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  1. #1
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    Default Optionals - which are worth the xp?

    Which optionals do you bother doing because its efficient wrt xp?

    I see many an optional that give maybe 1200xp but take 3 mins or worse - and when I am doing 1k+ xp pr. minute otherwise thats obviously not efficient.

    I know - not everything has to be about efficiency - but maybe optionals were actually done more often if they were infact about as good xp as the quest itself.

    To be honest - I dont think I can come up with any optionals that I go out of the way to run for xp - only those that fall into my lap just running by seem to be worth the time.
    Mind, its obviously worth it if the party can split up so some do the optionals while the others do the main quest if it can be done without a significant time loss (Wiz King comes to mind).

    Anyway, which optionals do you consider good *xp* that are not on or almost on the main path of the quest? (not just loot, fun or anything else, but xp).
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Which optionals do you bother doing because its efficient wrt xp?

    I see many an optional that give maybe 1200xp but take 3 mins or worse - and when I am doing 1k+ xp pr. minute otherwise thats obviously not efficient.

    I know - not everything has to be about efficiency - but maybe optionals were actually done more often if they were infact about as good xp as the quest itself.

    To be honest - I dont think I can come up with any optionals that I go out of the way to run for xp - only those that fall into my lap just running by seem to be worth the time.
    Mind, its obviously worth it if the party can split up so some do the optionals while the others do the main quest if it can be done without a significant time loss (Wiz King comes to mind).

    Anyway, which optionals do you consider good *xp* that are not on or almost on the main path of the quest? (not just loot, fun or anything else, but xp).
    Its something you learn with experience. The reward could be a lot of XP or a little XP, but if you care about XP/min then its how long the optional takes which matters. And also whether it is something that can be done if the group splits. Also consider whether doing the optional for XP will get you more XP because you end up getting the Trap / Secret Door bonus, or you kill a lot more mobs for Conquest XP.

    Or, you may care about optionals which are fun. That certainly requires experience.

    With so many hundreds of quests it would take a LOT of time to go through all of the quests and all of the optionals. That said, many years ago a player called MrCow made videos of all his Completionist lives which detailed quest XP as well as any bonus XP he was getting. You could maybe hunt those down.

  3. #3
    Community Member glmfw1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Which optionals do you bother doing because its efficient wrt xp?

    I see many an optional that give maybe 1200xp but take 3 mins or worse - and when I am doing 1k+ xp pr. minute otherwise thats obviously not efficient.

    I know - not everything has to be about efficiency - but maybe optionals were actually done more often if they were infact about as good xp as the quest itself.

    To be honest - I dont think I can come up with any optionals that I go out of the way to run for xp - only those that fall into my lap just running by seem to be worth the time.
    Mind, its obviously worth it if the party can split up so some do the optionals while the others do the main quest if it can be done without a significant time loss (Wiz King comes to mind).

    Anyway, which optionals do you consider good *xp* that are not on or almost on the main path of the quest? (not just loot, fun or anything else, but xp).
    Given the opportunity, I tend to do most optionals, because completing them tends to give more breakables and kills, so while the optional itself does not yield much XP, doing the optional results in meaningful increases in overall quest XP.
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  4. #4

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    I look at efficiency per quest, not efficiency per time, because my time is valueless. So I do all the optionals that I can. I hope one day to find a quest where it's possible to get Conquest, Ransack, Ingenious Debilitation, and Vigilant Sight...but I don't believe there's any quest that lets you get all of them. They're always short either secret doors or traps to hit one or the other benchmark.
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  5. #5
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glmfw1 View Post
    Given the opportunity, I tend to do most optionals, because completing them tends to give more breakables and kills, so while the optional itself does not yield much XP, doing the optional results in meaningful increases in overall quest XP.
    Indeed, conquest, ransack, and sometimes discovery are good motivation to do optionals.

    Most also give extra chests, which give you that (very small) chance at desirable look, like rare augments and tomes.
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  6. #6
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Which optionals do you bother doing because its efficient wrt xp?

    I see many an optional that give maybe 1200xp but take 3 mins or worse - and when I am doing 1k+ xp pr. minute otherwise thats obviously not efficient.

    I know - not everything has to be about efficiency - but maybe optionals were actually done more often if they were infact about as good xp as the quest itself.

    To be honest - I dont think I can come up with any optionals that I go out of the way to run for xp - only those that fall into my lap just running by seem to be worth the time.
    Mind, its obviously worth it if the party can split up so some do the optionals while the others do the main quest if it can be done without a significant time loss (Wiz King comes to mind).

    Anyway, which optionals do you consider good *xp* that are not on or almost on the main path of the quest? (not just loot, fun or anything else, but xp).
    I can't think of the ones I deliberately do right now (i.e. go out of my way to complete). It's always easier in a group to do optional's. In a group, I tend to help on the Onslaught bonus or Breakable Bonus because every group has the individual who makes a straight line for "Finish."

    Ok, 5 minutes later...
    When I do TTT for daily, I do all 5 vampires. It's an additional ~2 minutes.
    When I do Von3 solo, I do all the optional's. That is an extra 3 to 5 minutes.
    I know Mirror and a few others are the same way. If you know the route, the optionals only add a ~1 to 2 minutes.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I look at optionals more than just xp. in some quests you cant get ransack, ingeneous, or conquest unless you do the optional. optionals can unlock certain things in the Monster Manual or you get that much closer to unlocking things in the Monster Manual which some grant more xp. as an example, usually by the time I run A Relic of a Sovereign Past I unlock a couple dwarf MM and get around 11k and 6k xp. I consider a lot of chests consisting of junk loot that just go towards boosting my Cannith crafting levels, but there is renown usually or that slight chance of pulling a named item that you could sell, use, or feed to your Sentient weapon. optionals aren't always good xp, but I don't play for xp/min or necessarily for the xp itself. I don't care if it takes me 5 seconds or 5 minutes because in the end I am still getting something out of it right then or later on.
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  8. #8
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    Monster manual is a good point. Some optional areas may have mob types that give good MM xp. Fun is obviously always a good point but not the focus of this particular thread

    Spending 1-2 min in Mirror for 1/20 the xp of the quest itself which takes 10-12 mins inclusive running to the place obviously isnt effective. Thats pretty much the point I am trying to make.
    Spending 3-5 mins extra in VoN3 is though because the xp is substantial enough.

    As for ransack etc. these are obviously nice but sometimes going after them is also not efficient. If you are running a first time reaper streak at ~400% base then getting another +20% base xp is only 1/20. Thus getting that extra +20% in a 10 min quest may only take 30 sec. Sometimes thats doable but other times its not. Going as a principle after all kinds of bonusses is all good for the fun of it but often it wont be efficient if it slows down completion.

    Overall, I simply wish that optionals would always give meaningful xp. Simply scaling them by the static bonusses for first time, bravery, tome of learning and daily might do the trick though its not something I have explicitely calculated. Further, make optionals give rxp when the quest is done on reaper. Imho it would be better for the game if most or all optionals were usually worth doing as that adds often used content to the game.
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    The only optional that immediately springs to mind is disrupting the drow ritual in Servants of the Overlord. Takes a minute or two and pays 10K + and a chest with potential named weapons. I'm sure there are others as good as this but brain not functioning properly as I've been at work for 7 hours.

  10. #10
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Spending 1-2 min in Mirror for 1/20 the xp of the quest itself which takes 10-12 mins inclusive running to the place obviously isnt effective. Thats pretty much the point I am trying to make.
    Spending 3-5 mins extra in VoN3 is though because the xp is substantial enough.
    Did you factor in time getting to quest, waiting for your PUG, loading screens etc? Mirror might be 10 minutes by itself, but if you're spending another 5 getting there than the efficiency of said optional rises.

    Personally I tend to do ones that give a meaningful amount of xp (not the 76 xp ones) that aren't a pain. I enjoy playing DDO, and while I do favor higher xp/minute quests I also enjoy the game itself. There's more to DDO than XP/minute for me, or I'd just put in a few hours of overtime and buy Otto's Boxes - far higher xp/minute that way than by playing the game. Even just running constant 50% pots would go far, and I can afford a lot more than two hour's worth of them for an hour of work.

    Personally I tend to aim for Conquest/Ransack bonuses if they're easy to obtain - I never do breaks in Kobold's New Ringleader, but I'll always do them in Spies. I always kill the vamps in Legend Revisited, and I do all opts in Von3, but for Bargain Bazaar I do the assassination logbook and then just zerg for the boss - I skip everything else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  11. #11

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    Regardless of heroic or epic, I always do the puzzle in Ghost of a Chance.

  12. #12
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreadNecromancer View Post
    Regardless of heroic or epic, I always do the puzzle in Ghost of a Chance.
    Likewise. Its easy, fast and decent XP
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  13. #13
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    If it's not staring at you when you run through, it's not worth it. The examples given pretty much encompass this philosophy: vampires in legend revisited where you kill 1/2 or 3/4 of them just to complete anyway. VON3 large rewards for single kills mostly on the path, of note here is the guy on the cliff who is not right in your face, and Mrist which is needed for ransack but a little out of the way. Ghost of a chance the puzzle is a big boost to xp in heroic and not much in epic, but the epic fight is annoying enough it's still nice option. Mirror you can get the beholder easily and the books with minimal investment but the hound trainer is too much time and the assassin is only worth it if you have great burst damage imo. I'm surprised to see the drow ritual in servants mentioned as that one has real class/ability restrictions to be able to complete it, must have evasion on the switch or someone pulling all the agro (maybe it's just easier these days with all the power creep).

  14. #14
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreadNecromancer View Post
    Regardless of heroic or epic, I always do the puzzle in Ghost of a Chance.
    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Likewise. Its easy, fast and decent XP
    Aaaaand I never do it. Ok I've done it like 3x, but it's a huge pain to me and I'd rather just zerg through a quick fight instead of spending 5 minutes with Wiki tabbed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  15. #15
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Aaaaand I never do it. Ok I've done it like 3x, but it's a huge pain to me and I'd rather just zerg through a quick fight instead of spending 5 minutes with Wiki tabbed.
    The correct nodes are easy to learn.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    My general rule is if the optional is on the way; it's probably worth it. If not; then let random pug members do the optionals while I'm busy zerging. Gives them a chance to up everyone's xp/min.

    VoN3? Optionals are usually worth it.

    Mirror? The beholder's worth it if you're on heroic or on EN/EH; on EE+ it just has too much HP to burn down in reasonable time and barely gives more xp then EN/EH. The notes are probably not worth it, but are something party members can do while you zerg.

    Ghost of a chance? I do the puzzle on heroic, it's good xp and fast when you know it. Faster if you have 2 people who know it and can split up the work. I don't usually run this quest on epic as I'm disappointed the puzzle doesn't give xp.

    Servants? I've sort of stopped doing optionals in this one. Typically I'm doing it at a difficulty I find challenging and don't want to spend resources on unnecessary killing. Back when I used to run it on easier difficulties I would do the collectables optional only. My recent builds haven't been ones that can easily solo the drow ritual.

    In general; optionals have fallen behind because we have such huge first-time bonuses to quests which don't effect optionals, and I am really confused about how optionals work in reaper. I mean I'll complete them and see the reaper XP for the quest go up... then check the xp report 2 minutes later and it's fallen back down again. Do you have to complete optionals within 2 min of finishing the quest to get the reaper xp? But no, I feel like the xp report isn't accurate and it requires some actual testing to see if the optionals give xp... and since first time bonuses and ransack are a thing this kind of testing isn't trivially easy to do so I haven't tried it yet.
    Especially since I can't open reaper mode on a first life character created for testing purposes.
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  17. #17
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    There are many ways to approach "Optional" aspects of quests...

    Any time reviewing optional based on Experience will find some are very good and some are very poor especially when measured in XP per Time. And there are some that get better with knowledge and in some cases available abilities/skills

    ---
    Personally I'm of the kind that would prefer to run the "whole" quest but that is because I measure my fun based on time playing and try to avoid the time playing me .

    Yes, I can spend 4 hours running Tower of Elemental Evil and have fun all 240 minutes

    ------
    The other thing to consider though is defining "optional" objective value on XP alone actually ignores other aspects that these can provide.

    1. Monster Manual rewards - XP, resources and game knowledge. Sure there is a finite aspect but it can be fun tracking down a rare objective
    2. Collectables - More for the crafting aspect, but it can keep you flush with materials for the various systems of crafting
    3. The sense of seeing aspects missed or even forgotten. I've had fun taking players that have been around since Beta through Quests they have run only to realize the quest "Is New" because they are someplace they don't remember or even never have gone.

  18. #18
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    The correct nodes are easy to learn.
    And hitting things is easier. Your point?
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  19. #19
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    TOEE slayers up to 750. Very descent XP. I usually get two ranks at level (hn is 7)
    Thats about 75 minutes of killing spiders if you find the second nest near the entrance.

    You can go for 1500, but thats another 75 minutes.
    I only do that If I have something else to keep me occupied, a book or a sporting event.

  20. #20
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    And hitting things is easier. Your point?
    Hitting things takes more time.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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