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  1. #1
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    Default Aasimar Scourge Warchanter

    Note: This has been ported over from the Barbarian forums in case you're wondering how I'm replying to someone within the first post on the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    At some point I plan to post a Scourge Swashbuckler built for EE Skullsmasher, which can become Sentient and will become 14-18/x5 19-20/x7 in LD with all relevant crit bonuses:
    • 20/x3 base
    • 18-20/x4 Swashbuckling
    • 15-20/x4 IC:Blunt feat
    • 15-20/x5 Destroyer of the Dead
    • 14-20/x5 Pulverizer
    • 14-18/x5 19-20/x7 Overwhelming + Devastating Crit
    I've been puzzling over this myself, trying to figure out a way to do such a build in a way that it actually pays off (rather than just being a "flavor" build).

    I'm stumbling over three basic questions:

    1. Why not just use a Handaxe? For any build with 6 levels of Fighter, they have the same critical profile. The Fighter version takes less AP to boost the critical multiplier and provides access to Stalwart Defender as well. I can make a vague, handwavey argument that forgoing Fighter levels allows you to take a 16 Bard/3 Rogue/1 FvS split that provides Divine Presence while still retaining Evasion - and that Good, Ghost Touch +5% Doublestrike weapons are worth the drop in defense. But it's fairly comparable.

    2. Why not just use Daggers? VKF provides +20% doublestrike within 3 AP as well as a host of defensive/offensive benefits. Even without access to Pulverizer/Headman's Chop, a VKF build will almost certainly outdamage those weapons at a much lower AP investment than it took to pump up critical multiplier.

    3. Why not just use Light Picks? Answering the above two questions got me to "what about Fury of the Wild?". Since rage effects don't mesh with Stalwart Defender, Fighter was much less attractive and Light Mace becomes a more viable option. However, while Fury of the Wild + SWF/Scourge/Mace is nice, Fury of the Wild + SWF/SwNT/Light Pick is better. As it turns out, this question is answered by the game's gear availability (i.e.: there are no good Light Picks). So I put forth the proposition: why not use Fury of the Wild instead of Legendary Dreadnought?

    Code:
    ScourgeChanter
    16/3/1 Bard/Rogue/Favored Soul
    Neutral Good Aasimar Scourge
    
    
    Level Order
    
    1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Bard. . . . . .11. Bard. . . . . .16. Favored Soul
    2. Bard . . . . . .7. Bard . . . . . 12. Bard . . . . . 17. Bard
    3. Bard . . . . . .8. Rogue . . . . .13. Bard. . . . . .18. Bard
    4. Bard . . . . . .9. Bard . . . . . 14. Bard . . . . . 19. Bard
    5. Bard . . . . . 10. Bard . . . . . 15. Rogue . . . . .20. Bard
    
    
    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . .8. . . .+7. . . .4: CHA
    Dexterity . . . 12. . . .+7. . . .8: CHA
    Constitution. . 14. . . .+7. . . 12: CHA
    Intelligence. . 16. . . .+7. . . 16: CHA
    Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .+7. . . 20: CHA
    Charisma. . . . 18. . . .+7. . . 24: CHA
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA
    
    Skills
    . . . . . R .B .B .B .B .B .B .R. B. B. B. B. B. B. R .F. B. B. B. B
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Perform . . .5 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Disable . 4 .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 4 . . . .1 . . 1. . .5. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Open Lo . 4 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . 4 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Search. . 4 . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 4 . . . . . 1. 1. 1. 4 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    UMD . . . 4 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . .2 .2 .1 .1 .23
    Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 .1 .3 .1 .3 . . . . . 2. 3. 3. 21
    Diplo . . 4 . . . .1 .3 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .1. . . . . . . 18
    Bluff . . 4 . . . . . 1. 1. 4. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . 17
    Tumble. . 4 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . .17
    Balance . 4 . . 2. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
    Spot. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .44 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 10 12 10 10 10 10 10 10 13. 7 11 11 11 11
    
    
    Feats
    
    .1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .3. . . . : Precision
    .6. . . . : Shield Mastery
    .9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
    15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    18. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
    21 Epic . : Power Attack
    24 Epic . : Cleave
    26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic . : Great Cleave
    28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge
    30 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea
    
    16 Deity. : Follower of: Amaunator
    
    
    Spells
    
    Bard
    1. Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Sonic Blast, Grease, Focusing Chant
    2. Blur, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, Rage
    3. Displacement, Haste, Good Hope, Dispel Magic
    4. Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Cure Critical Wounds
    5. Mind Fog, Shadow Walk, Greater Dispel Magic, Mass Suggestion
    6. Heroes' Feast, Otto's Irresistible Dance
    Favored Soul
    1. Nightshield, Divine Favor
    Enhancements (80 AP) Warchanter (38 AP)
    • Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit
      1. Enchant Weapon, Rough and Ready III
      2. Iced Edges III
      3. Ironskin Chant III, High Spirits III, Frozen Fury III
      4. Reckless Chant III, Northwind III
      5. Chant of Power III, Howl of the North, Spinning Ice III
    Aasimar Scourge (17 AP)
    • Stronger Bonds, Charisma, Stronger Bonds II, Charisma, Stronger Bonds III
      1. Scourge Weapons, Improved Recovery
      2. Improved Scourge Weapons
      3. Greater Scourge Weapons, Strike Down I, Blessings II
      4. Destroyer of the Dead
    Swashbuckler (14 AP)
    • Confidence, Swashbuckling, Uncanny Dodge
      1. On Your Toes III, Blow By Blow: Melee III
      2. Fast Movement
      3. Skirmisher, Smooth Flourishes
    Spellsinger (4 AP)
    • Spellsinger
      1. Lingering Songs III
    War Soul (4 AP)
    • Smite Foe
      1. Divine Presence III
    Harper Agent (3 AP)
    • Agent of Good I
      1. Strategic Combat
    Destiny (24 AP) Fury of the Wild
    1. Tunnel Vision III, Fast Healing I
    2. Unstoppable Fury II, Acute Instincts III, Damage Reduction III
    3. (none)
    4. Gird Against Demons I, Sense Weakness III, Overwhelming Force III
    5. Fury Eternal
    6. Unbridled Fury
    Twists of Fate (35 fate points)
    1. Legendary Shield Mastery (Tier 2 Sentinel)
    2. Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
    3. Unearthly Reactions (Tier 1 Magister)
    4. Reign (Tier 3 Fatesinger)
    5. Acrobatic (Tier 1 Shadowdancer)
    Notes:

    1. In terms of AP, 38 Warchanter, 17 racial, 14 Swashbuckler and 4 War Soul are 'hard limits' - no matter how you re-arrange the selection, you're probably going to end up with no less than that spent to get the same effect. The remaining (7 + racial) are more dealer's choice.

    2. Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence can all work as a hit stat. I selected Intelligence because a massive starting Int is necessary to hit the trapping skills. However, the Intelligence is only useful for those skills and this build is never going to be anyone's first choice as trapper. Without Insightful Reflexes (can't afford the feat, see below), Dexterity can't be tossed. The minimalist approach to this build would probably involve dumping Intelligence/trapping entirely and going with Strength for hit (to avoid having to take Weapon Finesse). Note: A Strength tome is required for Power Attack.

    3. The general shortage of feats means that the build is single target until deep in Epic levels. Likewise, the long path to the critical enhancement points means that out-of-the-gate you'll probably have little more than the Warchanter/Swashbuckler AP. Similarly, using Weapon Finesse/Insightful Reflexes/Force of Personality to reduce down to 3 meaningful stats is out of the question - some Wisdom is necessary to use racial Lay on Hands.

    4. The DC for Freeze attacks should be comparable to most Freeze builds (which tend to use fewer levels of Bard and don't have Divine Presence). However, Legendary Tactics can always be twisted if necessary.

    5. I believe Fury of the Wild can actually be a valid choice here. You'll be less effective at mindlessly grinding through trash mobs (than LD), but far more effective at killing the one enemy you really want to kill (before it can kill you). Auto-critting on x5 multiplier weapon at 400% damage with 200% of your stat mod and 28% doublestrike before gear is a fair chunk of damage (note: scavenging 6 AP for the doublestrike boost is probably one of the best ways to further improve this - there's enough random junk twists listed above that extra action boosts can easily be taken).

    6. If you've got 4+ racial AP, but no stone to reincarnate away the Ranger level, you can just take 6 levels of Ranger for Exposing Strike. You'd lose trap skills, evasion and -2 Freeze DC/Duration. On the other hand, Adrenaline against a single target would go up to x6 multiplier with a Melee Power boost. Lay Waste (as a twist) is another option for pushing up the critical multiplier, but the relatively long cooldown and steep cost make it problematic.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    1. Why not just use a Handaxe? For any build with 6 levels of Fighter, they have the same critical profile.
    For me the incentive would be to have more bard levels, since the handaxe Swashbuckler needs to do something like bard 14 / ftr 6 or bard 12/ftr 6/rog 2 to reach its full potential. Bard 15 gets you Inspire Heroics+Excellence, which is a great combo if you want a party buffbot. Bard 16 like your builds gets you lvl 6 spells such as OID, which is still a situationally useful CC spell since it has no DC check, only a Spell Pen check and not every mob has SR.
    2. Why not just use Daggers? VKF provides +20% doublestrike within 3 AP as well as a host of defensive/offensive benefits. Even without access to Pulverizer/Headman's Chop, a VKF build will almost certainly outdamage those weapons at a much lower AP investment than it took to pump up critical multiplier.
    In terms of crit profile, best dagger you can use is Assassin's Kiss, which becomes 15-18/x4 19-20/x6 in LD; i.e., the Skullsmasher Aasimar bard is +10 effective hits or ~24% higher than dagger Swashbuckler. This compares favorably with +20% doublestrike from Rapid Attack. Though this doesn't factor in all the other on-hit/on-crit DPS effects etc. so it's a pretty simplified view.

    Also from what I've read, Single Dagger (+20 MP) doesn't work with Skirmisher, which undermines the appeal of SWF VKF + Swashbuckling, since you have to choose between +doublestrike from Shield Mastery or +MP from Single Dagger and +10% doublestrike from Dashing Scoundrel.

    But TBH my real goal is just to find the best use for Destroyer of the Dead, because the relative lack of good named options for a Tempest (plus the high AP cost) ironically lowers its appeal for its Iconic class.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  3. #3
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    I hate to rain on your parade if the build is literally built for a Sentient Skullsmasher, but it wont work. You'd be in the same boat with me and my Rebellion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    The era of DDO loot roughly around the time of Epic Gianthold/Shadowfell is set up, behind the scenes, in a way that makes them not compatible with the Sentient system. It's an unfortunate reality and the reason the U37 release notes state "Most named weapons with a minimum level of 20 or higher can accept a Sentient Jewel." (emphasis mine).

    Because of this there ended up being slightly fewer sentient compatible weapons available at launch then we initially expected or wanted. It is one of many reasons we opted to put out two competitive suites of named items for every single weapon type in addition to the Raid weapons with Ravenloft. As we move forward we will continue to add to the list of named weapons and increase the pool of available choices.

    This all being said, if you find a named weapon that seems like it doesn't fit that criteria and yet still does not accept sentience please feel free to submit a bug report as it is entirely probable that there are some more that fell through the cracks inadvertently during the pre-release crunch that we don't yet know about.
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-for-sentience
    Stratis on Khyber

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  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Nuts. Skullsmasher is on the wiki page for Sentient base weapons, but I guess that's just an auto-compiled list of epic named weapons or something?
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Nuts. Skullsmasher is on the wiki page for Sentient base weapons, but I guess that's just an auto-compiled list of epic named weapons or something?
    Yeah I checked the wiki too once I realized my Rebellion wasn't accepting sentience. I'm guessing most people don't care about making weapons from Epic Gianthold sentient. I think the only other Gianthold weapon complaint I had seen was about Adamantine Knuckles, and the Dev response was something simple along the lines of "adamantine knuckles don't accept sentience", not the more in depth explanation that I posted above.
    Stratis on Khyber

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    For me the incentive would be to have more bard levels, since the handaxe Swashbuckler needs to do something like bard 14 / ftr 6 or bard 12/ftr 6/rog 2 to reach its full potential. Bard 15 gets you Inspire Heroics+Excellence, which is a great combo if you want a party buffbot. Bard 16 like your builds gets you lvl 6 spells such as OID, which is still a situationally useful CC spell since it has no DC check, only a Spell Pen check and not every mob has SR.

    In terms of crit profile, best dagger you can use is Assassin's Kiss, which becomes 15-18/x4 19-20/x6 in LD; i.e., the Skullsmasher Aasimar bard is +10 effective hits or ~24% higher than dagger Swashbuckler. This compares favorably with +20% doublestrike from Rapid Attack. Though this doesn't factor in all the other on-hit/on-crit DPS effects etc. so it's a pretty simplified view.

    Also from what I've read, Single Dagger (+20 MP) doesn't work with Skirmisher, which undermines the appeal of SWF VKF + Swashbuckling, since you have to choose between +doublestrike from Shield Mastery or +MP from Single Dagger and +10% doublestrike from Dashing Scoundrel.
    The actual build I'm playing through now is the same sort of breakdown except with Dagger. The ability to be Human and take 1 AP for dex-to-hit with Daggers saves some precious feat room and even without Single Dagger, Daggers are generally going to outdamage +1 critical multiplier Light Maces because Doublestrike > Critical Profile and Melee Power > Critical Profile in most cases.

    In my mind, where the +1 critical multiplier would really pay off is with Adrenaline. I'm not entirely sure it does, but it's about as close as I can get to justification for using Aasimar Scourge Bard with Swashbuckling. It might be justifiable to do 14 Cleric/3 Bard/3 Rogue w/Strength domain so you can twist Confront Any Foe w/Adrenaline - but it's not an ability I've used in a long, long time so I'm not entirely sure on the rules. Using a non-Deity weapon on a melee Cleric also leaves you scrambling around for places to put AP.

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