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  1. #1
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    Default Divines and healers got destroyed by reaper.

    del
    Last edited by Tilomere; 08-25-2017 at 01:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    And not even a mention of druid, it just goes without saying that they're dead.


    Divines were put on life support with MotU/destines and they pulled the plug with shadowfell/enhancements. Reaper has nothing to do with it. If anything reaper incentivized divines a little bit.

    The bard situations isn't as easily explained. The enhancements are showing their age, but they're still decent. I think people just burned out on bard after everyone built one when they got the pass.

    Overall that's what you'd expect. Warklocks are getting the nerf bat next update (not as extreme as some make out, but number will probably drop a bit). Divines will be getting a pass sometime between u36 and Ravenloft which should help them a bit. Wiz/soc are probably next.

    Who knows with druid. That class was so slapdash from the start. I still wonder who's brilliant idea it was to make animal form combat an even more wonky version of monk unarmed combat which was nothing but problems and bugs itself from day one. My favorite PnP class, but it just never got the love it deserved in DDO.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  3. #3
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    SSG, you destroyed the divine/bard attrition core game play with reaper.

    The FVS/Cleric patches will not fix a destroyed core game play. Bard already had its patch, and it got destroyed as well.
    As one who loves/d playing a Cleric who could heal while performing as a caster, I'm having trouble envisioning them as "alive & well" anywhere near (with in a couple years) the realease of Reaper.

    Bard is just a perfect example of where "class balance passes" went wrong: from the start
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    My favorite PnP class, but it just never got the love it deserved in DDO.
    Yeah, this. ^^
    "The sword itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with swords."



  5. #5
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    SSG, you destroyed the divine/bard attrition core game play with reaper.
    I think they were dead before reaper
    But this is a resurrection

    You see, warlocks just got knocked down
    And cleric are next to step up
    I agree, cleric are few and far between
    But make the difference in a smooth play

    Clerics in reaper are even bigger give mes
    But this next update may shift more ppl back to 30
    And then a pass
    Which should bring divines to prominence
    Just in time for the undead expansion

    So divine rise to top as best in slot
    And that will flood the market with healers,
    And other stranger clerics
    So reaper may get even more popular
    If there is a breadth of healers
    That was my suggestion
    That warlock players go cleric
    Haha

    They will if they're the easy button
    I only hope they keep domains powerful
    Cleric need all the love they can get

    Peace
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    Sarlona

  6. #6

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    and stealth
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight Templar of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist); Parked Toons: Katwoemyn (10), Saelegion (4), Alitirala (>17), Naerfelka (>21)
    wounded and burnt from many mistakes and still stumbling!


  7. #7
    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Divines?

    I really don't think their is a problem with divines right now. I have seen divines roll through reaper 5 with no trouble. No they can't zerg it, no they can't run through on one sp bar or fly through like a warlock. But comparing them to a clear overpowered class is not fair to the cleric or favored soul. And everyone knows druids can be really solid.

    Farm better gear, change your play style, (some may need more past lives), and make a better build to be more soloable.

    On Sarlona I've seen a greater amount if divines.

  8. #8
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    I don't think posting numbers of classes on one server at one specific time is a good way to come to that conclusion.
    -It could be entirely the case where, prior to reaper, there were even less divines playing
    -It could be that people are mostly using classes that are good at leveling, hence there will be more Warlocks, Artificers, Barbs, etc. than usual.
    -At that particular time, there just might have been less Clr/FvS/Drd than usual

    It could also be that Cleric is fine in reaper, but people just don't like playing it. My personal experience as a Spellsinger Bard is that a strong DC caster with healing ability is VERY valuable in reaper and makes runs very smooth, but it really only matters in higher skulls which people don't run as often, especially in heroic which is where a lot of people are right now.

    For what it's worth, Cleric looks to be getting a very significant pass in the near future and IIRC FvS pass will happen at the same time.

  9. #9
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    They are down a total of 7 standard deviations between the four classes. Probability of that being wrong is somewhere between 0 and 0.
    This is based on the wrong assumption that the player-class distribution is normal - it is not.

    Second, even if you allow for the faulty assumption: you haven't compared the distribution before and after reaper - only showing one time point does not allow you to analyze any temporal changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    For what it's worth, Cleric looks to be getting a very significant pass in the near future and IIRC FvS pass will happen at the same time.
    I think some dude talked them out of that. He didn't like it, so SSG abandoned their plans for cleric. I still hold out hope they will do something for FVS, but that might have been tied to the cleric stuff, so we may never see anything for that class. FVS is just awful right now.

  11. #11
    Community Member Avocado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post


    SSG, you destroyed the divine/bard attrition core game play with reaper.

    The FVS/Cleric patches will not fix a destroyed core game play. Bard already had its patch, and it got destroyed as well.
    Haha, thanks for the good chuckle. Clerics are no less or more prevalent with the addition of reaper. How does your picture provide any factual evidence that reaper is the fault that only 5 divines are on at this very moment the picture was taken? It doesnt. What you have there is a picture of nothing but usual ddo.

    That being said, i play the most successful clerics in endgame reaper and I will not be changing it anytime soon. Reaper gave me a reason to play a healer again. I think clerics and fvs are about the same in numbers as before and after reaper because most people arent playing reaper.

  12. #12
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bracelet View Post
    I think some dude talked them out of that. He didn't like it, so SSG abandoned their plans for cleric. I still hold out hope they will do something for FVS, but that might have been tied to the cleric stuff, so we may never see anything for that class. FVS is just awful right now.
    They only said that the turn undead changes wouldn't be done now. Domains and enhancement trees as far as I can tell are going to be still done for them. How that is possible I have no idea because turn undead changes seemed pretty fundamental to their design goal with the domains.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    SSG, you destroyed the divine/bard attrition core game play with reaper.
    I'm not going to argue with population numbers, but I'm not sure what exactly you mean by destroying core game play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  14. #14
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    When I see 16 rogues and 29 rogue splashes, I tend to not sweat the small stuff.

    That's like demanding that warlock aura be fixed so drinking potions or using scrolls doesn't set it to 0 spell power.

    I'm sure it could be worked on, but somehow the priority doesn't seem right.

    If divines were fixed and were more numerous, melee rogues would be much better off due to having support. If stealth were fixed, divines would still be destroyed by SSG.
    Cleric population has been down since they trivialized content. http://ddoracle.com/Combined.html

    Reaper did not dictate the use of a healer, both because of hirelings and because of rez's replacing heals.

    Remove hirelings from reaper and I'll bet you see more divines. Find other forms of challenge besides damage, and you will see more divines. Reaper did little to discourage divines - it just provided a smaller space for them than it could have.

    Rogue was always a huge multiclass because of the utility provided. That doesn't mean you are playing a rogue, nor do you need stealth to play many types of rogues. The presence of non stealth rogues does not mean stealth/agro is OK.
    Last edited by nokowi; 06-23-2017 at 10:12 PM.

  15. #15
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post

    On an unrelated note : Khyber has double this population.

  16. #16
    Community Member Mr_Helmet's Avatar
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    169 players. LOLz

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Helmet View Post
    169 players. LOLz
    If the details are legit/not manipulated, it was grabbed during non-peak play times? Right now is a non-peak time on Sarlona and there are about 100 peeps on. Those could just be addict grinders that play 24/7, 365 during non-peak time.

    In all seriousness only a snap shot at 1 point in time. To get better data you will need to do allot more measurment than that. Pretty much a Shao Khan (Don't Make Me Laugh)

    I'm not trying to be snarky, so please forgive me, but SSG probably has much better analytics to operate from.

    The OP may not be aware that stuff gets revisited and has already. The is not an on or off environment, but rather an ever changing landscape.

    What's more upsetting is that folks can buy codes that don't work. Focus on fixing that first, then lost items/reincarnation issues and Ravenloft. The rest can come later.

  18. #18
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Reaper pretty much destroyed any desire I had to play Divines. I won't explain why for going on the 30th time, but I imagine there are other players that feel similar - they're either playing different builds, sticking to guild runs/static groups, healing everything except Reaper runs, or they've just outright quit. (Me, I've been playing crossbow builds.)

    You don't even need them in Reaper anyway, just bring supplies and use your self-healing to heal someone else instead.

    For something that was supposed to herald a rise in the need for divine casters, it's instead served as a bit of a death knell for them.
    .: Sarlona - High Lords of Malkier : Reaper Life 1, 2 , and 3 alumnus : My Twitch : Trans and Proud : (she/they please) :.
    .: Inamorata (Heroic x2/Epic Completionist) / Signalmixer (Vorpal Queen) / Darkchylde-1 (Fiend Voodulock) / Tenpercenter (Bowhealer 2020) / Groundloop : Plus so many others! :.

  19. #19
    Community Member bjones0064's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post


    SSG, you destroyed the divine/bard attrition core game play with reaper.

    The FVS/Cleric patches will not fix a destroyed core game play. Bard already had its patch, and it got destroyed as well.
    if you wanna be upset then complain that everyone and their mother that plays is grinding out lives with items with no minimum level and have a +10 enhancement bonus to a stat.

  20. #20
    Community Member CaptainPurge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjones0064 View Post
    if you wanna be upset then complain that everyone and their mother that plays is grinding out lives with items with no minimum level and have a +10 enhancement bonus to a stat.
    They are already addressing the no ML items, and your comment has nothing to do with the subject of the post.

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