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  1. #21
    Community Member DareDelvis's Avatar
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    Great write-up!
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  2. #22
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    So did the build change to 12 fighter/6 Arty? What's the new level progression then? Thx.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    So did the build change to 12 fighter/6 Arty? What's the new level progression then? Thx.
    I am curious - why would it have changed thus?
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  4. #24
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    I am curious - why would it have changed thus?
    in slarden's signature which he points out in a few threads ... the sig now says 12 fighter/6 arty ... etc. So i'm wondering if it's a typo or he changed the build.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    in slarden's signature which he points out in a few threads ... the sig now says 12 fighter/6 arty ... etc. So i'm wondering if it's a typo or he changed the build.
    No I didn't change the build, that was just straight-up incompetence on my part. Thank you for pointing it out.

    Adding more fighter levels will only accelerate improved critical ranged and improved precise shot by one level unless you defer monk levels which would accelerate both by 2 levels, but I find evasion too important too give up simply to get those feats 1 level sooner. The split change would only net 1 feat, but at the cost of some nice spells. I think both splits work really well and it's ultimately a playstyle decision determining which works best for a person.

  6. #26
    Community Member nimodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    No, no ... I think your build is pretty awesome. I only meant there are variations that could probably get to the same place just with a slightly different path. When I talk about splashing ranger with 6 levels or 12, I just mean in DWS tree. Those are WAI with xbows. Not AA tree. I think the +1 crit sustained damage vs +2 crit damage every 6 seconds ... May only even out if you have high SA dice since it grants auto sneak attack for 4 seconds afterwards. The +2 to crit profile on sniper shot will allow you crit more often on that shot.

    The 2 rogue gets the following benefits when coupled with Arty and ranger ... Evasion, faster sneaking with ranger and rogue, a little more sneak attack and xbow damage, and full disable device score on trap making (if you like using that sort of CC).
    Sniper shot gives +4 crit range after you take improved crit: ranged (also +2W and it affects every bolt when using a repeater)... tested and verified this. just thought i'd throw that in if you're considering taking 6 rngr levels... I do on any ranged toon i make just for this ability.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nimodoc View Post
    Sniper shot gives +4 crit range after you take improved crit: ranged (also +2W and it affects every bolt when using a repeater)... tested and verified this. just thought i'd throw that in if you're considering taking 6 rngr levels... I do on any ranged toon i make just for this ability.
    Are you saying it's +2 on top of improved critical all the time or just for the shot.

  8. #28
    Community Member nimodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Are you saying it's +2 on top of improved critical all the time or just for the shot.
    Just the single sniper shot. (all 3 bolts of a shot with a repeater) so in essence every 6 seconds u get 3 bolts that fire +2W +4crit range +2multi (would be a crit range of +8 or 40% when firing a repeater while having the feat Improved Crit: Ranged) and obviously the follow up sneak attack dmg which would apply to the last 2 bolts of the repeater shot as well.
    Last edited by nimodoc; 08-30-2017 at 07:09 AM.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nimodoc View Post
    Just the single sniper shot. (all 3 bolts of a shot with a repeater) so in essence every 6 seconds u get 3 bolts that fire +2W +4crit range (would be a crit range of +8 or 40% when firing a repeater while having the feat Improved Crit: Ranged) and obviously the follow up sneak attack dmg which would apply to the last 2 bolts of the repeater shot as well.
    I will check it out one of these life's. Fighter is basically giving
    +1 critical multiplier 3 net feats and 3 extra endless fusillades. I am thinking whatever the difference is is small for heroics. Ty for the info, I need to compare.

  10. #30
    Community Member nimodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I will check it out one of these life's. Fighter is basically giving
    +1 critical multiplier 3 net feats and 3 extra endless fusillades. I am thinking whatever the difference is is small for heroics. Ty for the info, I need to compare.
    If you're interested, I ran the numbers for Sniper Shot vs. Expert Builder (Mech 18 core +2 multiplier with Gxbow) here.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...6-ranger-multi

    3 feats is nice. Then again, taking 6 rngr gives you several free feats as well. Anyway... take a look if you like.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nimodoc View Post
    If you're interested, I ran the numbers for Sniper Shot vs. Expert Builder (Mech 18 core +2 multiplier with Gxbow) here.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...6-ranger-multi

    3 feats is nice. Then again, taking 6 rngr gives you several free feats as well. Anyway... take a look if you like.
    Fighter gives 4 feats and ranger gives 2 feats needed. So fighter gives 2 net feats. The 25 prr is also useful but not a dps measure. The 3 extra endless fusillade clickies is also a plus. I'm not saying 6 ranger isn't a good splash or even better splash - I'm just saying it seems fairly equal to me and since I've run with quite a few 6 ranger splashes I haven't seen any sort of outperformance that would make me want to immediately switch. With the arcane archer bugs it was definitely bettter,

    I will take a look and I do plan to try out a few 6 ranger life's to compare. Without factoring in vorpal it's hard to measure total performance, although if sniper shot is bugged and giving extra criti bonuses with improved crits it is likely better boss damage. For heroics I don't weight boss fights as heavily as trash encounters since mobs are generally the more dangerous than bosses.

    thank you for the info. I will give it a try and report back. My play time is limited for the next few weeks though so probably not for a month.

  12. #32

    Thumbs up Improved traps

    Quote Originally Posted by DaggomaticDwarf View Post
    I love using web and glitterdust, only drawback to 2 rog is no "trapmaking" that's auto grant at lvl 4. So no salvaging parts and you best have all your traps pre-made.

    Dagg.
    my 12monk/6ranger/2rogue uses these traps and I solved this with taking 2 feats, the Skill Focus: Disable Device feat(+3 bonus) and that allows you to take the Trapmaking Feat without the Prerequisite: (Level 4: Artificer, Rogue.) only need Trapfinding and any "one" of the following: Skill Focus: Disable Device (my choice), Nimble Fingers, or Least Dragonmark of Making and then I use the Enhancement Improved Traps: DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%. giving them incredibly high DCs. working even in Legionary quests at CAP! ...

    So many times a well placed web trap has saved the whole party but as it does cost 2 feats and 8 points in the mechanic tree, but I can float the points around to other enhancement trees when needed.

    but slarden's build has trap making in his 12 artificer levels so not need the extra feats SO I would take 2 rogue instead of the 2 monk for this reason, as it gives the same evasion as the monk and he does not use the stances not being centered anyway. and only would lose +2 from Fortitude and Will Saves (+3+3+3 vs +1+3+1) if he can afford the AP cost.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmpoweredBJB View Post
    my 12monk/6ranger/2rogue uses these traps and I solved this with taking 2 feats, the Skill Focus: Disable Device feat(+3 bonus) and that allows you to take the Trapmaking Feat without the Prerequisite: (Level 4: Artificer, Rogue.) only need Trapfinding and any "one" of the following: Skill Focus: Disable Device (my choice), Nimble Fingers, or Least Dragonmark of Making and then I use the Enhancement Improved Traps: DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%. giving them incredibly high DCs. working even in Legionary quests at CAP! ...

    So many times a well placed web trap has saved the whole party but as it does cost 2 feats and 8 points in the mechanic tree, but I can float the points around to other enhancement trees when needed.

    but slarden's build has trap making in his 12 artificer levels so not need the extra feats SO I would take 2 rogue instead of the 2 monk for this reason, as it gives the same evasion as the monk and he does not use the stances not being centered anyway. and only would lose +2 from Fortitude and Will Saves (+3+3+3 vs +1+3+1) if he can afford the AP cost.
    2 monk provides 4% dodge from levels. The 2 bonus feats also translate into 5 dodge and 2 dodge cap. I do use traps situationally, but most of my cc comes from the freezing ice proc from frozen tunic and tendon slice slowing enemies down enough that they aren't a threat.

    My build did originally use 2 rogue and trap making before the artificer changes - at that time I went tier 5 in kensai rather than battle engineer. With the changes to battle engineer I would have to give up something really good to squeeze in 8 ap which is why I changed to 2 monk with 1 ap spend for 10 healing amp instead. I think 2 monk is more optimal than 2 rouge for this build with the objectives I have

    - Ability to solo almost all content at 3-4 skulls
    - Primary focus is heroic leveling to 20
    - Powerful enough to solo at all level ranges

    If you did squeeze in the 8 ap for trapping it would end slowing down dps progress by 2 levels. I just don't see the extra trapping preventing deaths or speeding up runs so I can't justify it in the build.
    Last edited by slarden; 09-04-2017 at 09:39 AM.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    2 monk provides 4% dodge from levels. The 2 bonus feats also translate into 5 dodge and 2 dodge cap.
    Feats:Precision (Monk), Insightful Reflexes (General), Dodge (Monk) not available to Rogue? just not following what your saying above.
    AND
    Does your calculations include the EXTRA Skill points at 1st level: (8 + Intelligence modifier) x4 of the rogue? vs the (4 + Intelligence modifier) x4 of all the other classes. equaling 44/(+11 for the 2nd rogue level) 55 total vs your 28/(+14 for the 2xMonk) 42 total?
    ----
    I understand your point about your build as far as I can see without testing it, as I have not spent much for dodge except for adding listen skill points to max it out using Sweet Cinnamon Cloud from night revels. (lasts an hour) as long as it keeps working. and with all my past lives from being a epic completionist and all the toggles included therein, find all the heroic levels stupid easy anyways...

    I really only wanted to share how to get trapmaking with only 2 levels of rogue with DaggomaticDwarf above not critique your build.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmpoweredBJB View Post
    Feats:Precision (Monk), Insightful Reflexes (General), Dodge (Monk) not available to Rogue? just not following what your saying above.
    AND
    Does your calculations include the EXTRA Skill points at 1st level: (8 + Intelligence modifier) x4 of the rogue? vs the (4 + Intelligence modifier) x4 of all the other classes. equaling 44/(+11 for the 2nd rogue level) 55 total vs your 28/(+14 for the 2xMonk) 42 total?
    ----
    I understand your point about your build as far as I can see without testing it, as I have not spent much for dodge except for adding listen skill points to max it out using Sweet Cinnamon Cloud from night revels. (lasts an hour) as long as it keeps working. and with all my past lives from being a epic completionist and all the toggles included therein, find all the heroic levels stupid easy anyways...

    I really only wanted to share how to get trapmaking with only 2 levels of rogue with DaggomaticDwarf above not critique your build.
    precision I am taking either way but monk levels lets me take it quicker. The 2 bonus feats translate into dodge and mobility for 5 dodge on top of the 4 dodge granted for monk levels. The skill points don't matter much as the key skills are all maxed out.

    i have no issue with anything you said. I just disagree 2 rogue is better than 2 monk for the build.

  16. #36

    Thumbs up webs & dust

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I just disagree 2 rogue is better than 2 monk for the build.
    I am not going to argue about what is good for your build. it is after all your build.

    I would like to note, I have gotten a lot of comments and feed back on the use of traps, but never about by dodging ability. but as you say you solo much and do not have teammates thanking you when they are running the mob that's attacking them into the webs or getting blinded by the dust. saving them from death...

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmpoweredBJB View Post
    I am not going to argue about what is good for your build. it is after all your build.

    I would like to note, I have gotten a lot of comments and feed back on the use of traps, but never about by dodging ability. but as you say you solo much and do not have teammates thanking you when they are running the mob that's attacking them into the webs or getting blinded by the dust. saving them from death...
    The goal of the build is to be able to solo but I solo less than 25%. I understand your opinion on the traps and I don't think it's a bad playstyle preference. As I said i switched from 2 rogue to 2 monk on this build so was able to compare and I think monk works better for the build.

    i stop my enemies with freezing ice procs and slow them with tendon slice. The passive cc works well and doesn't require the 8 ap and loss of other things. I still use traps situationally. As an int build it still works ok without the 8 ap.

  18. #38
    Community Member DaggomaticDwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    *Snippity snip*

    I might have misunderstood, but I think his point is by taking rogue rather than monk levels you have access to the improved trap making enhancement in the mechanic tree which allows you to create web and glitterdust traps using your full dd score instead of half of it for DC. The tree also has wand and scroll mastery saving 1 AP on the artificer arcanotechnician core. there isn't much AP to spend in the tree.
    Exactly my point. The trap DC makes me a CC, pew pew pew machine!

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  19. #39
    Community Member DaggomaticDwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmpoweredBJB View Post
    my 12monk/6ranger/2rogue uses these traps and I solved this with taking 2 feats, the Skill Focus: Disable Device feat(+3 bonus) and that allows you to take the Trapmaking Feat without the Prerequisite: (Level 4: Artificer, Rogue.) only need Trapfinding and any "one" of the following: Skill Focus: Disable Device (my choice), Nimble Fingers, or Least Dragonmark of Making and then I use the Enhancement Improved Traps: DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%. giving them incredibly high DCs. working even in Legionary quests at CAP! ...

    So many times a well placed web trap has saved the whole party but as it does cost 2 feats and 8 points in the mechanic tree, but I can float the points around to other enhancement trees when needed.

    but slarden's build has trap making in his 12 artificer levels so not need the extra feats SO I would take 2 rogue instead of the 2 monk for this reason, as it gives the same evasion as the monk and he does not use the stances not being centered anyway. and only would lose +2 from Fortitude and Will Saves (+3+3+3 vs +1+3+1) if he can afford the AP cost.
    Don't have to sell me on the traps, I always make sure Im stocked up before questing.

    But that's a big cost, 2 feat that could go elsewhere, IMO.

    I think either one is great, for me and I weird like that, would be that annoying "Not Centered" icon. That would drive me Bat Sheet crazy!!

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  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmpoweredBJB View Post
    I am not going to argue about what is good for your build. it is after all your build.

    I would like to note, I have gotten a lot of comments and feed back on the use of traps, but never about by dodging ability. but as you say you solo much and do not have teammates thanking you when they are running the mob that's attacking them into the webs or getting blinded by the dust. saving them from death...
    Quote Originally Posted by DaggomaticDwarf View Post
    Exactly my point. The trap DC makes me a CC, pew pew pew machine!

    Dagg.
    just noting: I made a thread showing that glitterdust traps blind reapers, effectively neutralizing them:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ers?highlight=
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