special quest mobs and deathblocked champions are immune to the destroy and are merely paralyzed, some champions are also immune to paralyze, and bosses are immune to both paralyze and destroy.

    Elementals are difficult to turn, and require up to date gear/past lives/enhancement mighty turning (which apparently works on them).

    Your turning power and charisma also determine the amount of undead turned. But this just works itself out on a cleric/paladin max charisma build.

    Turn undead number of charges per shrine are based on charisma.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Holy Retribution is the tier 5 paladin KoTC enhancement that triple cleaves in around you, and after each hit causes non-good mobs to need to make a saving throw based on charisma and paladin levels or die if they have less than 1k HP. It's uses a turn undead charge.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-23-2018 at 11:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Arcane Spell Failure, Spell Penetration, and note on Charms

    Charm Person has arcane spell failure.

    Medium armor is 20-25% ASF

    Basic rule of thumb is medium armor for everyone except AC tanks and evasion characters due to dodge caps.

    Twilight on cannith crafted armor reduces this by 10%

    Lesser Arcane Casting Dexterity on Cannith crafted gloves/trinket reduces this by 5%

    Some races can reduce this by 15%

    Overall, this will leave 5% ASF, less on some races some of the time. We can live with 5%.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Spell Penetration applies to charm person and command.

    Spell penetration will be down 14 caster levels when you fight the drow in the Mines at level 15 for example. 9 of these can be made up with past livesx3 of wizard and favored soul. 2 more can be obtained by tier 2 of the reaper enhancement tree. This means one can be down 4 from a normal first life pure caster. If you have these other sources of spell pen, you can cast on the lesser spell resistance mobs like hezrous, renders, and reavers (most things except drow). You won't be able to cast on drow though.


    Down hezrou down! Bad demon!

    Reapers don't have spell resistance.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Charming a mob resets its aggro leash. So if you find a particular mob you like charmed, you can drag it through the entire dungeon aggro behind you charming it periodically, and heal it as needed. Dual wield dot stacking champions are your friends, and the preferred method of killing red names in higher reaper. Keep an eye out for one to bring with you as you approach the end of the dungeon.

    Red names don't physically attack very hard against your paladin due to layering of PRR/AC/dodge/displacement, so you can generally tank for the champion better than it can tank for itself against physical attacks. The champion will tank magic damage better, since your paladin has a reaper based damage multiplier of damage taken that exceeds your MRR.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-19-2018 at 03:13 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Reaper against the Living

    Edit: this is prior build iteration 2 cleric 18 paladin. With charm person and command, fighting against the living is going to be styling now.

    I had the pleasure of playing with a great group of people in an old fashioned Minotaur beat-down yesterday, including what looked like a triple-triple-triple completionist doing racials on an 1 arti 11-12 warlock. Even though Tilo was only 11, and didn't have holy retribution yet, Tilo still held his own against the living.


    (prior build iteration)

    I also had the great pleasure of running with an ultra completionist off and on from 11-13. A great player, a cool person, and one of the original completionist pioneers from years ago. Interestingly, we both agreed that paladins weren't that bad, just a different play style. Against the living, paladin does just fine. An arcane caster to CC deathwarded champions with web is actually an amazingly good combo for this build. You have your charms, CC, UMD and other healing, intimidate and your own instant kills, with melee dps. They have their charms, CC, instant kills, and caster dps, and healing. Between the two of you, things generally just pop.


    (prior build iteration)

    Although to be fair, I had a head start as Olidia went to restock heal scrolls.

    In legacy gear better than currently available at level 16, Tilo hits for 150 a swing base, or 3x more damage per hit than at level 4 with carnifax. Mobs in Lost in the Swamp have 3.5k hp in High Roads in a full group at level 18, or 20x more than they have in a level 4 dungeon. Hezrou in Curse the Sky have 5.5k hp base (more on champions), plus DR and PRR. So as you level, base melee damage becomes 1/7th or less as useful as it was at level 3 (probably some design thing to promote grouping). This is why you build for AoE instant kills and charms. Melee is to clean up leftovers, and when you have to.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-17-2018 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Updated build to version 2.

    I feel satisfied with this build now. The first iteration was already "good", but now the build is "godly."

    Edited OP to show effectiveness of charms and command, edited to add a section on arcane spell failure and spell penetration.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-15-2018 at 12:46 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default thanks for posting this

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    I feel satisfied with this build now. The first iteration was already "good", but now the build is "godly."

    Edited OP to show effectiveness of charms and command, edited to add a section on arcane spell failure and spell penetration.
    Looks like it would be great, I need a couple more Paladin past lives. Just got to do my Druid past life next and then I can work on building some interesting builds. Reaper is fun for me and well as I am EU based I find I solo fairly often and would like to make life interesting by playing varied builds.

    Thank you for posting the AP's, crafting guide and the leveling idea this helps me a lot.
    G-land
    Main characters, Tymout, Tymkul, Tymbom, Tymantha etc...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skorpeon View Post
    Just got to do my Druid past life next and then I can work on building some interesting builds. Reaper is fun for me and well as I am EU based I find I solo fairly often and would like to make life interesting by playing varied builds.

    Thank you for posting the AP's, crafting guide and the leveling idea this helps me a lot.
    You could test drive this adapted to your druid life if you were making a wolf or bear. When you craft the armors, if you do the non-metal medium 20% ASF armors, they will be reusable on druid as well.

    Every strength based build possible, which are all melee, and all thrown and bow strength builds, can splash 2 cleric for divine might and turn undead, and 1 warlock for charm/command SLA or 2 bard for charm/suggestion SLA, and go charisma based instead. This also opens up full rank UMD at a rediculous charisma bonus, and W&S mastery for any such build for self-healing. This particular build is paladin, but this build idea can be imported into a wide variety of classes and builds.

    It also opens up divine healing in radiant servant.

    All caster builds also can make great use of gear with enchant/spell pen/arcane spell failure reduction for scrolls and/or spells.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-16-2018 at 03:59 PM.

  8. #8
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    Very interesting build, thanks for sharing.
    Don't you need fiend pact to get the command SLA? How do you do that on a LG character?

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    Whaaaaat? Tilo, you are a godsend I am going to be wrapping up a SDK pally life next week and was wondering what to do for the next two. Here we are. Also, I have a medium armor that gives 5 uses of displacement that I haven't actually used yet. I was thinking I was going to have to skip reaper until the wonky cleric tree build you posted where I will do my last two cleric lives I think (first was Axel's battle cleric).

    Too bad there is not enough AP to go for Elven displacement. Maybe when I finish my racials and they add a couple more races.

  10. #10
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    Default Reaper Solo No Hire

    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    Don't you need fiend pact to get the command SLA?
    No its just an enhancement in Tainted Scholar for anyone. You can see it being used against a hezrou in the spell pen/arcane spell failure section above, or as the hand pointing down in the screenshots below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitering View Post
    Tilo, you are a godsend I am going to be wrapping up a SDK pally life next week and was wondering what to do for the next two. I was thinking I was going to have to skip reaper until the wonky cleric tree build you posted where I will do my last two cleric lives I think (first was Axel's battle cleric).

    That tree build might go sideways when they redo druid and convert tree to melee weapons as well. So you might want to do that first. I didn't intend this for epics because of the 1k hp limit on holy retribution and hit die limit/turning power limit on turn undead. Epic ward also limits charms to 6 seconds. You will rock 15-20, but I have no clue on 21-30. Worst case scenario you'll have a ton of holy retributions to just spam for the triple hit damage cleave. How bad could that be? For epic play, you also want to grab 4 warlock levels total for access to web spell from tainted scholar. Web has no spell resistance, and might work as your replacement for charm person in epics. If that doesn't work, take some of the TS and RS enhancements and grab brilliance from ES instead. Instead of charms and instant kills, you'll then have temp hp for reaper. Win, or win a different way.

    You will find divine healing is awesome solo until you have access to heal scrolls, and is still solid even after heal scrolls. Here's a R5 solo no hire since some people were wondering about reaper soloing. It wasn't really solo since the champ cultist did most of the heavy lifting due to rakshasa damage reduction. Tilo took out Karas though. What really makes solo work is tossing a charm out ahead of you so you aren't taking all the damage as you enter the room. Or hitting turn undead, and only having to fight a single deathwarded mob or a reaper.



    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-27-2018 at 07:45 PM.

  11. #11

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    "Paladin OP. Nerf Nowz!!!1"

    Who'd of thunk it, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  12. #12
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Forum paladin
    ;p
    Vishantii (the bird man)
    Kil (heroic and epic completionist)

    Sarlona, Heart of Wisdom

  13. #13
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    So I capped this tonight. Very happy for a build I just winged on the fly. You'll have better success with it than I because I didn't learn of the need for cleric for turn undead or warlock for CC/charms until after I needed them hahahah. Did pretty well through R7.

    After this I am going to play a barbarian, Unbongwah's gotta have a build somewhere I can start with.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-19-2018 at 10:34 AM.

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    How do your DCs stay competitive up to level 20? Do you slot/swap spell focus gear? Use caster slaver set? Caster reaper tree dc boosts? Or is just maxing out your charisma enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peng View Post
    How do your DCs stay competitive up to level 20? Gear/Tomes/build/reaper tree/targeting weak save
    Do you slot/swap spell focus gear? No swapping. DC gear is always worn.
    Use caster slaver set? Yes at levels 8-14, cannith set 1-7 and 15-20. Caster reaper tree dc boosts? Yes. Or is just maxing out your charisma enough? I don't have max charisma to test.
    In red. Note that this life Tilo was down 12+ charisma from max as noted above (no racial completionist/no charisma race/no consumables/weaker race needed level in strength), and I don't know how much down from max you will be. If you had those 12+ charisma, then you wouldn't need spell focus gear for R5, and with that gear, you could charm R7+ reliably.

    Turn undead has no save, and holy retribution requires 3 will saves to survive, which means it also effectively has no save. Holy retribution also does massive damage, so even if a mob makes the saves, they often die anyways. Due to the lack of saves, this is actually a much easier build to 'necro' dc cast on than a sorc.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-19-2018 at 03:00 PM.

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    I will hit 29 tonight farming Bavarian epic quests for loots, but then it will be off to Tree as you said Tilo. I will do 2 of those, and probably a few epic lives as I have 6 mill banked in all the trees. Then a few heroic paladin lives, but this could become my racial completonist build. I have done 3 Dragonborn and 3 H-elf already but kind of have to get going on the rest. You kind of need Warlock for Epic life farming since they can EE in any destiny. I know epic is more important than class or racial, so maybe I will do that after getting my pally heal amp.

    I only have 1 cleric, 3 barb, 3 druid, 3 PDK, 3 epic divine, and will soon have 1 paly, and 1 SDK. Got to get started on something after 2 cleric, morning lord tree builds, and 2 more pally lives. Might as well be Warlock epiccing or do you think I should do Monk throwers before they fix all that?

    Anyway, so much fun from your builds Tilo.

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    Default Epics

    Hey Tilomere. Thanks for sharing your build. I was thinking about running this on a PDK to get a paladin past life and PDK life. I saw above that you said that this would work in epics with 4 Warlock levels instead of 1. I plan to get rid of the fighter level by finally using my +1 heart. Here's my question: when, in the leveling process, should I take the additional warlock levels? 18-20? I would appreciate any thoughts that you have. Thanks!

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    Ya 18-20 sounds good. Iconics can do sylvanus too, with IC:B, and a sentient drow maul of the weapon master!

    When you iconic and want to +1 to remove the fighter level, first make a 1 fighter, 2 cleric, 12 paladin Lawful Good.

    Then +1 the fighter level into warlock, so you can level up UMD to full.

    Web is conjuration, so you will need new goggles as well at 20.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 02-21-2018 at 12:54 PM.

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    Thanks, Tilo. Very helpful! Gonna try it next life.

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    Yeah, I'm going to give this a go. Need Paladin PLs and this sounds fun. Haven't played a Melee in 9 years, I need a caster styled Pally.

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