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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    Ah, a fellow Necromancer!
    This is a mighty feat. That thread had been dead for 16 months, and yet, it lives!
    Who cares? They haven't changed or fixed anything about the process. It's as relevant as it ever was. I'll stand by my quote of a week for an intern to make it better (happy almost-two-year anniversary).

    As said elsewhere, log into PoE to see how it's done properly. It's not that hard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Not OP, but main reason I don't fill bug reports is that 75% of report is redundant data which I see no reason to fill at all, and just thinking on filling it makes me give up on reporting.

    Example: few days ago I ran into "fall through" part of scenery in Cogs, thought about filling a report and just gave up when I remembered how long it took last time I did that.
    This is exactly what you don't want, unless you don't want to respond to bugs. See above for how to fix it.

    How many open tickets are there now? 30,000? 60? That's plenty for a while. Don't need new ones.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Bug reports do significantly help both me and QA. I'm sorry the process isn't great.

    As for the "me being drowned in reports" dealio, I enjoy reaching out at times to allow the community to help prioritize me. I've been playing DDO for so long that I have grown pretty numb to some of the more, uh, crunchy parts of the process. Plus, being public about it helps the community keep track of what's going to be fixed.

    OP, what specifically was your issue?
    I would think there are more bugs then anyone could handle, the shear age of the game /nods. So long as they aren't game breaking the minor ones are put low on the priority list is all.

  3. #63
    Founder IconicHero's Avatar
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    Default Had an issue on saturday myself

    Was trying to switch toons game went down when i logged back in got stuck on cleaning up connection then ddo error all the login servers are full took me about hour to get back on. There was a previous post a few days ago where there were a log of people getting kicked and various reason why they couldn't get back on ddo responded pretty fast seems like this might be a smaller problem.
    Guild Leader Agents of the Dreaming Dark server Ghallanda, Officer of Ravenloft Raiders Sarlona


  4. #64
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The patch note was incorrect, and this is working as intended.
    Wouldn't it make sense to add an update note to the release notes to clarify that you changed your mind on how this was going to work.

    https://www.ddo.com/en/update-34-patch-1-release-notes
    ~Resurrection timers will no longer be reset after being pulled back to your soulstone for wandering too far from it.
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    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  5. #65
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    That feeling I get as a newb thinking I've uncovered a new bug, only to realize that it is known and was bug reported over 4 years ago

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t-gives-only-3

    I know that there are an almost countless number of these types of bugs, but it sure would be nice if an attempt was made to maintain an official known bug list somewhere for all to reference.
    Zanthiss - Level 30 Rogue Mechanic - Cannith

    I've got a Dungeon Master's Guide... I've got 12 sided die...

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldschool View Post
    That feeling I get as a newb thinking I've uncovered a new bug, only to realize that it is known and was bug reported over 4 years ago

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t-gives-only-3

    I know that there are an almost countless number of these types of bugs, but it sure would be nice if an attempt was made to maintain an official known bug list somewhere for all to reference.
    There's one right here.

    Oh you want it maintained too?! Hah.

  7. #67
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    I created literaly hundreds of bug reports this last decade, none of them ever adressed, sigh, i'm starting to think they don't have the skills, tools, manpower or interest to fix them.

    The realy puzzling thing is, why isn't the "other forum" not running amok with those bugs?
    Shaming others for their failures sounds like something they would enjoy.
    Maybe some bad press will get things fixed here
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    I created literaly hundreds of bug reports this last decade, none of them ever adressed, sigh, i'm starting to think they don't have the skills, tools, manpower or interest to fix them.

    The realy puzzling thing is, why isn't the "other forum" not running amok with those bugs?
    Shaming others for their failures sounds like something they would enjoy.
    Maybe some bad press will get things fixed here
    I work in an embedded SW environment every day. I know the pressures of releasing the 'new shiny' vs. spending time working on sustaining improvements (bug fixes, etc.). The bean counters find it difficult to quantify the value of sustaining efforts, QoL improvements for all users, over the next new thing. Quality is an end unto itself, and one that pays dividends, but it's sadly not apparent on a quarterly report.

    That being said, I think that there is a bigger issue at play. This game is built on a 10+ year old code base. Some (many?) of the original devs are undoubtedly gone. I suspect that the sad truth here is that, while SSG would love to go attack these known bugs, they are simply too fearful of breaking something and creating a problem far worse than the bug itself if they attempt the fix, due to years upon years of spaghetti code obfuscating how everything interacts. And I would sympathize with that dilemma if it's the case. The recent TR problems are a strong reason to suspect this, IMHO.

    Still, how difficult could it be to inspect the 'Stay Frosty' Spot and Listen bonus from +3 to +6? A quick check of the actual value being applied, then another check for its type to see if there is a stacking problem. Which brings us to the 'limited resources' problem, the cry of every SW manager in history. I would suggest that one SW dev dedicated to sustaining efforts (i.e. bug fixes), who maintained a visible known bug list and slowly ticked them off one-by-one, would do much for SSG in terms of player base satisfaction, IF they thought that this dev had a reasonable chance to actually fix some of these well-known bugs.
    Zanthiss - Level 30 Rogue Mechanic - Cannith

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldschool View Post
    Still, how difficult could it be to inspect the 'Stay Frosty' Spot and Listen bonus from +3 to +6?
    Actually, it took me two full hours of work*. It's also part of the full Epic Destiny Pass that we have released the notes on, check out that specific change here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Primal-Sphere

    * wall of text if you want it
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  10. #70
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    Just a renegade thought : Could it be marked as "solved" because the thing was forwarded internally to the devs ? I don't know.

    I just have no idea how else a non-programming customer support person might be able to actually fix something that requires looking at the actual code ...

    As for bug reporting itself : I don't quite understand why there aren't just 2 forms for bug reporting : 1 for DDo, 1 for LOTRO. This way that part wouldn't even needed to be filled out.
    Hello! As the person who reads through player bug submissions it seems pertinent for me to establish some understanding about the realities of this process on our end.

    First
    The player bug reporting form is not going to be changed at any point in the currently planned future. I understand that the current tool leaves a lot to be desired in terms both of the time it takes players to submit bugs, however, the people who would be the ones tasked with creating a new tool (or integrating changes to the old one) are the same people who both DDO and LotRO rely on for large backend tasks. We simply can not spare their time in the forseeable future for an optimized bug reporting tool when we already have one that functions but is a bit of a pain.

    Second
    All of the player bugs are read. Critical issues are dealt with ASAP and others end up in a pile for QA to investigate when they have time. Those that are investigated and reproduced then have a QA written report made (including repro steps) and are assigned to a Dev's internal bug queue. Once in a dev's internal bug queue that dev fixes whichever bugs they have time to fix once their primary features for an update are mostly complete. After 13+ years as an active development game we have, obviously, large legacy bug queues that have (genuinely) been shrinking in recent years. Our total open bugs queue (Those written by QA after being investigated) has shrunk by roughly 15% since I joined the project in 2014. Will this queue ever be reduced to negligible levels? Honestly, probably not. That does not mean, however, that we are not continually attempting to address as many issues as we can given the large scope of new features we are continually creating with a small team.

    Third
    The player bug report queue is not a source that is actively monitored on a day to day basis. If someone requires direct assistance with an issue they should be submitting a ticket in a category other than "I would like to submit a bug report" so that it will go into the customer service queue instead of my queue. These days Bug Reports are skimmed regularly for critical issues but non-critical issues are combed through and compiled in bulk when I have time once or twice a month. This is NOT a process that has any possibility of personally written updates on what part of the process each individual bug is in to each individual person who has reported it. That would require somewhere approaching 1000% more time than I and the rest of QA currently have in our aggressive release schedule. It'd be rad, but it's not even close to being a possibility.

    I understand that this wall of text may come off as dismissive of your concerns. The intent, however, is to be frank and realistic while keeping transparency. I understand that the bug reporting process is not ideal on a user submission basis and I want to assure you that your reports remain very valuable to us in our continuous process to make DDO a better game.
    Last edited by Cordovan; 06-03-2019 at 03:19 PM.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Actually, it took me two full hours of work*. It's also part of the full Epic Destiny Pass that we have released the notes on, check out that specific change here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Primal-Sphere

    * wall of text if you want it
    Thanks! That is great news. And RE Shiradi, oh my I think my Mechanic may have a new primary ED.

    Wild Shots scales with 200% Ranged Power.
    Rain of Arrows' damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
    Whirling Wrists also grants +2/4/6% Doubleshot.
    Track also debuffs fortification by 2% per stack
    Stand & Deliver now alson grants +1mult on 19-20 with Ranged weapons
    In The Weeds adds +3 PRR and +3 MRR per stack.
    NEW: Horizon Shot (T6): Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    Last edited by 0ldschool; 06-03-2019 at 01:46 PM.
    Zanthiss - Level 30 Rogue Mechanic - Cannith

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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldschool View Post
    ...
    That being said, I think that there is a bigger issue at play. This game is built on a 10+ year old code base. Some (many?) of the original devs are undoubtedly gone. I suspect that the sad truth here is that, while SSG would love to go attack these known bugs, they are simply too fearful of breaking something and creating a problem far worse than the bug itself if they attempt the fix, due to years upon years of spaghetti code obfuscating how everything interacts. And I would sympathize with that dilemma if it's the case. The recent TR problems are a strong reason to suspect this, IMHO.
    I think if that were the real reason, we'd see some reluctance to muck around in general, and not get unnecessary changes like Arrow Deflection. I think a healthy fear of breaking something would do the game a world of good.

    A high perceived value of "New Shiny" and low perceived value of "Quality of Life" seems a much better explanation. They've got a Cadillac with wire rims, tinted windows, and a 500W stereo system but they haven't changed the oil in 75,000 miles. Washed and waxed every Saturday, though.

    Remember that the flip side of 10 year old code is they've had a decade to comment it, document it, instrument it, and test it. If they really did want to fix the bugs, they've had plenty of time to get their ducks in a row. It's not like the current team has a stable of 100 applications to maintain, they've got 2 products.
    I am profoundly disappointed with the current state and direction of DDO, and my purchasing habits reflect this. A drastic improvement in quality of life, transparency, and honest communication would improve my spending. Promises and "more squeeze" will not.

  13. #73
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Hello! As the person who reads through player bug submissions it seems pertinent for me to establish some understanding about the realities of this process on our end.

    First
    The player bug reporting form is not going to be changed at any point in the currently planned future. I understand that the current tool leaves a lot to be desired in terms both of the time it takes players to submit bugs, however, the people who would be the ones tasked with creating a new tool (or integrating changes to the old one) are the same people who both DDO and LotRO rely on for large backend tasks. We simply can not spare their time in the forseeable future for an optimized bug reporting tool when we already have one that functions but is a bit of a pain.

    Second
    All of the player bugs are read. Critical issues are dealt with ASAP and others end up in a pile for QA to investigate when they have time. Those that are investigated and reproduced then have a QA written report made (including repro steps) and are assigned to a Dev's internal bug queue. Once in a dev's internal bug queue that dev fixes whichever bugs they have time to fix once their primary features for an update are mostly complete. After 13+ years as an active development game we have, obviously, large legacy bug queues that have (genuinely) been shrinking in recent years. Our total open bugs queue (Those written by QA after being investigated) has shrunk by roughly 15% since I joined the project in 2014. Will this queue ever be reduced to negligible levels? Honestly, probably not. That does not mean, however, that we are not continually attempting to address as many issues as we can given the large scope of new features we are continually creating with a small team.

    Third
    The player bug report queue is not a source that is actively monitored on a day to day basis. If someone requires direct assistance with an issue they should be submitting a ticket in a category other than "I would like to submit a bug report" so that it will go into the customer service queue instead of my queue. These days Bug Reports are skimmed regularly for critical issues but non-critical issues are combed through and compiled in bulk when I have time once or twice a month. This is NOT a process that has any possibility of personally written updates on what part of the process each individual bug is in to each individual person who has reported it. That would require somewhere approaching 1000% more time than I and the rest of QA currently have in our aggressive release schedule. It'd be rad, but it's not even close to being a possibility.

    I understand that this wall of text may come off as dismissive of your concerns. The intent, however, is to be frank and realistic while keeping transparency. I understand that the bug reporting process is not ideal on a user submission basis and I want to assure you that your reports remain very valuable to us in our continuous process to make DDO a better game.
    Thank you for the information.
    To Second : I'd like to ask what you define as critical issue? I guess game breaking is a given but what about for example TR issues? Missing tomes, items. destinies, etc. Because that are issues that are making the game unplayable for the single player. And there is very very very little help from customer service.
    For example I lost the falconry tree through TR. I got no help whatsoever. I was left alone with the issue. What if my next life build depended on that enhancement tree? Do you expect me to invest in a Lesser Heart of Wood? Those issues are critical for us, the player. And in those cases your service is serverly lagging if not to say practically non-existent.
    Some players are desperate and go to the forum in hopes they are able to get in contact with someone who can help. What happens? No reaction.
    I ask you, how would you feel, if a service provider would treat you that way? Would you stay with that service? Would you stay calm?
    You want us to play your game. Then let us play that game.

    Cheers,
    Titus
    Beste, Titus. | playing since 2009 | Don't do the fun wrong | New to Orien? Join the ingame Titan Channel | Soko Irrlicht freut sich immer über neue Mitglieder | Deutscher Discord | Orien Raiding Discord Toons: Titusovid , Bruder, Upload, Zzed, (Rubbel)

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    I understand that this wall of text may come off as dismissive of your concerns. The intent, however, is to be frank and realistic while keeping transparency. I understand that the bug reporting process is not ideal on a user submission basis and I want to assure you that your reports remain very valuable to us in our continuous process to make DDO a better game.
    Frank and Transparent are welcome indeed. Deciding that you don't have the resources to issue personal replies is fine, as is not updating the list daily, but you could at least implement one of the open source bug tracking and reporting tools and update it twice a month. Even without linking it to the game to collect user information it would alleviate much of the frustration and apparent futility of filing bug reports.

    Having our reports disappear into a black hole with out so much as a flash gives they impression that they don't matter, even if we're told extensive processing happens in that other dimension. Being able to go to a web page and view open and closed issues and the status and progress on them would be a compelling argument that you really do care. Talk is cheap, seeing updates with our own eyes is much more convincing.

    And it would have additional benefits. First, it would save you some filing and processing if users could identify an issue in the bug database and link their report to it with additional details. Second, it would give your users confidence that your company knows what it's doing and might stick around a while, an important perception if you're trying to sell things like expansions and long term subscriptions. A fly by the seat of your pants organization has a harder time selling goods and services with longer ROI times than one that's clearly got the details under control.

    How much more important than making your customers feel confident in your company could any competing project be?
    I am profoundly disappointed with the current state and direction of DDO, and my purchasing habits reflect this. A drastic improvement in quality of life, transparency, and honest communication would improve my spending. Promises and "more squeeze" will not.

  15. #75
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusOvid View Post
    Thank you for the information.
    To Second : I'd like to ask what you define as critical issue? I guess game breaking is a given but what about for example TR issues? Missing tomes, items. destinies, etc. Because that are issues that are making the game unplayable for the single player. And there is very very very little help from customer service.
    For example I lost the falconry tree through TR. I got no help whatsoever. I was left alone with the issue. What if my next life build depended on that enhancement tree? Do you expect me to invest in a Lesser Heart of Wood? Those issues are critical for us, the player. And in those cases your service is serverly lagging if not to say practically non-existent.
    Some players are desperate and go to the forum in hopes they are able to get in contact with someone who can help. What happens? No reaction.
    I ask you, how would you feel, if a service provider would treat you that way? Would you stay with that service? Would you stay calm?
    You want us to play your game. Then let us play that game.

    Cheers,
    Titus
    Direct assistance with an issue is the purview of Customer Service and not a bug report. A bug report is to provide the dev team with information on the issue so that they may find the underlying cause of the issue and make game build changes in a future deployment that will prevent the issue from occurring again. And, to be clear, much work has gone into fixing issues found within the Reincarnation system at multiple times in the past couple of years to the point where the number of reports we have had on such issues has reduced dramatically in the past few months.

    This is not to say that your concern is not important. It is simply to say that your example is not within the subject matter of this thread or that which I had previously commented on and I am not an authority on the subject.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  16. #76
    Community Member CSQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    I understand that this wall of text may come off as dismissive of your concerns. The intent, however, is to be frank and realistic while keeping transparency. I understand that the bug reporting process is not ideal on a user submission basis and I want to assure you that your reports remain very valuable to us in our continuous process to make DDO a better game.
    Appreciate the honesty! I think DDO is in the best place it's ever been as far as the game itself goes, so the doom and gloom brigade sometimes overstates the negative. There are some things I'd like to see fixed, but I appreciate that it's not a cakewalk to do so.
    I primarily play Zunzyne Siegemaker, and am the guild master of Ares Macrotechnology on Ghallanda.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSQ View Post
    There are some things I'd like to see fixed
    Such as? I've got a semi-free afternoon (doing random fixes/documentation clean up) and now's a good as time as any, I suppose.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Such as? I've got a semi-free afternoon (doing random fixes/documentation clean up) and now's a good as time as any, I suppose.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Energy-Burst

  19. #79

  20. #80
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Such as? I've got a semi-free afternoon (doing random fixes/documentation clean up) and now's a good as time as any, I suppose.
    Yes plz as pyed-pyper said, negative energy burst!

    Edit: also improved uncanny dodge from inquisitive.
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Uncanny-Dodge
    Last edited by Pilgrim1; 06-03-2019 at 07:24 PM.

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