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  1. #1
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    Default Sorcerer/Spellsinger build

    I'm planning out my next life and I thought I'd play a spell damage focused character. The basic premise is that I'm willing to lose a bit of the top end from Sorcerer (such as the +2 DC from Heighten) in exchange for the benefits from Spellsinger. However, I'm not entirely sure if everything will work together - it seems like I'll be able to cast the Evocation spells nearly as well as a pure Sorcerer while also getting the various benefits of Spellsinger.

    It seems like I end up losing 3 DC from Sorcerer (2 from Heighten, 1 from tier 5 Air Savant), but gain +4 Evocation/Enchantment from Spellsinger. Spellsinger also gives me a lot more support options, healing and the ability to recover mana (although this may well be less than the spell point difference in a quick run). However, I don't have enough feats/AP/etc. to take everything, so I have to skimp somewhere. It's primarily Electric damage, but the Sonic damage isn't completely horrible. The CC isn't as straight-forward as a conventional arcane caster, but between Fascinate, a very infrequently used Mass Hold and piles of Sonic/Electric stun/daze, it seems like it should be sufficient for most purposes.

    I haven't done a Sorcerer in a while, so I'm looking for anything I've overlooked or any mechanics that don't actually work the way I'm imagining they do.

    Sonic/Electric Evocation
    14/6 Sorcerer/Bard
    True Neutral Dragonborn


    Level Order

    1. Bard. . . . . . 6. Sorcerer. . . .11. Sorcerer. . . .16. Bard
    2. Sorcerer . . . .7. Sorcerer . . . 12. Sorcerer . . . 17. Sorcerer
    3. Sorcerer . . . .8. Sorcerer . . . 13. Bard. . . . . .18. Sorcerer
    4. Sorcerer . . . .9. Bard. . . . . .14. Sorcerer. . . .19. Sorcerer
    5. Bard. . . . . .10. Sorcerer. . . .15. Sorcerer. . . .20. Bard



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . 10. . . .+7. . . .4: CHA
    Dexterity . . . 10. . . .+7. . . .8: CHA
    Constitution. . 16. . . .+7. . . 12: CHA
    Intelligence. . 14. . . .+7. . . 16: CHA
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+7. . . 20: CHA
    Charisma. . . . 20. . . .+7. . . 24: CHA
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CHA


    Skills
    . . . . . B .S .S .S .B. S. S. S. B .S .S .S .B. S. S. B .S .S .S .B
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Perform . 4 . . . . . 4 . . . . . 4 . . . . . 4 . . . .3. . . . . .4. 23
    Spellcr . 4 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1. 23
    Tumble. . 4 .½ .½ .½ .2. . . . 1. 3 . . ½. 1. 3 . . 1. 2 . . 1½ 1½ 1 .23
    UMD . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. . .1½ 1½ 1 . . 1½ 1½. . 2. 1. 1. 1 .23
    Diplo . . 4 . . . . . 2 . . . . . 2 . . . . . 2 . . . .5. . . . . .3. 18
    Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .32 .4 .4 .4 .8. 4. 5. 5. 9 .5 .5 .5 .9. 5. 6 10. 6. 6. 6 10



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Maximize Spell
    .1 Dragon : Draconic Ancestry: Blue
    .3. . . . : Empower Spell
    .6. . . . : Quicken Spell
    .9. . . . : Extend Spell
    12. . . . : Spell Focus: Evocation
    15. . . . : Force of Personality
    18. . . . : Heighten Spell
    21 Epic . : Wellspring of Power
    24 Epic . : Master of: Air
    26 Destiny: Lasting Inspiration
    27 Epic . : Intensify Spell
    28 Destiny: Hellball
    29 Destiny: Fount of Life
    30 Epic . : Embolden Spell
    30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Air


    Spells

    Sorcerer
    1. Jump, Tumble, Sonic Blast, Nightshield
    2. Resist Energy, Gust of Wind, Electric Loop, Fog Cloud
    3. Displacement, Lightning Bolt, Sleet Storm, Dispel Magic
    4. Shout, Dimension Door, Fire Shield, Solid Fog
    5. Ball Lightning, Cyclonic Blast, Eladar's Electric Surge
    6. Chain Lightning, Greater Heroism
    7. Otto's Sphere of Dancing

    Bard
    1. Cure Light Wounds, Otto's Resistible Dance, Sonic Blast, Feather Fall
    2. Cure Moderate Wounds, Invisibility, Soundburst


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Spellsinger (35 AP)
    • Spellsinger, Music of the Sewers, Music of the Dead
      1. Haunting Melody I, Lingering Songs III, Sonic Blast III
      2. Reverberate II, Marigold Crown: Violet
      3. Shout III, Spell Song Trance, Charisma
      4. Sustaining Song, Spell Penetration III, Song of Arcane Might, Charisma
      5. Prodigy I, Spell Song Vigor, Mass Hold I

    Dragonborn (23 AP)
    • Hardy, Charisma, Hardy II, Charisma
      1. (none)
      2. Dragon Breath, Arcanum I
      3. Dragon Heritage III, Power in Breath III, Draconic Knowledge
      4. Memory of Flight, True Power III

    Air Savant (22 AP)
    • Air Savant, Air Affinity, Greater Air Affinity, Conduction
      1. Shocking Grasp III, Acrobatic I, Spell Critical, Electrocution III
      2. Spell Critical
      3. Spell Penetration, Spell Critical, Charisma
      4. Electric Loop I


    Destiny (24 AP)

    Magister
    1. Imperceptible Casting, Unearthly Reactions III, Charisma
    2. Fade into the Weave, School Specialist: Evocation III, Charisma
    3. School Augmentation III
    4. Call Kindred Being, School Familiarity III
    5. School Master III
    6. Arcane Adept

    Twists of Fate (27 fate points)
    1. Aria (Tier 3 Fatesinger)
    2. Soundburst (Tier 2 Exalted)
    3. Masked Ball (Tier 2 Fatesinger)
    4. Precise: Evocation (Tier 2 Draconic)

  2. #2
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    I might move Bard 6 back to Lvl 18 if you want Music of the Dead while banking 20. Unless Sorc 13 is a dealbreaker for ya.

  3. #3
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    Default Sorcerer/Bard

    I know that air savant critical chance, spell power boost, and temp spell point proc do work on bard spell cast. However from what i understand caster level increase from air savant does not affect either sorcerer or bard spells. Also the wiki lists spellsinger sonic critical chance at 2% however my character sheet shows 3% per tier including the first.

    You will be ahead on dc but possibly behind on spell pen for the mass hold sla it is counted as a 9th level spell im not sure how that one works. And i dont think you get enough spell points back from songs to make up 6 sorcerer levels unless you want to wait and play songs to fill up your bar. I think the healing may be just good enough because i believe you cant increase its effectiveness while the spell point song is a constant drip.

    I do like your idea and hopefully smarter people will give their take.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    I might move Bard 6 back to Lvl 18 if you want Music of the Dead while banking 20. Unless Sorc 13 is a dealbreaker for ya.
    In my mind, the "Fascinate Dead Things" aspect is less important than +1 DC/+2% Spell Critical/+1 Bard spell level, so going from 5->6 in Bard is an incremental benefit.

    That being said, this is a first draft of a character I haven't actually played and the level sequence is mostly arbitrary. I tend to start with the notion that it's best to interleave levels (for skills) unless there are BAB issues interfering with feat progression. I wasn't really thinking in terms of "boy, sitting at level X without ability Y would be awful".

    Unless I go Bard/Bard as my last two levels, I'm going to lose Otto's Sphere anyway - and that 5th Bard level is likely to prove very handy since that gives me Spell Song Vigor. On the other hand, Sorcerer/Sorcerer doesn't give me an additional spell level (and the additional +1 DC from Heighten) or any better access to the Air Savant tree than I'd have. So I'd agree it's probably a better plan to do levels 19/20 as Sorcerer.

    I'm also thinking that Dragonborn might not be all that viable without piles of racial past-lives - getting that far up in the tree makes AP really tight for Spellsinger/Air Savant. Realistically, the big benefit is +1 Caster Level (Electric) and +3 DC (Evocation). If I went Drow, I could end up with +2 Enchantment DC, +1 Spell Penetration, +1 Charisma and full ranks in both Electric Loop and Horn of Thunder/Mass Hold. If I went Human (or Half-elf/PDK), I'd be down 3 Charisma, but could get it back with Action Surge and an additional feat (for SF: Evocation or similar). Dragon Spell Knowledge might also be a better twist based on the premise that given the sheer volume of spells I'm casting, something has to stick.

    Anyhoo, thanks for the reply.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergharder View Post
    I know that air savant critical chance, spell power boost, and temp spell point proc do work on bard spell cast. However from what i understand caster level increase from air savant does not affect either sorcerer or bard spells.
    As far as I can tell:
    • Song of Arcane Might works with all spells.
      Air Savant CL core abilities work with no Sonic spells - not even Sorcerer sonic spells.
      Air Savant CL core abilities work with all Electric spells, including Horn of Thunder.
      Air Savant Max CL works with Electric.
      I couldn't test Air Savant Max CL on Sonic because I only had 9 Sorcerer levels (I rolled a Sun Elf Iconic as a test character). I'm confident enough that it doesn't work that I'm not going to bother rolling up a 14 level version just to test it.


    I wasn't quite sure how to check DC or spell level for Mass Hold; the caster level of a spell appears in the log and the numbers seem to match up with what is claimed.

    So that's somewhat discouraging. However, CL is still 6 + 1 + 5 + 3 = 15 for all the Bard spells even without the Air Savant levels, so they're not completely awful - Sonic Blast is more of a cheap way to Daze (with an admittedly weak DC), Reverberate barely scales anyway and Shout was primarily to sidestep the problem of Electric-immune enemies without burning boatloads of SP.

    You will be ahead on dc but possibly behind on spell pen for the mass hold sla it is counted as a 9th level spell im not sure how that one works. And i dont think you get enough spell points back from songs to make up 6 sorcerer levels unless you want to wait and play songs to fill up your bar.
    It should be 500 + (Charisma Bonus * 6) spell points different from pure Sorcerer. Let's just randomly pick +35 Charisma bonus for 710 total SP. IIRC, Spell Song Vigor is 2 SP/sec. So about 6 minutes (which is multiple SSV casts) and you break even. The 10% cheaper spells would fit in here somewhere as well, but the total shortfall from Pure Sorcerer -> hybrid Sorcerer/Spellsinger is probably around -30% SP so likely it's easier to consider the comparison that way.

    There's also the question of playstyle. I'm not nearly ready for 10*Reaper, but the reduction on CC made me think that ultimately spells like Mass Hold Monster would be only marginally better than Soundburst. So instead of dropping one, big CC-them-all, I'd be constantly rolling Electric Loop/Sonic Blast/Soundburst and playing the odds that I'll daze something and that 15% chance at -10 Ref would crop up an awful lot. Arguably Nullmagic Strike would play into this approach well, but 6 points seemed pricey (especially given that the first 3 are spent on a damage shield that I realistically won't be able to use without dying).

    I think the healing may be just good enough because i believe you cant increase its effectiveness while the spell point song is a constant drip.
    Sustaining Song scales with positive spell power (and, obviously, healing amplification) but not metamagic. It's not going to save anyone from imminent death, but it's a fairly efficient way to keep everyone topped off.

    Re-thinking it, CLW/CMW probably aren't going to cut it. With the metamagics, they're probably pushing triple digits in SP cost for... something a bit short of triple digits in healing. Given the fact that this is a Charisma-based character with Bard levels, Heal scrolls would probably need to fill the gap.

  6. #6
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    As far as I can tell:
    Air Savant CL core abilities work with no Sonic spells - not even Sorcerer sonic spells.
    Ive no idea if Air Savant cores ever worked with Sonic spells or was either unintentionally or stealth nerfed when Shout and Greater Shout got boosted at the time of Spellsinger pass.

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