View Poll Results: Should we have the option to avoid TRing and still get PLs

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  • Yes

    17 15.89%
  • No

    90 84.11%
  • Undecided or N/A

    0 0%
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  1. #1
    Community Member Wonedream's Avatar
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    Default "Should we have the option to avoid TRing and still get PLs"

    "Should we have the option to avoid TRing and still get PLs"
    -AArrows Of Fire

    - Yes
    - No
    - Undecided or N/A

    Give a reason for your choice and/or a suggestion for what options to avoid TRing should be available if you voted yes.

    AArrows Of Fire suggested it, and so I jumped on the suggestion and here it is. I'd like to see the results. I hope this poll serves well.
    Last edited by Wonedream; 08-31-2017 at 05:06 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    I'd rather see the current issues with TRing get resolved and a significant improvement on CS for if/when issues come up.

    DDO is a niche game, and has features that are unique to it. It's part of why I play it instead of the plethora of other games out there (not that I play DDO exclusively, but with so many games out there, I choose my games with a bit of care). TRing - while optional - is one of those things that makes DDO stand out imo.

    I have characters that I do play often who have never TRed, and they are lots of fun (it's why I play them). Some of them are comfortable in hard, some are comfortable in elite, and some can dabble in reaper as well. But even so, I would rather see CS improved for those suffering TR woes and see TRing get fixed before having TRing removed and it's in game mechanical perks replaced by something else. (and there are non-mechanical perks as well. Trying out different builds without having to make a completely new character. Not everyone has a large stable for alts at the ready).

  3. #3
    Community Member FuryFlash's Avatar
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    I personally believe that Past Lives are bound in name and nature to the Reincarnation system that DDO has offered for years. These exact feats and bonuses should not be attainable anywhere other than by the methods currently available. That being said, I am not opposed to adding new systems to the game which allow for further character progression, customisation and/or playstyle options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I'm not saying TRing isn't optional but its kind of optional in the way that defeating the waves in Devil Assault are optional.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AArrows_Of_Fire View Post
    I personally believe that Past Lives are bound in name and nature to the Reincarnation system that DDO has offered for years. These exact feats and bonuses should not be attainable anywhere other than by the methods currently available. That being said, I am not opposed to adding new systems to the game which allow for further character progression, customisation and/or playstyle options.
    ^^ this

    Past lives go with TR-ing. It wouldn't make sense to get a 'past life' without actually have a previous life to have a past life for (if you see what I mean).

    However, other reasons to stay at end game and accumulate goodies of some kind would be a good thing. Its why I'm interested to see what this sentient weapons business is all about.

  5. #5
    Community Member Wonedream's Avatar
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    I understand the niche this game is based on is mostly composed of people who like TRing, find it unique, and to their preference.

    And I would never ask nor support them losing that.

    I think this game will do better if it had a second niche base though, and my own observation tells me that the current niche is constraining growth of player population to people who like TRing, while preventing a much larger audience of people who do not like TRing from even considering to do something they do not like to do.

    It is fact that most games and gamers do not TR, and games that lack TR system are prevailing in popularity. While games with TR systems are not.

    I would not want a replacement, but an installation to expand the market niche and make this game more feasible so its development can improve.

    Then we might see those bugs get fixed...

    And other good things we don't see, and many say budget over and over...

    This is all connected, and my consideration is for the health of this game in terms of how much money it makes and how large its population gets or watching it decline.


    I will likely be outnumbered by those very people supporting the niche holding this game to an extent, while constraining it to another extent.


    I do not see how me playing the same amount of content capped for PLs effects them or stops them from TRing when I am asking for an option, not a replacement.

    I do not understand why the many voices and threads asking for endgame material see only more TRs?

    I see no reason to make it one option only, this equates to a forced method of acquisition, and turns this essentially into a TR game.


    I am pleased to see that the developers are thinking about a broader audience and that sentient weapons are capped 30.

    I hope this game can reach a larger niche base then the one it is watching shrink into possible server merges.

    TR niche is shrinking into possible server merges.

    That is what I am seeing discussed.

    I ask those who love this game to consider the bigger picture then their niche, and imagine a game that attracts players of many niches, not just their niche.

    It would be the best sort of game I can think of, getting people of different niches to play together, without actually messing up their particular niche even. Just providing options they can either participate in or not. No one is forced to Pvp. If PvP had a better niche system, PvP players would play DDO for PvP, and TR players would keep playing for TRing. There would be more players in the game, doing what they like to do, then otherwise. And thus, populations would increase.

    If the developers really want to make money, they will have to make this game as universally appealing as possible.

    If they want to squeeze money, they will focus on a niche, which is basic business strategy. Get a few niches, calculate basic income, maintain it... you got your lifestyle fixed.

    Increasing the revenue means doing something different, reaching for more niches, and attracting business.


    My vote is not sentimental, it is calculating and aimed at overall growth potentials being established to make way for expansion of population.


    How is this game going to attract NEW PLAYERS? It knows how to keep the old players, but it isn't attracting new players. Thus, servers are declining.



    This is a real problem ladies and gentlemen.


    I am not is talking about taking your game away, but about making it a more universal game for other people too, while maintaining it as you know it.


    We should be identifying various niches and figuring out how to attract other populations because we offer those niches and more.

    We should be strategically thinking about the market and how to increase our population.

    We should be thinking how to make this game a high budget game.


    And it is with these thoughts in consideration that I vote we add options to avoid TRing and still get PLs, to help expand the market by adding an end game niche side by side with the TR niche, there will be more positive threads coming from everything if this happens. I predict it will help make this game better and the proof will be a larger participation as the player base and population increase.

  6. #6
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    No, not to get past lives. A different system that gives bonuses with the same type (non-stacking) could be ok though.

  7. #7
    Community Member Wonedream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    No, not to get past lives. A different system that gives bonuses with the same type (non-stacking) could be ok though.
    And if that requires running an equal amount of game content - quests - to get, how would me playing just as long but staying capped effect you playing just as long but TRing?

    I would have more fun playing the game.

    You would still have fun playing the game.

    People who play games that don't have a TR system might find this game more appealing?

    It won't lose its niche either. TRing is an option, capping is another. Gives two niches right there.

    Do you think this game's survival is hinged on that niche?

  8. #8
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    Well this was overwhelmingly defeated.

    I will say this - I don't think you should have to Epic TR. I have always thought it was stupid to go from 28/30 back to 20 often while running in destinies that make your character perform poorly. Why force people to do this? In Heroic TRs everyone is playing optimized TR builds. Why is my Wizard forced to run through Legendary Dreadnaught or Grandmaster of Flowers? They could encourage at Cap play by allowing to collect epic XP at L30. Once you get 6 million XP (in any sphere) after Ll30 you can change that in for an Epic Past Life.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonedream View Post
    And if that requires running an equal amount of game content - quests - to get, how would me playing just as long but staying capped effect you playing just as long but TRing?

    I would have more fun playing the game.

    You would still have fun playing the game.

    People who play games that don't have a TR system might find this game more appealing?

    It won't lose its niche either. TRing is an option, capping is another. Gives two niches right there.

    Do you think this game's survival is hinged on that niche?
    Did you even consider my response? I suggested a different option that overlaps some TR effects (non-stacking). Maybe Karma or an ED reset, it should have some tangible cost but allow you to stay at 30. (you could get them from karma without ever losing character power or you could trade ED experience and get them faster, any sphere or ED you don't want to be locked into running something unfun, this is balanced because you can't just dump every ED to get them fast or you lose all your twists)

    I'd suggest about 80% or more effect overlapping:
    introduce some spellfocus bonuses that can only be at cap and leave a couple only for pastlives (non-overlapping part)
    give a way to get +6 ranged damage and +3 damage at cap (basically an option to skip rng and mnk PLs, but miss the resist from rng)
    9 spell pen available at cap. (skip fvs and wiz pasts, maybe 1 wiz for the active feat)
    hp/sp bonus (barb PL, partial cover of fvs/sorc)
    some turn undead bonuses (these could be stacking, it needs it)
    epic skill boost (non-stacking with arti past, but +2 to all skills vs +3 to int skills and umd. partial overlap)
    hireling stat boost to offset druid past
    Hamp to avoid pally lives

    These are just some quick suggestions that would allow many things to be a choice of where to get it while making some unique bonuses from each path. This is a much better approach than: you get a clr past life while playing your wizard at cap.
    Last edited by Cantor; 08-31-2017 at 07:49 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    no, the explanation itself is... weird

    want heroic pl? heroic tr
    want epic pl? epic pl
    want reaper xp? run reaper
    want sentient weapons? stay at 30

    i can't understand why you are asking for more options in 1 part (which is optional, it's not like tr'ing makes you better prepared for the non existant endgame) but in the same post you are saying how happy you are that another part is exclusive for lvl 30

    maybe for you it makes sense, for me it does not, having diversity of options in everything is not always better from my pov, but being exclusive is even worse from my pov, wanna be able to get everything at every lvl? ok, but every option possible, not "this one cause i'm obssessed with ot"

    i see it like having reaper xp and or pl shared account, put all or put none, once the system is released if wanna be fair, try being fair for everybody

    meanwhile i'm forced to vote no, cause it was released and accepted one way, if want change for betters, the changes should be for everybody and... i don't see that option in the poll
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  11. #11
    Community Member Keladon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal_Lannes View Post
    Well this was overwhelmingly defeated.

    I will say this - I don't think you should have to Epic TR. I have always thought it was stupid to go from 28/30 back to 20 often while running in destinies that make your character perform poorly. Why force people to do this? In Heroic TRs everyone is playing optimized TR builds. Why is my Wizard forced to run through Legendary Dreadnaught or Grandmaster of Flowers? They could encourage at Cap play by allowing to collect epic XP at L30. Once you get 6 million XP (in any sphere) after Ll30 you can change that in for an Epic Past Life.
    He isn't? I don't think it was intended for someone to use the exact same build to get all the epic past lives.
    Get your Arcane past lives with a caster, ETR & TR and then get the martial past lives with a melee/ranged build.

    It's not that I don't get it, I got my Arcane past lives by using a melee and the fatesinger destiny, but they hardly "force" you to do that.
    Last edited by Keladon; 08-31-2017 at 08:16 AM.
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  12. #12
    DDO Players Council Renvar's Avatar
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    I voted No. Because PL's are something you earn via reincarnation. However, as other posters have stated before me, I agree that an At Cap character progression system THAT DOES NOT STACK WITH PL's and allows players to play at cap and earn MRR, PRR, AC, HP, Damage, etc. etc. would be advantageous and beneficial.

    We don't need to add more power. But offering more ways to obtain the same power level would be fine.
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  13. #13
    Community Member warryofjerry's Avatar
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    I should be able buy lives from the DDO store, Box of Otto's Lives 9999 TP

  14. #14
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    I don't think you should be able to get a full past life while staying at cap (there still needs to be an incentive to TR), but I'd be all for being able to get most of the past life effects as non-stacking (with actual PLs) bonuses. 200 heart seeds per inherent feat or something along those lines.

  15. #15
    Community Member warryofjerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    I don't think you should be able to get a full past life while staying at cap (there still needs to be an incentive to TR), but I'd be all for being able to get most of the past life effects as non-stacking (with actual PLs) bonuses. 200 heart seeds per inherent feat or something along those lines.

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  16. #16

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    Past life TRs are just a grind. What's the difference? Grinding at cap and grinding at heroics?
    Gain a wizard past life just to get a +1 Passive Past Life Spell Penetration... May be there should be an extremely long quest at cap just to do that.

    Plus, its an annoyance (read: no fun) to clean out the TR cache, and then to reset all raid counters and favor counters. Literally took hours just to do house and inventory cleaning.

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  17. #17
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    No.

    First of all, it doesn't make sense lore wise.

    Secondly, the past life system is there to reward those who want to grind and invest more time in game. They also exist to give the game more replay value. Removing the TR requirement would majorly devalue the time investment of many people in addition to removing a huge portion of the incentive to replay the game.

  18. #18

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    I voted 'yes' because the original intend of the rebuild characters was that someone made a mistake in their build and wanted to 'reroll' their character. Developers put in an incentive for people to re-roll their characters and gain a very minor benefit. As a side effect, the very minor benefits add up and people grind like Korean MMO to gain all the past lives. This also does not made sense lore wise to any tabletop D&D.

    Now, there's a huge disparity to the people who stayed at cap and for those who grinded their Heoric TRs and RTRs.

    If this is grouping MMO for fun and I think it is, there should be also an incentive for people who choose not to heroic TR or RTR.

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  19. #19
    Community Member bls904c2's Avatar
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    tr system is half the game and should not be minimized

    i think they have a good system in place going back and forth between the 2 systems

    1 tr system which was heroic TR with addition of the epic TR with Iconic TR then the recent introduction of racial PL

    2 cap playing/ raid scene which has Green Steel then S/S/S system then went to TF weapons then to LGS and now with upcoming sentient weapons which i heard was level 28 and above will prob be the next raid loot.

    i look at reaper as the system put in place to slow people down in quests which was the red alert then champs then reaper as a means to slow game play down

    please be patient for the pendulum swings both main systems

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by bls904c2 View Post
    [...] and now with upcoming sentient weapons which i heard was level 28 and above will prob be the next raid loot.

    [...]
    It's not level 28. Its level 30 Bound to character.

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