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  1. #1
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    Default This is why you don't get bug reports....

    Recently cordovan was compla....commenting on the fact that on Lammania people claim they report bugs but they only have say 3 bugs in the tracker.

    Well, after just submitting my 2nd or 3rd bug ever in DDO I was reminded of why I have started to submit MANY bugs but ultimately decide not to.

    1) You open a web page external to the game.
    2) You make me fill out information you could easily acquire from me in-game without needing to rely on me reporting it accurately.
    3) We have little incentive because you give no indications or feedback on the progress of the bug and of the bugs I've submitted none got fixed and I never got a reply saying it had been looked at by a real human making me substantially less likely to submit more bugs.

    If you want us to fill out bug reports provide an in-game method, capture any/all information you can yourselves, and offer a checkbox to opt-in on the results of any investigation into the bug via their e-mail tied to their account.

    In short, help us, help you, help us all!

    PS - Making it difficult to report bugs is basically the same as telling people you don't want their bug reports.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sqrlmonger View Post
    Recently cordovan was compla....commenting on the fact that on Lammania people claim they report bugs but they only have say 3 bugs in the tracker.

    PS - Making it difficult to report bugs is basically the same as telling people you don't want their bug reports.
    Agreed, submitting bug reports is way to difficult and time consuming.

    If they made it simpler and faster they would get lots more reports.

    I have given up on several occasions as it was too much hassle, and it made me think forget it, cannot be bothered getting through all the things you need to do to send the bug report.

  3. #3
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    point in case supporting the OP: Lynnabel being flooded with all kinds of reports

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryhn View Post
    point in case supporting the OP: Lynnabel being flooded with all kinds of reports
    Bug reports do significantly help both me and QA. I'm sorry the process isn't great.

    As for the "me being drowned in reports" dealio, I enjoy reaching out at times to allow the community to help prioritize me. I've been playing DDO for so long that I have grown pretty numb to some of the more, uh, crunchy parts of the process. Plus, being public about it helps the community keep track of what's going to be fixed.

    OP, what specifically was your issue?
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  5. #5
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    I don't know that the OP disliked, but I've found that the forms are generally obnoxious to fill out and have way too many drop downs that don't auto-fill. Ideally the form should be easy to navigate just using tab and typing.

    If I could have ANYTHING , it would be that I could just type /bug report <text> and the system would send an email to the address on my account that contained a link to a form with all the character and server and loc details filled out, and then I could just fill in more details.

    It has to be a quick on the spot process because usually when you notice a bug you're in the middle of a quest or other activity and it's not really convenient to stop and spend 10 minutes filling out a form. And if you don't fill it out, you're going to forget it.

  6. #6
    Community Member Phoenicis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    If I could have ANYTHING , it would be that I could just type /bug report <text> and the system would send an email to the address on my account that contained a link to a form with all the character and server and loc details filled out, and then I could just fill in more details.

    It has to be a quick on the spot process because usually when you notice a bug you're in the middle of a quest or other activity and it's not really convenient to stop and spend 10 minutes filling out a form. And if you don't fill it out, you're going to forget it.
    THIS! 10000 times this!

  7. #7
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    You know, I submitted a bug report the other day...
    Prob won't do it again,
    It took a lot of information, including my email
    Then when I checked email,
    There was a confirmation screen
    That required me to log into some other screen

    I mean, that's a lot of work...
    And I don't really care, since I found the workaround,

    The bug was,
    Items came off auction house returned in mail
    So I go to repost,
    But items still show as being on the auction house
    Like 23 min to go

    So I just log and give it an hour,
    And it seems to reset itself
    This just started happening
    Never seen it before

    But I don't like going to an external browser...
    Didnt this feature, bug reports, used to be in game??
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  8. #8
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    Didn't /bug used to be a thing? Or did I just imagine it?

    Either way, I like psychoblonde's idea!
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    I don't know that the OP disliked, but I've found that the forms are generally obnoxious to fill out and have way too many drop downs that don't auto-fill. Ideally the form should be easy to navigate just using tab and typing.

    If I could have ANYTHING , it would be that I could just type /bug report <text> and the system would send an email to the address on my account that contained a link to a form with all the character and server and loc details filled out, and then I could just fill in more details.

    It has to be a quick on the spot process because usually when you notice a bug you're in the middle of a quest or other activity and it's not really convenient to stop and spend 10 minutes filling out a form. And if you don't fill it out, you're going to forget it.
    Well for example one of the steps in the bug report is to type /loc in game at the location where the bug occurred and then copy/paste the result back into the form.

    To be clear though, I was giving them a bit of hard time in the OP. I know they do want the bug reports but I wanted it to be clear it is frustrating to submit for us and that they CAN do something to fix it!! Obviously people want to help, and obviously they want good bug reports that can help them squash bugs in record time, but we also don't want to spend time copy/pasting things, typing character names, servers names, etc.. when that is something they can and should easily collect on their own!
    Last edited by Sqrlmonger; 06-18-2017 at 12:05 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Bug reports do significantly help both me and QA. I'm sorry the process isn't great.

    As for the "me being drowned in reports" dealio, I enjoy reaching out at times to allow the community to help prioritize me. I've been playing DDO for so long that I have grown pretty numb to some of the more, uh, crunchy parts of the process. Plus, being public about it helps the community keep track of what's going to be fixed.

    OP, what specifically was your issue?
    Mine was an impossible result (and note I DID submit a report for this bug, the confirmation e-mail gave me the #14141), or what I thought was an impossible result. Specifically a CR 20 creature breaching SR 49 consistently and repeatably (my understanding is that a natural 20 on the roll would give them a 40 which should fail to bypass SR). More specifically a beholder ray. I know these do check SR because I was being spammed with "Spell Resistance Check: Success" or something like that and other toons who have SR in the 70s can and do ignore all beholder rays.

    But as an example of a bug I recently DID NOT report, we were in slave lords part 2 and the quest failed to register one of the levers in the slave room and so when we got to the end we could not complete the quest and we had to decide if we wanted to do the longest quest over, wait for a GM, or just move on. Nobody wanted to redo the quest since it was already getting late, waiting for a GM is...well I won't open that can of worms here...I think you know how that situation is now, and so we did the only thing we could do which was move on. I thought about bug reporting but when the website popped and I was falling behind with my friends who were in the next quest I just closed it and decided to move on.

    Keep in mind I post this not to elicit sympathy or say you guys don't care or anything of the sort, I want you to understand why the bug report system is not used, and will never be used to its full extent as it sits now.
    Last edited by Sqrlmonger; 06-18-2017 at 12:14 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    I don't know that the OP disliked, but I've found that the forms are generally obnoxious to fill out and have way too many drop downs that don't auto-fill. Ideally the form should be easy to navigate just using tab and typing.

    If I could have ANYTHING , it would be that I could just type /bug report <text> and the system would send an email to the address on my account that contained a link to a form with all the character and server and loc details filled out, and then I could just fill in more details.

    It has to be a quick on the spot process because usually when you notice a bug you're in the middle of a quest or other activity and it's not really convenient to stop and spend 10 minutes filling out a form. And if you don't fill it out, you're going to forget it.

    There is no Game pause option...
    Often we are in game and don't have time to stop the quest/raid while we stand there filling out a bug report while pots are ticking down and players are waiting..

    Would be nice if the bug report auto-filled with all localized information..
    we can change auto-fill info if it is incorrect before submitting..

    Filling it out after the fact.. PITA. now we have to remember shtuff.. and key menial info...
    How many times have we hit a minor/trivial bug and said fkit not wasting my time to fill a essay style bug report..

    In many cases bug reporting is more trouble than its worth when trying to submit simplistic bugs..
    a quick bug report would go a long way.. auto-fill info


    Give players better quick bug info capturing/reporting options.. like
    /bug report auto capture in the moment info and email submission sheet or forward a link to a pre-filled bug submission report to be filled out with detail later ..
    /bug stuck.. auto log it with a /loc so it can be tallied and looked at without going through the whole independent bug reporting and auto auto submit without the extra manual keying steps..
    /bug ladder found a stuck ladder spot.. auto submit without the extra manual keying steps.
    /bug 'whatever' for other minor quick report bugs.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 06-18-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sqrlmonger View Post
    1) You open a web page external to the game.
    2) You make me fill out information you could easily acquire from me in-game without needing to rely on me reporting it accurately.
    3) We have little incentive because you give no indications or feedback on the progress of the bug and of the bugs I've submitted none got fixed and I never got a reply saying it had been looked at by a real human making me substantially less likely to submit more bugs.
    You left out the step "Create a SSG help account." I tried doing something on the new help site a while ago and ran into this roadblock. I haven't been back since. The harder you make it to report bugs, the fewer bug reports you'll get, and you don't make it easy.

    The other problem, which the OP and others have mentioned, is that the bugs usually don't get fixed, and we have no idea if they're even being looked at. Look at all the people that are posting bugs in the Lynnabel threads. They're actually getting fixed, so people keep posting. If we had that level of feedback and bug resolution with the normal bug reporting process, SSG would get flooded with bug reports.

  13. #13
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    why don't they spend the time to take the useless image gallery on our in-game menu and make that function as a tool for reporting bugs.

    SSG's customer service is a far cry of the "same" staff as Turbine. It wasn't much better, but it worked.

    And while I have my tin foil hat on....... SSG should post a list here on the forums of what the in-game GM's can and cannot handle. Ive met too many people over the years that gave up on GM's mainly because of NOT having these things published.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxtan View Post
    I have only been playing a little over a year, I have learned a lot more about how to really play DDO in a few days vs. grind DDO in a year, and it is much more entertaining. I hope HC never ends.

  14. #14
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    I submitted one bug report I think about 2 years ago. Seemed like something that would be a relatively quick fix...a class skill not working right with warforged. Its still broken. I think we'll be due for another round of class rebalancing before it gets fixed. Why waste the 10 minutes it took submitting it when not only this one, but other known issues go unresolved for years.

  15. #15
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    This bug report form has some benefits over the old one, and the worst deficiencies are fairly easy to fix with some UI rearranging.

    I've said it before and will say it again: The order of items in the menu is super weird. First you put in a detailed description of the issue and then halfway down the page you select which game you're talking about, and have to select the game in multiple dual layer dropdown menus. We aren't playing LOTRO on Khyber.

    Suggestions for UI improvement
    1. First thing at the top of the page select OS/Game, and use that to filter choices in the rest of the dropdowns rather than having any dual-layer dropdowns.
    2. Either allow us to set some default values for a user account we can enter in the help account detail , or just use as a default the ones from the last reported bug/problem/whatever else for:
      Language, Platform & Product, Account Name, Full Name, OS, FTP/Premium/VIP, Server. These will all be the same most of the time (even if some people have multiple accounts/servers, they still won't lose anything over the current implementation if they have to click on a different one.
    3. If a user goes to this page by clicking in the game, send them to the page URL with the info needed to fill in some additional fields if at all possible (though I know some of this might not be easy/possible given game engine deficiencies):
      Character Name, Character Level, Character Class, Character Race, Loc, Server
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  16. #16
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Bug reports do significantly help both me and QA. I'm sorry the process isn't great.

    As for the "me being drowned in reports" dealio, I enjoy reaching out at times to allow the community to help prioritize me. I've been playing DDO for so long that I have grown pretty numb to some of the more, uh, crunchy parts of the process. Plus, being public about it helps the community keep track of what's going to be fixed.

    OP, what specifically was your issue?
    didnt mean to imply that this was a negative thing for either side. while I do get you might look at bugreports of stuff you got pointed to in that thread to get further info, if I have the choice I'll rather write you a short summary than bother with that clonky form.

    as Jotmon suggested it would be nice if all the relevant loc/quest/toon info could somehow be auto included in the form. since the submission is outside of the game engine though idk how that's supposed to work... would it be possible to create a chat command that when used creates a .txt file in the game's screenshot folder including relevant info, which then could be copy pasted into the submission form? just as a thought...

    like, type /bugreport and it automatically does a /loc, and then adds timestamp, server, quest, toon name, class split etc and dumps all that into one .txt
    Last edited by Eryhn; 06-18-2017 at 01:52 PM.

  17. #17
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    For me sometimes the external window for the bug reporting is so delayed in displaying that I weigh in my mind whether or not I want to wait to fill out the bug report in or out of quest and mostly I would rather go on with the quest if possible. So if it doesn't prevent me from finishing the quest I mostly just play on and then I often forget to bug report at all until I encounter the bug again.
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  18. #18
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    I think /bug should be a thing in the game. However imagine the trolling used.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I think /bug should be a thing in the game. However imagine the trolling used.
    To be honest, I have a sense that at some point this was an issue, nothing to base it on but I can see it happening based on my knowledge of how..well corporate environments work.

    Boss: "Johnson, why isn't update 36 out yet?"
    Johnson: "Well sir, we have a lot of bug reports we are going through and its difficult because we have to filter the trolls from the real bugs."
    Boss: "Don't worry Johnson, I'll fix this problem!"
    [Boss assigns a junior developer to change bug reporting to filter trolls (i.e. be a huge pain in the ass)]
    Boss: "Johnson, I took care of that bug problem, you shouldn't get any more trolls, now only the real bug reporters will go through the hassle of submitting a bug!"
    Johnson: "...ugh....fml..."

    But that's just how it plays out in my head, who knows if that is reality or not =P
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  20. #20
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    IIRC, some games have a /bug feature and doing so grabs location, a screenshot, and sends it in without much hassle. These kinds of bug reports would get sorted by machines and if they hit X threshold, an alert would go up. That X being from different players/ip's/account numbers. Whatever to filter the trolling/bots out.

    It would be nice if you had a bug key that brought an ingame form with metadata information prefilled and a template to fill out. Like:
    Summary: One line title for the bug. Like Ladder bug in Deleras part 2.
    Detailed Description:Detailed description of what led up to the bug and the expected result. You may want to include steps to reproduce and occurrence frequency (like every time I do this, a few times in the last dozen attempts/runs).
    Did it prevent quest completion? Yes/No
    Did it affect anyone else in your group? Yes/No

    It could include a screenshot as well. I mean, it could include several identifiers to prevent spamming before alerting their QA bug rep.

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