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  1. #1
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    Default Air savant vs Shirardi for reaper?

    Trying to figure out which is a better option for Reaper? I'm currently running Farwind's Air Savant build, but find it a bit squishy and lacking in CC. Electric Loop is nice to stun, but the rest is pretty expensive. Seems like a Shirardi Archmage get's better SLAs and can build up evocation and enchantment?

    Thoughs?

    Thank you in advance!

    Syrrys on Sarlona

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanker View Post
    Trying to figure out which is a better option for Reaper? I'm currently running Farwind's Air Savant build, but find it a bit squishy and lacking in CC. Electric Loop is nice to stun, but the rest is pretty expensive. Seems like a Shirardi Archmage get's better SLAs and can build up evocation and enchantment?

    Thoughs?

    Thank you in advance!

    Syrrys on Sarlona
    I am not familiar with the build you are playing, but they can all work. The advantage of Wizard is the ability to splash 3 other levels without losing level 9 spells and the extra feats. If you go shiradi you really want to twist in favored soul levels for just reward which regenerates alot of spell points. With the lost souls you might be able to get by without favored levels. There are 2 key level 9 spells for the build : Mass Hold and Energy Drain. Mass Hold not only cc's but increases damage to the enemies for the whole party. Energy drain+ enervation is the easy button way to quickly bring down hp in orange named enemies. Since the shiradi paralysis creates helplessness mass hold isn't crucial but still helpful. Energy drain is simply a time saver as most orange named that can be energy drained can also be cc;'d

    So I have also been looking at reviving my shiradi dc wizard and am debating between:

    17 wizard / 3 fighter

    15 wizard / 3 fighter / 2 fvs

    17 wizard / 3 favored soul

    For mostly group play I would go 17 wizard / 3 fighter and hope lost souls is enough for spell points. For optimal soloing I would go 15 wizard / 3 fighter / 2 fvs giving up the level 9 spells for better spell point regeneration. the 3 fighter levels gives you alot of benefits including 2 feats which can be used for shield mastery and improved shield mastery. With that you can equip epic skyvault shield in one hand a weapon in the other which will give you PRR/MRR and 20% bonus hp from the stalwart defender tree.

    The 17 wizard / 3 fighter setup gives you 4 bonus wizard feats and 2 bonus fighter feats.

    For general and wizard feats from 1-20 (7 standard + 4 wizard)
    - Empower
    - Maximize
    - Quicken
    - Extend
    - Spell Penetration
    - Greater Spell Penetration
    - Insightful Reflexes
    - Heighten
    - Spell Focus Enchantment
    - Greater Spell Focus Enchantment
    - Completionist or past life wizard if you have it - otherwise mental toughness or toughness. Shield deflection is also a consideration for blocking elemental damage.

    Fighter feats (take these at higher levels due to BAB requirement of improved shield mastery)
    - shield mastery
    - improved shield mastery

    Epic Feats
    - Epic Spell Penetration
    - Master of Knowledge
    - Spell Power Force
    - Embolden
    - Hellball , Elusive Target or toughness for 28 destiny feat
    - Arcane Pulse
    - Intensify Spell (for SLAs) or alternatively arcane insight for tough fights where enemies have higher saves - could go epic toughness (combined with toughness at 28) if you are feeling squishy after the 20% hp boost. Could even go epic enchantment here. Burst of Glacial Wrath is another option against high will save mobs.
    - Scion of the Plane of Feywild to max enchantment DC or Scion of the Plane of Fire for DPS. Toss up depending on what your DC is with/without the feat.

    I am also on Sarlona and will be off work for the next 3 weeks and playing more than usual. I am happy to help you get gear for whatever build you have. All my characters start with Rand in the guild Guardians of House Cannith.

    3 fighter is the easy button wizard splash for being less squishy. 40 PRR 15 MRR and 20% hp bonus without giving up much of anything. My gut tells me 15 /3 /2 is the way to go over 17/3, but both should work.

    A few items I would look at equipping

    - Nightmother Sceptre (I have a good way to farm this if you need it)
    - epic skyvault shield (need this or medium + armor for 20% hp bonus)
    - legendary spinneret
    - legendary pansophic circlet
    - legendary barovian nobles regalia (you can get away with lower mrr capped at 50 since you have insightful reflexes giving a high reflex save)
    - force spellpower and lore likely from slavers pieces to make 3 piece set
    Last edited by slarden; 12-20-2017 at 08:18 AM.

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Shiradi is too random, just another "ranged dps".

    Sorcerer, any savant can get very high DCs for Mass Hold, Greater Shout, Web, Flesh to Stone, Halt Undead for awesome reaper crowd control.

    Shahang (hjeal me), Wipekin (tempest), Nezhat (barbie) Ghallanda/Devourer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wipey View Post
    Shiradi is too random, just another "ranged dps".

    Sorcerer, any savant can get very high DCs for Mass Hold, Greater Shout, Web, Flesh to Stone, Halt Undead for awesome reaper crowd control.
    I wouldn't think in terms of the traditional "dump dc" shiradi caster.

    You can get a very high DC with both builds as DCs are fairly easy to achieve in the current game. The reason to go Shiradi would be to increase dps while still having a workable dc. With shiradi vs. draconic you lose 3 dc from the 6 int available in draconic and 5 spell pen. I can easily give that up and still reach no fail which is what makes shiradi so appealing with the current game. With the extra feats a wizard gets - you can cover those dc with the extra feats.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    You can get a very high DC with both builds as DCs are fairly easy to achieve in the current game. The reason to go Shiradi would be to increase dps while still having a workable dc. With shiradi vs. draconic you lose 3 dc from the 6 int available in draconic and 5 spell pen. I can easily give that up and still reach no fail which is what makes shiradi so appealing with the current game. With the extra feats a wizard gets - you can cover those dc with the extra feats.
    "workable" or "no fail" where? EN? EH? EE? 1 skull? 5 skulls? No-fail in at-level 10 skull runs?

    Workable DCs+DPS in dailies is one thing. But I'm skeptical that it's "fairly easy" to do both in actual difficult content. However, I haven't been in Epic/Legendary lately, so maybe I'm wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    "workable" or "no fail" where? EN? EH? EE? 1 skull? 5 skulls? No-fail in at-level 10 skull runs?

    Workable DCs+DPS in dailies is one thing. But I'm skeptical that it's "fairly easy" to do both in actual difficult content. However, I haven't been in Epic/Legendary lately, so maybe I'm wrong.
    I an referring specifically to reaper.

    For Ravenloft in Reaper 3-6 skulls, but also some 10 skull runs like tempest spine for example. I haven't yet run any of the Ravenloft quests above 6 skulls. Again, this is a wizard focusing on enchantment and in general will saves are the easiest to overcome. For an example DC calculation you can take a look at my warlock build which is necro-focused. I am holding most everything without the use of crushing despair and without the use of mind fog with a 99 dc. Even on a deep alt with much lower DC I am hitting the # in 3 skull without an issue. No-fail against almost all enemies. By workable I mean no-fail against most without the use of debuffs and in some cases the use of debuffs are needed.

    The only enemies I use crushing despair on in ravenloft is shadows of hate (not a 100% enchantment dc with 99 and can't be instakilled). For a wizard I can toss a mind fog, dancing sphere then crushing despair - so as a wizard you have better options for fights like that where you can't land the spells 100% without debuffing.

    An enchantment focused wizard can beat my DC due to extra feat slots (3 more DC) , 3 from enchantment DC twist (I twist necro), higher base # (8 for dancing sphere vs. my 6 for mass hold so a net of at least 2), 2 from choice of scion. That is a net of 10 which exceeds the 7 bonus I get from my exalted Angel destiny (3 universal + 8 charisma for another 4 universal). So yeah as a wizard in Shiradi you will beat my workable dc of 99 and have more spell choices.

    Also since there are so many options for universal dc boosts, finger, web, pk and many other spells will have good enough dcs against specific enemies targeting their low/mid save. So you can finger a human arcane in most cases but not an ogre melee.

    If a party wants a cc specialist for 10 skull - swap into magister for the extra 6 int, additional debuffing, extra spell pen, dc clicky etc. When soloing 3 skull for example you don't need that dc so why not go into shiradi for more dps to complete the quest quicker and reduce risk from champs and reapers by killing them quicker. That is the thing with destiny, it's not fixed for a build.
    Last edited by slarden; 12-21-2017 at 05:42 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    For Ravenloft in Reaper 3-6 skulls...

    I am holding most everything without the use of crushing despair and without the use of mind fog with a 99 dc.
    I haven't played Ravenloft yet. I didn't realize they'd made new expansion Legendary-level quests have such low mob saves. Thanks for the info.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I haven't played Ravenloft yet. I didn't realize they'd made new expansion Legendary-level quests have such low mob saves. Thanks for the info.
    The stats aren't really any lower in Ravenloft. They added small amounts of stat inflation with the xpac and didn't significantly increase the saves - a good thing for people without past life bonuses. These dcs will work well in all legendary content.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The stats aren't really any lower in Ravenloft. They added small amounts of stat inflation with the xpac and didn't significantly increase the saves - a good thing for people without past life bonuses. These dcs will work well in all legendary content.
    Aye i Think ssg did a good choise in the difficulties of ravenloft. Not harder than the last quests before and you get better (a tad higher stat + sent). So it will be a tad easier on same difficulties as you usually run on.

    But thanks to reaper 1-10 you can anyway try on a difficulty that will be brutal, if you wish :-)

  10. #10
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    No such thing as having too high DCs.
    Not just about Mass Holds or stuff, but every spell becomes more reliable and useful on more targets.
    Ravenloft, hard hitting trash, Web, Hypno, Flesh to Stone, Grater Shout, Spray, Sunburst(!), Undead to Death, Halt Undead, Implosion - you name it, every spell has its use.

    I do have what, 107 enchant and 100 necro on sorc now, wish I had more.
    Would never trade reliability for bit of randomized low ish damage.

    And the higher the skulls, the more apparent the weakness of Leeroying with Shiradi ish spam becomes.
    Last edited by Wipey; 12-22-2017 at 09:42 AM.

    Shahang (hjeal me), Wipekin (tempest), Nezhat (barbie) Ghallanda/Devourer

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