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  1. #41
    Community Member TitusOvid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    One of my expirence with the bug report was this.

    As many know you sometimes lash back to your soul stone if you run away from it if you want to use a shrine or get a raise from another player who waits for you at a safe spot.
    On reaper difficulty this cause your resurrection timer called Lingering Grip of Death sometimes to reset and you have to wait again.

    In the Update 34 Patch 1 Release Notes you can clearly read:
    Resurrection timers will no longer be reset after being pulled back to your soulstone for wandering too far from it.


    If I read this Release Note, I just assumed this is always the case, or at least it is intended to be always the case.
    Therefore I started to make bug reports in quests where it is not the case.

    After a few bug reports I made I recived this email:

    Standing Stone Games Quality Assurance Team (Standing Stone Games Help)

    Oct 20, 2:25 PM EDT
    Hello!

    Thanks for entering all these bug reports, though the Lingering Grip of Death resetting on leash is intended!

    -Kookiekobold

    Standing Stone Games, LLC.

    You may always search our FAQ or request support at
    help.standingstonegames.com


    priceless.

    I hope beyond all hope that someone from SSG is at least monitoring this. I mean it would be a good opportunity to engage in a constructive conversation about it but I doubt it will happen.
    You can prove me wrong though.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    On reaper difficulty this cause your resurrection timer called Lingering Grip of Death sometimes to reset and you have to wait again.

    In the Update 34 Patch 1 Release Notes you can clearly read:
    Resurrection timers will no longer be reset after being pulled back to your soulstone for wandering too far from it.


    If I read this Release Note, I just assumed this is always the case, or at least it is intended to be always the case.
    Therefore I started to make bug reports in quests where it is not the case.

    After a few bug reports I made I recived this email:

    Standing Stone Games Quality Assurance Team (Standing Stone Games Help)

    Oct 20, 2:25 PM EDT
    Hello!

    Thanks for entering all these bug reports, though the Lingering Grip of Death resetting on leash is intended!

    -Kookiekobold

    Standing Stone Games, LLC.

    You may always search our FAQ or request support at
    help.standingstonegames.com
    On reaper? I wonder if it leashes on the other difficulties?

  3. #43
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    On reaper? I wonder if it leashes on the other difficulties?
    you always leash back to your soul stone (sometimes there is a rare bug/glitch where the timer doesn't start and you can freely walk around) the point is the resurrection timer aka "Lingering Grip of Death" effect
    her is a link to the Update 34 Patch 1 Release Notes on DDOWIKI.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    you always leash back to your soul stone (sometimes there is a rare bug/glitch where the timer doesn't start and you can freely walk around) the point is the resurrection timer aka "Lingering Grip of Death" effect
    her is a link to the Update 34 Patch 1 Release Notes on DDOWIKI.
    The patch note was incorrect, and this is working as intended.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  5. #45
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    It doesnt need to take years or weeks

    They could just spend 30 minutes to put together a decent Google Form and provide the link in game

    Or a ton of other simple ideas...


    The real reason its not better, is that they dont care to make it better. Bug fixing is not a priority, which is why the bug fixing tools dont get any priority.

    The most effective way to get something fixed, is to bang on about it on the forum for ages ^^ (not because we want to, but because this is how they have taught us to)
    Last edited by goldgolem; 01-29-2018 at 11:29 AM.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The patch note was incorrect, and this is working as intended.
    So if I wanted to intentionally grief someone, I could just pick up their soulstone and keep running ahead of them until they leash so they could never come off timer?

  7. #47
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    I've sent a half dozen reports easily in the last few weeks - it isn't that hard. If OP is basically saying that the players are too lazy to take a few minutes to do it, then I suppose I can agree with that.

    In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice to have something like a /bug command that automatically gathers some info and pops up a screen for some text entry of details.. but how many people would bother to fill that out with appropriate info, either, that won't be bothered to take two seconds to open a browser and do it via the web form they have now?

    But the funny part to me is how many people *WILL* take the time to leave game, open a browser, navigate to forums, login, find the right forum, start a new post, and complain about this over and over.. that time alone would easily be numerous bugs' worth of submission.. I guess the player priority is complaining rather than providing bug reports.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    . I guess the player priority is complaining rather than providing bug reports.

    Let me fix that for you: Complaining because their bug reports don't seem to make the slightest difference. Driven by players not getting positive feedback from SSG, only negative feedback in the form of bugs not being fixed

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    I've sent a half dozen reports easily in the last few weeks - it isn't that hard. If OP is basically saying that the players are too lazy to take a few minutes to do it, then I suppose I can agree with that.

    In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice to have something like a /bug command that automatically gathers some info and pops up a screen for some text entry of details.. but how many people would bother to fill that out with appropriate info, either, that won't be bothered to take two seconds to open a browser and do it via the web form they have now?

    But the funny part to me is how many people *WILL* take the time to leave game, open a browser, navigate to forums, login, find the right forum, start a new post, and complain about this over and over.. that time alone would easily be numerous bugs' worth of submission.. I guess the player priority is complaining rather than providing bug reports.
    Do you find the easy to submit bug reports of yours end up seeing problems fixed? Do you have some examples of what you have previously submitted, and what the half dozen reports from the last few weeks were?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The patch note was incorrect, and this is working as intended.
    To consider your clients idiots - it's always faux pas.

    Much more like devs trying do things working as patch notes says, was (as often) unsuccessful, and now you say it's WAI. Sure, say patch notes is incorrect much simple, than really fix problem.

  11. #51
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    My reply was deleted after I pointed out that U34p1 did indeed fix some of those "rebounding" bug, as it was stated in the patch notes, and now KK and Cordo said it's WAI out of the blue after it has already been fixed once.

    K, sorry for reminding the community that a bug was not completely fixed and it's now been called WAI. And no, I'm not breaking any rules here, and I didn't even receive a warning. Just had my reply deleted.
    Last edited by Wizza; 01-30-2018 at 08:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The patch note was incorrect, and this is working as intended.
    1) ...Why? What possible reason could you guys have for the death timer to reset after leashing? Especially after taking the effort to put into patch notes that it was fixed so it didn't?
    2) So basically every time where the death timer doesn't reset after leashing is a bug, and I should be reporting that? Yeah, that's gonna happen LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    So if I wanted to intentionally grief someone, I could just pick up their soulstone and keep running ahead of them until they leash so they could never come off timer?
    I've actually had this happen to me... I don't think it was intentional griefing, it was just a barb with haste boost carrying me without even a striding item (this character uses expeditious retreat instead). I just simply couldn't keep up.
    "Ignorance killed the cat, sir; curiosity was framed."
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  13. #53
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfo View Post
    To consider your clients idiots - it's always faux pas.

    Much more like devs trying do things working as patch notes says, was (as often) unsuccessful, and now you say it's WAI. Sure, say patch notes is incorrect much simple, than really fix problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    My reply was deleted after I pointed out that U34p1 did indeed fix some of those "rebounding" bug, as it was stated in the patch notes, and now KK and Cordo said it's WAI out of the blue after it has already been fixed once.

    K, sorry for reminding the community that a bug was not completely fixed and it's now been called WAI. And no, I'm not breaking any rules here, and I didn't even receive a warning. Just had my reply deleted.
    Arthur Schopenhauer said in the wisdom of life something like: if your going to tell someone the truth you must be very careful and you can be glad if you get away with your raw life and health.
    A bit drastically but not very far from what we see here if your post is suddenly deleted just only because you tell them the uncomfortable truth.

    I made this example foremost because it showed to me quite clear that SSG doesn't really want bug reports, it is not really a part of there "company culture".
    The base communication problem with such bug report is simple, you tell someone he did something wrong!
    And the first reaction of a normal human being is to go into a defensive position.
    My example is quite good I think because it is a quite clear that I caught them with the hand in the cookie jar.
    And now they have something that we call in German "Erklärungsnot".
    as you said I was quite aware that there is a clear contradiction between the Patch note and the statement in the email I received and I was well aware that they really tried to make the change they announced in this patch note.
    But too bad they obviously failed.
    So it was clearly NOT just a little mistake in the patch note as Cordovan suddenly said. Indeed a bit hilarious If you see someone in "Erklärungsnot" because he tries to justify something that is obviously wrong.
    I had the real good intention to help on this problem and tell them everytime I notice it, the quest where this change did not happen as intended.
    The reaction on my work and effort was: please don't bother us!
    It was obvious to me that this is not WAI! so I answered the email and told them the patch not says clearly and therefore this can not be WAI besides they change their minds every week.
    I was in hope I get some kind of response to it but as usual, the reaction was ignorance.
    Which is, by the way, another reaction you have to expect if you tell someone the uncomfortable truth.

    Sorry guys but I don't fear you and even if you ignore me, I know I am right and I don't need your confirmation.
    Just my motivation to make bug reports is now even lower, but maybe this is what your intention was anyway.

    What I expect is simple. Be honest with yourself!
    Don't go the easy way and say something that is questionable is simple WAI because it could be WAI!
    See that if a player does a bug report it is WORK for him no matter how easy to use your bug report tool is!
    Respect the work and effort of your players/customers they do for you for free!
    You should even encourage players as much as possible to make bug reports and this could be at first a better way to make bug reports as it was demanded here in the thread.
    And the second is simply positive feedback if possible.
    Maybe even some kind of donation with DDO points or something if someone sends you a helpful bug report.
    Like some company even donate with real money if someone tells them bugs or possible exploits for there software.

    The bug report should be completely in game if possible.
    Most parts of the bug report could be filled in automatically, like the character name and the info from the /loc command.
    I think it is possible to fill in system information (grapic card ram size etc.) automatically.
    It would make sense if you could not only upload a screenshot, it should be possible too to upload an in game video because this can tell much more than a static picture.
    I have the impression that you think the player has to prove he is right but you must see it vice versa YOU must prove he is wrong.
    I can remember of postings by players that told you there is huge server lag and the response was always this must be YOUR problem it must be your PC or connection or something and only after players clearly proved it to you with videos you started to believe it and to work on it (and then it was getting much better).
    With the "hitching" of the game client issue, I had a much better impression how you handled this.
    And first of all: don't fear you get too many bug reports, fear you get not enough bug reports!
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
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  14. #54
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    1) ...Why? What possible reason could you guys have for the death timer to reset after leashing? Especially after taking the effort to put into patch notes that it was fixed so it didn't?
    2) So basically every time where the death timer doesn't reset after leashing is a bug, and I should be reporting that? Yeah, that's gonna happen LOL
    I was really going to do exactly this but vice versa. Because the bug report tool has no other option so I made a report each time I was aware of it in a quest (if I died, I intentionally tried it and ran away from my soul stone to test it. Or I asked someone who was dead to test this for me so I could do a report if there was a timer reset).
    In any case, it is basically not less work for them if you report now the quests where the timer doesn't reset besides they suddenly claim in some quests it is intended and in others not .
    And if you ask them for a reason why the timer should reset in some quests and in others not, it is most likely you will be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    I've actually had this happen to me... I don't think it was intentional griefing, it was just a barb with haste boost carrying me without even a striding item (this character uses expeditious retreat instead). I just simply couldn't keep up.
    It is quite clear that it would be strange if this is really WAI and your example is another reason that shows this. Sure it could be WAI and this opens the possibility to go the cheap and on the first gaze easy way to assert it.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  15. #55
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    Default Bug Reports Aren't Resolved Anyhow, But Are Marked As Solved

    This company's customer service is absolute S*H*I*T!! They mark the bug reports as solved. You go back and see that NOTHING HAS BEEN SOLVED. You have to file another complaint in some other manner, which will also likely be ignored. You cannot do these things in-game, because you're expected to stay on-line for 4+ hours waiting for a GM to finally show-up, or they just close your ticket anyhow. The author of the OP is correct. The information they request can be gotten out of the game, when you're online with that character, if you can log-in with that character.

    I still have a Druid, whose pet's feats are invalid, but she cannot choose new feats. I have a cleric with an item that is supposed to add +4 strength and +4 constitution, but adds NOTHING. These, among other issues, have been reported and UNRESOLVED for over a half-year!!!! I now have a cleric, who cannot level-up on her path.

    This company gouges money left and right for every little thing, has stopped supporting the paths for pretty much every class, but expects you to pay 90€ a year to play things like a monk. I started playing this game as a VIP player, because of the wide variety of paths offered for the classes. Back then, you only had to wait maybe an hour for a GM.

    Basically, this company is too lazy and greedy to provide proper customer service. The management are too stupid and short-sighted to see that they are running this game into the ground. It makes more sense to plan for profits over the next decade, rather than quick profits for the moment.

  16. #56
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    Default Software Developers Cannot Go On Defensive for Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    Arthur Schopenhauer said in the wisdom of life something like: if your going to tell someone the truth you must be very careful and you can be glad if you get away with your raw life and health.
    A bit drastically but not very far from what we see here if your post is suddenly deleted just only because you tell them the uncomfortable truth.

    I made this example foremost because it showed to me quite clear that SSG doesn't really want bug reports, it is not really a part of there "company culture".
    The base communication problem with such bug report is simple, you tell someone he did something wrong!
    And the first reaction of a normal human being is to go into a defensive position.
    My example is quite good I think because it is a quite clear that I caught them with the hand in the cookie jar.
    And now they have something that we call in German "Erklärungsnot".
    as you said I was quite aware that there is a clear contradiction between the Patch note and the statement in the email I received and I was well aware that they really tried to make the change they announced in this patch note.
    But too bad they obviously failed.
    ...
    I work in software development in East Germany. Bugs happen. This isn't seen as "someone did something wrong". It is seen as an interaction that doesn't work the way you want it to. Sometimes these guys have crappy, relic code; bulking or poorly written or organized. There are multiple ways to code something. Not all of them are the cleanest and best solution. My favorite quote from a dev is: "That's not a bug. It's a new feature under development". If SS is employing devs, who are that thin-skinned, they need an in-company psychiatrist. Bugs just mean that something in the game isn't working as desired. FIX THE DAMNED THING!! Stop marking the reports as Solved without fixing them. No one is paying money to deal with psychoses of other people.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherCeana View Post
    This company's customer service is absolute S*H*I*T!! They mark the bug reports as solved. You go back and see that NOTHING HAS BEEN SOLVED. You have to file another complaint in some other manner, which will also likely be ignored. You cannot do these things in-game, because you're expected to stay on-line for 4+ hours waiting for a GM to finally show-up, or they just close your ticket anyhow. The author of the OP is correct. The information they request can be gotten out of the game, when you're online with that character, if you can log-in with that character.

    I still have a Druid, whose pet's feats are invalid, but she cannot choose new feats. I have a cleric with an item that is supposed to add +4 strength and +4 constitution, but adds NOTHING. These, among other issues, have been reported and UNRESOLVED for over a half-year!!!! I now have a cleric, who cannot level-up on her path.

    This company gouges money left and right for every little thing, has stopped supporting the paths for pretty much every class, but expects you to pay 90€ a year to play things like a monk. I started playing this game as a VIP player, because of the wide variety of paths offered for the classes. Back then, you only had to wait maybe an hour for a GM.

    Basically, this company is too lazy and greedy to provide proper customer service. The management are too stupid and short-sighted to see that they are running this game into the ground. It makes more sense to plan for profits over the next decade, rather than quick profits for the moment.
    Ah, a fellow Necromancer!
    This is a mighty feat. That thread had been dead for 16 months, and yet, it lives!

    As for your complaint, I think you have a point, and that many issues take a lot longer to resolve than they should. If at all possible, I'd like it if there was a status on an opened ticket other than "open, closed".
    "Open, but we can't fix it right now."
    "Open, but known bug"
    "Closed, impossible to reproduce the error on our side"

    A reason WHY the ticket stays open or is closed would do wonders, at the very least.

  18. #58
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    Default Fix the bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    I've sent a half dozen reports easily in the last few weeks - it isn't that hard. If OP is basically saying that the players are too lazy to take a few minutes to do it, then I suppose I can agree with that.

    In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice to have something like a /bug command that automatically gathers some info and pops up a screen for some text entry of details.. but how many people would bother to fill that out with appropriate info, either, that won't be bothered to take two seconds to open a browser and do it via the web form they have now?

    But the funny part to me is how many people *WILL* take the time to leave game, open a browser, navigate to forums, login, find the right forum, start a new post, and complain about this over and over.. that time alone would easily be numerous bugs' worth of submission.. I guess the player priority is complaining rather than providing bug reports.
    Yeah. You're so superior. The fact is that regardless, the bugs aren't even being fixed. The OP is correct, as you admited in your second paragraph. We strive to FIX things, not cause our customers unnecessary inconvenience. Or did I blink?

    I've filed NUMEROUS bug reports. NONE OF THEM HAVE BEEN RESOLVED. Not a single one. Then, I have to go back into the internet and file yet another complaint for EVERY SINGLE issue. So, yeah. I'm going to get on here and complain about it. Why? Because NOTHING ELSE HELPS.

    Did your post help? Trying to make paying victims of the laziness of SSG sound like it is THEIR fault? Nope.

  19. #59
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Just a renegade thought : Could it be marked as "solved" because the thing was forwarded internally to the devs ? I don't know.

    I just have no idea how else a non-programming customer support person might be able to actually fix something that requires looking at the actual code ...



    As for bug reporting itself : I don't quite understand why there aren't just 2 forms for bug reporting : 1 for DDo, 1 for LOTRO. This way that part wouldn't even needed to be filled out.
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    OP, what specifically was your issue?
    Not OP, but main reason I don't fill bug reports is that 75% of report is redundant data which I see no reason to fill at all, and just thinking on filling it makes me give up on reporting.

    Example: few days ago I ran into "fall through" part of scenery in Cogs, thought about filling a report and just gave up when I remembered how long it took last time I did that.

    Many other pointed out flaws in current system.

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