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  1. #1
    Community Member OxfordCalc's Avatar
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    Default STR based Rogue/Fighter with Trapping

    What follows is a build that uses STR as the main stat, but has enough skill points for skills Search, Spot, Disable Device, and Open locks. I want the rogue skills, but enough strength to bust down doors and pull levers - carrying out Bull Strength potions or relying on the hireling gets tedious.

    Don't know if I'm totally off base here and would be better off with a more traditional build, especially for the first life. It uses 2H to focus on DPS, not sure if S&B would be better for higher levels.

    Code:
    StrIntSDK
    14/6 Rogue/Fighter
    Neutral Good Shadar-kai
    
    
    Level Order
    
    1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Fighter . . . .11. Rogue . . . . .16. Rogue
    2. Rogue. . . . . .7. Rogue. . . . . 12. Fighter . . . .17. Rogue
    3. Rogue. . . . . .8. Rogue. . . . . 13. Fighter . . . .18. Rogue
    4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Fighter . . . .14. Rogue . . . . .19. Rogue
    5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Fighter . . . .15. Fighter. . . . 20. Rogue
    
    
    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . 16. . . .16 . . . 4: STR
    Dexterity . . . 10. . . .12 . . . 8: STR
    Constitution. . 15. . . .16 . . .12: STR
    Intelligence. . 16. . . .16 . . .16: STR
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .20: STR
    Charisma. . . . .6. . . . 6 . . .24: STR
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR
    
    Skills
    . . . . . R. R. R. R. R. F .R .R .F. F .R .F. F .R .F. R. R. R. R. R
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. ½ .1 .1 . . . .3 .1. ½ .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Open Lo . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 . . . .1 .½. ½ .2 . . 2. 2. 2. 1. 2. 23
    Search. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .1 .1. 1 .2 .½. ½ .1 .1. 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 23
    Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 . . . .2 . . . .3 . . 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
    UMD . . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. ½ .1 .1 . . . .3 .½. 1 .1 . . 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Jump. . . 2. 1. 1. 1. . . . 1. 1. 3 .3. . . . . .1 .1. . . . . . . . .15
    Intim . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 3 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . 1. 2 . . . . . . . . 14
    Balance . . .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 3. 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
    Bluff . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
    Move Si . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
    Tumble. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
    Hide. . . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
    Haggle. . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .44 11 11 11 10. 5 11 11 .5. 5 11. 5 .5 11 .5. 9. 8. 7. 5. 6
    . . . . .44 11 11 11 11. 5 11 11 .5. 5 11. 5 .5 11 .5 11 11 11 11 11
    
    
    Feats
    
    .1. . . . : Power Attack
    .3. . . . : Cleave
    .6. . . . : Great Cleave
    .6 Fighter: Stunning Blow
    .9. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
    .9 Fighter: Improved Sunder
    12. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
    12 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
    15. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    15 Fighter: Greater Two Handed Fighting
    18. . . . : Heavy Armor Training
    21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic . : Bulwark of Defense
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
    27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
    28 Destiny: Tactician
    29 Destiny: Dire Charge
    30 Epic . : 
    30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea
    
    16 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
    19 Rogue. : Slippery Mind
    
    
    Enhancements (80 AP)
    
    Kensei (38 AP)
    • Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought
      1. Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Haste Boost III
      2. Tactics III, Ascetic Training: Conditioning III
      3. Shattering Strike III, Strength
      4. Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart, Strength
      5. A Good Death: Melee, One with the Blade, Deadly Strike, Keen Edge
    Stalwart Defender (15 AP)
    • Toughness
      1. Resilient Defense III, Stalwart Defensive Mastery I, Defense Boost III
      2. Durable Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
      3. Tenacious Defense III
    Assassin (15 AP)
    • Knife in the Darkness
      1. Toxin Affinity III, Sneak Attack Training
      2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training
      3. Critical Mastery II, Intelligence
    Shadar-kai (6 AP)
    • Shadar-kai Grit
      1. Spiked Chain Attack, Keen Senses III
    Thief-Acrobat (6 AP)
    • Staff Control
      1. Sly Flourish III, Fast Movement
    Edit: It seems that though my thief skills are maxed out, my total modifier won't be high enough to reliably find or disable the higher level traps. Even with items, the modifier won't get much above 30, which isn't enough.
    Last edited by OxfordCalc; 01-27-2018 at 11:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with your build concept per se, but there are a few challenges / issues I see:
    • Low-ish base DEX and no tomes means you can't take some useful DPS boosting feats like Precision & Improved Sneak Attack.
    • It looks like you plan to use heavy armor. That's okay, but remember Evasion doesn't work in med/hvy armor. So you might as well drop Imp Evasion, unless the idea is you're gonna quick-swap into robes every time you need it?
    • If you don't have Harper, maybe consider splashing FvS or cleric so you can add Divine Might to boost your STR further.


    It isn't quite the same, but there's a CON-based dwarf rogue 13 / ftr 6 build using greataxes in my Kundarak Brigade thread.

    You may also want to consider splits which go heavier into fighter: e.g., rog 8 / ftr 12 or even ftr 12 / rog 5 / monk or barb 3. Basically you trade skill pts and SAs for a Power Surge and access to higher-lvl ftr feats such as Tactical Mastery.
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxfordCalc View Post
    Edit: It seems that though my thief skills are maxed out, my total modifier won't be high enough to reliably find or disable the higher level traps. Even with items, the modifier won't get much above 30, which isn't enough.
    I wouldn't worry; you can boost your trap skills a lot thru gear (SDK start out with +13 skill gear and it just goes up from there), buffs like Heroism, tomes, etc. And if you're still struggling, you can always put some APs into Mechanic to help out.
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  4. #4
    Community Member OxfordCalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    There's nothing wrong with your build concept per se, but there are a few challenges / issues I see:
    • Low-ish base DEX and no tomes means you can't take some useful DPS boosting feats like Precision & Improved Sneak Attack.
    • It looks like you plan to use heavy armor. That's okay, but remember Evasion doesn't work in med/hvy armor. So you might as well drop Imp Evasion, unless the idea is you're gonna quick-swap into robes every time you need it?
    • If you don't have Harper, maybe consider splashing FvS or cleric so you can add Divine Might to boost your STR further.


    It isn't quite the same, but there's a CON-based dwarf rogue 13 / ftr 6 build using greataxes in my Kundarak Brigade thread.

    You may also want to consider splits which go heavier into fighter: e.g., rog 8 / ftr 12 or even ftr 12 / rog 5 / monk or barb 3. Basically you trade skill pts and SAs for a Power Surge and access to higher-lvl ftr feats such as Tactical Mastery.
    Yes, heavy armor is planned. The build planner doesn't tell me which are the rogue optional feats, except by trial and error, so I just put a feat I was familiar with into that slot. I'll switch something else in, maybe opportunist or skill mastery.

    Its Shadar-Kai with CHA=6, so I wasn't considering Divine Might.

    I do have Harper. Is switching to pumping up INT better with KtA? That would help out Search and Disable rolls.

    Thanks for your help!

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OxfordCalc View Post
    The build planner doesn't tell me which are the rogue optional feats, except by trial and error
    If you click on a specific feat slot in the planner, it should list the valid feats for that slot in the center. Like so:

    I always take Opportunist on my majority-rogue builds for the extra fortification bypass and doublestrike (if melee ofc). After that it's a toss-up: usually I prefer Improved Evasion, but if you're equipping heavy armor, then I guess Skill Mastery or maybe Crippling Strike instead.
    I do have Harper. Is switching to pumping up INT better with KtA? That would help out Search and Disable rolls.
    Well, if you're sticking with STR-based, base INT 16 is sufficient. Again, remember there's a LOT of stat inflation from gear, tomes, etc. that you will eventually get.

    Also noticed you don't have Improved Feint. That's a must-have feat IMO on any build with (A) high sneak attack damage and (B) Cleave attacks, because it renders a group of mobs vulnerable to sneak atks simultaneously. So Feint -> Gt Cleave -> Cleave as needed. In epics you'd add Lay Waste to your rotation presuming you're in Dreadnought. Feint is based on Bluff so you need to max that skill out to go with it.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 01-27-2018 at 03:03 PM.
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  6. #6
    Community Member OxfordCalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    If you click on a specific feat slot in the planner, it should list the valid feats for that slot in the center. Like so:

    I always take Opportunist on my majority-rogue builds for the extra fortification bypass and doublestrike (if melee ofc). After that it's a toss-up: usually I prefer Improved Evasion, but if you're equipping heavy armor, then I guess Skill Mastery or maybe Crippling Strike instead.

    Well, if you're sticking with STR-based, base INT 16 is sufficient. Again, remember there's a LOT of stat inflation from gear, tomes, etc. that you will eventually get.

    Also noticed you don't have Improved Feint. That's a must-have feat IMO on any build with (A) high sneak attack damage and (B) Cleave attacks, because it renders a group of mobs vulnerable to sneak atks simultaneously. So Feint -> Gt Cleave -> Cleave as needed. In epics you'd add Lay Waste to your rotation presuming you're in Dreadnought. Feint is based on Bluff so you need to max that skill out to go with it.
    Well, shoot I had no idea how to find those rogue feats. Kept looking at the Filter box in the lower right. And it tells me what level of that class for the feat also. Thanks for the tip!

    I can swap out improved sunder for improved feint. The wiki says there is some delay before the Bluff occurs. Do I want to wait and see the mobs turn their back on me before hitting Gt Cleave-> cleave?

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