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  1. #1
    Community Member Greyhawk6's Avatar
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    Default Positive Post!! Precious Cargo - an example of what this game is capable of

    I just did this for the first time today.

    I've never seen a quest like it in any MMO I've played. Ship to ship combat, an army you can assign to tasks, boarding other ships, repairing under fire...I mean, this sort of stuff is DDO through and through. I never could quite put my finger on why TESO sucked so much but I think its this...the quests are uninspired junk. Given the sheer wealth of resources available to an engine and game like TESO they opted for generic boring and linear stuff. Its basically the same quest over and over again.

    In DDO, I zone into a new quest with just no idea what to expect. Yeah, sometimes they opt for easy but where its easy it makes sense that its easy...I mean what could kobolds do in a sewer really? An ogre isnt going to be able to muster much beyond where is my dinner, where is my club and bash anything that moves. Then you zone into a mindflayer zone and get your brain eaten by an insane mind flayer who loves to dress misshapen fools in strange hats..!

    No MMO I know of lets you have a drinking game with a bunch of drunk beholders. Or lets you enter a besotted halfling's mind...

    My advice, take a step back and just have a look at the quest designs compared to other MMO's. Even LotRO - the Prince Charming to DDO's Shrek has the same boring generic meh quest structure.

    Whats your favourite off-the-wall quest?

  2. #2

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    see my sig for some ecology reviews
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight Templar of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist); Parked Toons: Katwoemyn (10), Saelegion (4), Alitirala (>17), Naerfelka (>21)
    wounded and burnt from many mistakes and still stumbling!


  3. #3
    Community Member Greyhawk6's Avatar
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    Seems ecology is directly proportional to obvious time spent.

    ie. Siegebreaker - tons of time getting it right - good ecology

    TOEE - copy/paste of dungeon, 5 minutes placing mobs...went for a beer and a burger - bad ecology.

    A game like DDO immediately highlights when devs just couldn't be bothered as the moments of pure creativity are so obvious.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk6 View Post
    I just did this for the first time today.

    I've never seen a quest like it in any MMO I've played. Ship to ship combat, an army you can assign to tasks, boarding other ships, repairing under fire...I mean, this sort of stuff is DDO through and through. I never could quite put my finger on why TESO sucked so much but I think its this...the quests are uninspired junk. Given the sheer wealth of resources available to an engine and game like TESO they opted for generic boring and linear stuff. Its basically the same quest over and over again.

    In DDO, I zone into a new quest with just no idea what to expect. Yeah, sometimes they opt for easy but where its easy it makes sense that its easy...I mean what could kobolds do in a sewer really? An ogre isnt going to be able to muster much beyond where is my dinner, where is my club and bash anything that moves. Then you zone into a mindflayer zone and get your brain eaten by an insane mind flayer who loves to dress misshapen fools in strange hats..!

    No MMO I know of lets you have a drinking game with a bunch of drunk beholders. Or lets you enter a besotted halfling's mind...

    My advice, take a step back and just have a look at the quest designs compared to other MMO's. Even LotRO - the Prince Charming to DDO's Shrek has the same boring generic meh quest structure.

    Whats your favourite off-the-wall quest?
    Just about every quest in DDO is unique and memorable in some way, which helps explain the longevity of this game. Possible competitors to DDO like Neverwinter Online and the Elder Scrolls Online are very boring, generic games despite being made by triple AAA studios with sizable budgets. Nothing is inspired about any of those games' content.

  5. #5
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    It would take a long time to list all the things I enjoy about this game.

    Absolutely fantastic solo options for a multiplayer game.
    Assassination that even works on mini-bosses.
    Cannith Challenges. They are completely unique to DDO and require brain power to master.
    Expansive character progression. (Unfortunately, this progression system deeply divides group players.)
    Many dungeons include unique topography that allow you to bottle neck, corner, or evade monsters to great advantage.
    Monsters alert their allies to hostile forces. (I know many people hate Dungeon Alert but the actual communication part is realistic and neat. In every other multiplayer game, monsters standing ten feet away just watch while you kill their allies. Not in DDO!)
    Monsters constantly try to flank you in melee combat. Kobolds jump up and out of melee range.
    Monsters do not mess around. They often unleash their most powerful attacks quickly and often.
    Monsters use a broad range of abilities. It takes a long time to learn them all and develop successful counter strategies.
    Maze dungeons requiring effort to learn and master.
    Multi-level dungeons creating many unique tactical situations.
    Puzzles that actually require some thought.
    Secret passages.
    Stealth mode with teeth.
    Traps!
    Underwater movement.
    Vast treasure system with numerous strange affects offering useful situational advantages.
    Very deep ability progression system.



    DDO is really the multiplayer game for smart people. Unfortunately, the vast progression system also serves as an Achilles' Heel. It spreads out group players, makes it difficult to challenge powerful characters, and homogenizes characters over time erasing role based group play.

  6. #6
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    Home Sweet Sewer

    Kobold still hates you!

  7. #7
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Human_Cypher View Post
    Just about every quest in DDO is unique and memorable in some way, which helps explain the longevity of this game. Possible competitors to DDO like Neverwinter Online and the Elder Scrolls Online are very boring, generic games despite being made by triple AAA studios with sizable budgets. Nothing is inspired about any of those games' content.
    I strongly disagree. What gives DDO longevity are the DnD brand and the TR system. DnD keeps people hooked, as there isn't any other MMO that mirrors PnP so well; this has the value of allowing for a lot of well thought out classes (as opposed to generic MMO garbage). A lot of us no grinders stay for this reason.

    Then there is the TR system to keep those who just look for "stuff to do" IG. There is "endless" stuff to do.

    But the quests themselves often don't have much replay value. When I run with vets sometimes someone will mention how they enjoyed a quest the first time, but 99% of the time is speed running content. And when something that allows to bypass a significant part of the quest is widely known, most groups I know just do that.

    That is not to say that content is not fun in the first run. There are some good quests in DDO. A lot of the more recent ones though are pretty bad. To the point that they look like a caricature of the original quests (e.g. creeping death).

  8. #8
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    Some that come to mind....

    Haunted Halls of Eveningstar is the best translation of a module to a video game that I have ever seen. If you go into it with a group of like minded people who want to explore the Halls and not just get the XP/Loot the quest is simply amazing.

    A Study in Sable - not for everyone but its a frickin murder mystery game turned into a quest!

    Litany of the Dead/Ascension Chamber/Mark of Death - All interconnected this series of quests is simply awesome. First you have to work your way through the Black Abbot's allies, then you must stop the Abbot from his goal of becoming a frickin god! Is there anything more epic than that? Ascension Chamber is one of the best raids ever designed and used to be a truly epic fight "I call the INFERNO Xendrick shall burn!". That line wiped more than a few parties. Then the story of Erandis in Mark of Death is actually moving and I find her a tragic figure.

    There are many others, these are just a few that always remind me what great quest design and ideas have been put into the game.


    I am Awesomesauce!

  9. #9
    Community Member Rys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk6 View Post
    I just did this for the first time today.

    I've never seen a quest like it in any MMO I've played. Ship to ship combat, an army you can assign to tasks, boarding other ships, repairing under fire...I mean, this sort of stuff is DDO through and through. I never could quite put my finger on why TESO sucked so much but I think its this...the quests are uninspired junk. Given the sheer wealth of resources available to an engine and game like TESO they opted for generic boring and linear stuff. Its basically the same quest over and over again.

    In DDO, I zone into a new quest with just no idea what to expect. Yeah, sometimes they opt for easy but where its easy it makes sense that its easy...I mean what could kobolds do in a sewer really? An ogre isnt going to be able to muster much beyond where is my dinner, where is my club and bash anything that moves. Then you zone into a mindflayer zone and get your brain eaten by an insane mind flayer who loves to dress misshapen fools in strange hats..!

    No MMO I know of lets you have a drinking game with a bunch of drunk beholders. Or lets you enter a besotted halfling's mind...

    My advice, take a step back and just have a look at the quest designs compared to other MMO's. Even LotRO - the Prince Charming to DDO's Shrek has the same boring generic meh quest structure.

    Whats your favourite off-the-wall quest?
    I like Precious Cargo as well. Not sure why it's disabled on reaper. Would love to try it

  10. #10
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    Into the Deep, Memoirs of an Illusory Larcener, The Pit, Any of the Delirium Quests: they all have a unique play style (besides what is all ready mentioned ofc ).
    Meeting either Durk or Jeets in various quests.
    The various Events.
    But best of all is The Lords of Dust because of taking player feedback and spinning it into the story line.

  11. #11
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    But the quests themselves often don't have much replay value.

    That is not to say that content is not fun in the first run.
    The trick is not to run a new quest over and over and over and over and over the first week it's out.

    I usually run a new quest solo on hard, then in a group on elite or reaper once or twice and that's about it.

    I'll hit it again once a month on my TRs, and the quests stay fun and enjoyable for a long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  12. #12
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    I like Precious Cargo as well. Not sure why it's disabled on reaper. Would love to try it
    Because there is a way to get completion on this quest by not doing most of the quest.

  13. #13
    Founder Kylstrem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    The trick is not to run a new quest over and over and over and over and over the first week it's out.

    I usually run a new quest solo on hard, then in a group on elite or reaper once or twice and that's about it.

    I'll hit it again once a month on my TRs, and the quests stay fun and enjoyable for a long time.
    So, your method of extending the content and replay-ability is to NOT play the game alot.... genius!

  14. #14
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylstrem View Post
    So, your method of extending the content and replay-ability is to NOT play the game alot.... genius!
    You missed Thrudh's point. He runs quests once per go round rather than cherry picking high experience quests and repeating them each go round. Both methods may involve the exact same number of play hours but the latter practice leads to faster burnout.

  15. #15
    Community Member GlassCannon's Avatar
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    Default Wait... people don't replay quests they haven't done in a while?

    Why would they do that? It's like eating boiled beans every day when you have cupboards full of other stuff.

    Why?

    If I haven't run a quest in 2-3 lives I will go and do it, even if the XP is not great.

    If I see an off the wall LFM there is a high % chance that I will say "Oh! I haven't done that one this life... or last one either. Let's go do it." and I click Join.

    Some of the old TR friends I had and others left because their XP/Min had to be over 2k to justify even doing anything. With a perspective like that it's not a game, it's just getting numbers to stack up and that's boring. Like watching paint dry or grass grow and trying to force intense interest.

    Lately I've even wanted to run the old raids like Titan and Vision of Destruction and Tower of Despair just to experience them again. Doing some of them at-level is nightmarish because of the flagging involved.
    Last edited by GlassCannon; 08-01-2017 at 12:34 AM.

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