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  1. #1

    Default U36: Artificer & Battle Engineer Changes

    Hello!
    In the not-too-distant future (u36), a revamp to Artificer Battle Engineer, as well as some Artificer class features, will be heading your way! Here's what to expect:


    Base class:
    • Rune Arm cooldown is improved by 30%. (This is the improvement that Thermal Venting currently gives, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    • Rune Arm Charge Decay while moving is reduced by 50%. (This is the improvement that Arcane Capacitors currently gives, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    • There is no longer a penalty to movement speed while charging a Rune Arm.
    • Artificers now get Warhammer and Light Hammer proficiencies.
    • Improved Critical: Bludgeoning has been added to the Arti class feat list.
    • Artificer Admixture spells now fire straight down if the caster has themself hard-targeted. (This will essentially deploy it on you... assuming you're standing on solid ground.)
    • Lightning Sphere now has a functional saving throw - for both monster AND player casters


    Rune Arms:

    • (Note: None of this really applies to Knives Eternal, Machinations of Madness, or Whirling Words. They were already doing most of this.)
    • Rune Arm shots now scale with 100% Spell Power. Most were scaling at 50% or 80% previously.
    • Rune Arm weapon imbues now scale with 200% Melee or Ranged power (whichever is higher)
    • Homing on Rune Arms now works at about the same angles you can shoot a crossbow at and still hit your target (roughly 80 degrees). It was previously about 20 degrees for most Rune Arms, meaning you'd be shooting your crossbow and hitting your target, but your Rune Arm shots would just shoot wherever your camera was looking. Long story short, homing should be more reliable now.
    • Cannonball Shot (used by Glass Cannon) now uses homing.
    • Cannonball Shot now has a much smaller projectile, which fixes a lot of bad behavior, such as:
      • It should no longer create the projectile behind a creature you're fighting at melee range
      • It should no longer instantly explode on firing because you're playing a Gnome or Halfling and the projectile was taller than you were





    Tree Changes:


    Core 2: Gets +1 Stable Charge Tier in addition to everything it already does. (This replaces Rune Arm Overcharge, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    Core 4: Gets +1 Stable Charge Tier in addition to everything it already does. (This replaces Rune Arm Overcharge, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    Core 5: Gains +15 PRR and MRR in addition to everything it already does.
    Core 6: Gains +2 INT (for a total of +4), +1 Competence bonus to Crit Multiplier with Crossbows, Bastard Swords, Dwarven Axes, Light Hammers, Warhammers, and Morningstars in addition to everything it already does.

    Tier 1:
    Weapon Training: Add third line: Light Hammers, Warhammers, Morningstars.
    Field Engineer: No changes.
    NEW: Field Scrapper: +1/2/3 to Sunder DCs.
    Thaumaturgical Conduits: (Moved down from Tier 2)
    Item Defense: No changes.

    Tier 2:
    Weapon Training: Add third line: Light Hammers, Warhammers, Morningstars.
    Wrack Construct: Made sure it matches Mechanic's version.
    NEW: Caustic Strike: (Melee: +1/2/3 [w]) (Crossbow: +0.5/1/1.5[w]), adds 3d6 Acid damage and 10d6 Rust damage. This damage scales with Spell Power. Ranged variant requires a crossbow. 6 second cooldown.
    Extra Action Boost: (Moved down from Tier 3)
    Attack or Damage Boost: (Attack moved in here from T1, made multiselect with Damage.)

    Tier 3:
    Weapon Training: Add third line: Light Hammers, Warhammers, Morningstars.
    Disable Construct: Made sure it matches Mechanic's version.
    STR/DEX/INT: No changes.

    Tier 4:
    Weapon Training: Add third line: Light Hammers, Warhammers, Morningstars.
    Battle Mastery (Fusilade/Haste Boost): Fusilade now lasts for 18 seconds (was 6).
    NEW: Shatter Defenses: (Melee: +1/2/3 [w]) (Crossbow: +0.5/1/1.5[w]), procs Improved Sunder. DC 14+INT Mod+Sunder bonuses. Ranged variant requires a crossbow. 10 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Sunder.
    NEW: Agility Engine: 3/6/10% Doublestrike and Doubleshot while wearing a Rune Arm.
    STR/DEX/INT: No changes.


    Tier 5:
    NEW: Reconstructed Armaments: +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range with chosen line (Crossbows, Hand-and-a-half, or Hammers/Morningstar).
    Weapon Attachment: No changes.
    NEW: Thunder-Shock Weapon: (Melee: +3 [w]) (Crossbow: 1.5[w]), +3d6 Electric Damage which scales with Spell Power. Procs Trip, DC 14+INT Mod+Sunder Bonuses. Ranged variant requires a crossbow. 12 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Trip.
    NEW: Unlock Potential: +20 Melee and Ranged Power while wearing a Rune Arm.
    Tactical Mobility: Move 10% faster while wielding Rune Arm.

    ----

    FAQs!

    What's the current status of this feature?
    Built and ready to roll out with U36. That said, there's still time to make adjustments (though not enough time to wholly alter direction).

    Why Hammers and Morningstars?


    • Artificers in P&P don't especially excel with one weapon type or another, but there are a fair few official images of them with these kinds of weapons.
    • We wanted a bludgeoning option, as well as some simple/martial options
    • All three of these weapons are somewhat underserved in DDO
    • Synergy with the Onatar deity, who has similar themes
    • Synergy with Gnomes and Dwarves, who make good Artificers in P&P and also get bonuses with these weapons.


    There aren't a lot of good Hammers and Morningstars out there right now...
    • Fair! But there will be more.


    Why is the Crossbow damage lower on the actives?
    • Artificers tend to focus on Repeaters, who get extra returns from +[w] attacks. Cutting it by half, but multiplying it by three shots still comes out a bit ahead.


    Why isn't Weapon Attachment getting changes?
    • It just got some upgrades during the Race Tree Pass.


    Does Endless Fusillade still have that super-long windup animation?
    • Yes! ...But we also tripled its duration without increasing its cost. Keeping the animation means we can make it a lot more powerful.


    Any changes to Arcanotechnician?
    • Not at this time. They just got a pass a little over a year ago!


    So? This pass is bigger than that one was!
    • Arcanotechnician before that pass was a better tree than Battle Engineer is now (on Live) - It's a solid tree in its current state (with some good builds using it), and the base class changes above will help them.


    Rune Arms DCs are really difficult to attain in Epics!
    • Yep. At this point, they have the same DC as a 10th level Artificer spell, more or less. Which isn't the easiest to attain! That isn't best fixed in the Battle Engineer tree, though. Arcanotechnician has a leg up on attaining those DCs (as it should). We added a few things behind the scenes as part of this pass that will help us better improve Rune Arm DCs in the future, if needed. In any case, most Rune Arms will be doing more damage than before regardless of DCs.


    You didn't mention the poor Iron Defenders here, they're still terrible!
    • Yes, they are. In working on this pass, we did a lot of meetings, research, and discussion about Arti dog and Druid wolf pets - And came to the conclusion that a meaningful pass to improve them (not even including AI changes, just statistic and enhancement based) was going to take twice as long as the Arti pass above, at minimum. It's something we'd love to do someday, as they're a core part of these classes; it's just not in the cards for the moment.


    Third Tree?

    • I wish. Not yet, sorry.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  2. #2
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    Time to get my Artificer out of its mothballs....
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  3. #3
    Community Member YUTANG75's Avatar
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    I am so hyped for U36. These changes are great. I'll pick out some of my favourites.


    • Rune Arm cooldown is improved by 30%. (This is the improvement that Thermal Venting currently gives, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    • Rune Arm Charge Decay while moving is reduced by 50%. (This is the improvement that Arcane Capacitors currently gives, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    • There is no longer a penalty to movement speed while charging a Rune Arm.

    Just great to hear. Especially the removal of the movement speed penalty.


    • Homing on Rune Arms now works at about the same angles you can shoot a crossbow at and still hit your target (roughly 80 degrees). It was previously about 20 degrees for most Rune Arms, meaning you'd be shooting your crossbow and hitting your target, but your Rune Arm shots would just shoot wherever your camera was looking. Long story short, homing should be more reliable now.
    • Cannonball Shot now has a much smaller projectile, which fixes a lot of bad behavior, such as:
      • It should no longer create the projectile behind a creature you're fighting at melee range
      • It should no longer instantly explode on firing because you're playing a Gnome or Halfling and the projectile was taller than you were

    My dwarf says thank you very much. It was so annoying having my runearm explode in my face all the time...


    • Core 6: Gains +2 INT (for a total of +4), +1 Competence bonus to Crit Multiplier with Crossbows, Bastard Swords, Dwarven Axes, Light Hammers, Warhammers, and Morningstars in addition to everything it already does.
    • NEW: Reconstructed Armaments: +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range with chosen line (Crossbows, Hand-and-a-half, or Hammers/Morningstar).
    • NEW: Thunder-Shock Weapon: (Melee: +3 [w]) (Crossbow: 1.5[w]), +3d6 Electric Damage which scales with Spell Power. Procs Trip, DC 14+INT Mod+Sunder Bonuses. Ranged variant requires a crossbow. 12 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Trip.
    • NEW: Unlock Potential: +20 Melee and Ranged Power while wearing a Rune Arm.
    • Tactical Mobility: Move 10% faster while wielding Rune Arm.

    Finally, a way to improve my crit range!
    Why does the trip effect use Sunder bonuses??
    Unlock potential is decent but seems a bit bland.
    Tatical Mobility is cool now.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    is there a possibility of adding handaxes to the crit profile core at least (and maybe if the stars align to the melee enhancement progression, too?)



    Forgotten Axe looked tasty until I remembered swashing a handaxe works with CHA to dmg, but not CHA to HIT.

    technically speaking handaxes are kinda neglected, too in enhances? maybe they could shine a bit with INT to dmg and INT to hit? given it's 1d6 base dmg only shouldnt be all too strong even with a named crit profile handaxe?
    Last edited by Eryhn; 06-06-2017 at 12:00 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Ryethiel's Avatar
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    What about the casted imbues, such as Elemental Weapons, and Deadly Weapons? They should be changed to behave more like Holy Sword, so that you don't have to recast them for each weapon, and can see the duration. Would be awesome.

    No changes to Construct Exemplar? It's an awfully expensive feat, when you consider picking Warforged is absolutely free, and gets you all of those benefits right at level 1, instead of 21. Maybe change it to level 16, so it doesn't cost an Epic Feat? That is a deal breaker for it.

    Overall, I likes what I see in the Tree changes. Ranged Trip, that's gonna be nice.
    Last edited by Ryethielnas; 06-09-2017 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Typo(s)
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  6. #6
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    Strong work Steelstar...I particularly like the caustic strike, shatter defenses, thunder shock line...please keep this

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post


    Base class:
    • Artificers now get Warhammer and Light Hammer proficiencies.
    • Improved Critical: Bludgeoning has been added to the Arti class feat list.
    • Artificer Admixture spells now fire straight down if the caster has themself hard-targeted. (This will essentially deploy it on you... assuming you're standing on solid ground.)
    • Lightning Sphere now has a functional saving throw - for both monster AND player casters
    - Hammer implies artifice (see Blacksmith(...It will be fun to see if I can make a Throw Your Weight Around Dwarven Con Artificer. I'm glad bludgeoning is now an Arti class feat
    - I'm a frequent user of the Admixture Spells...being able to target myself more reliably is encouraging,...as is the more reliable rune arm shot
    - I run Lord of Blades more than any other raid....Getting rid of the autostun feature is a blessing


    [
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    You didn't mention the poor Iron Defenders here, they're still terrible!
    • Yes, they are. In working on this pass, we did a lot of meetings, research, and discussion about Arti dog and Druid wolf pets - And came to the conclusion that a meaningful pass to improve them (not even including AI changes, just statistic and enhancement based) was going to take twice as long as the Arti pass above, at minimum. It's something we'd love to do someday, as they're a core part of these classes; it's just not in the cards for the moment.
    Please keep dogs/wolves on the project short list. I love both in concept even if application currently falls behind

  7. #7
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    All of this right after DDOCast did a Runearm episode XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Hello!
    In the not-too-distant future (u36), a revamp to Artificer Battle Engineer, as well as some Artificer class features, will be heading your way! Here's what to expect:


    Base class:
    • Artificers now get Warhammer and Light Hammer proficiencies.
    Why not Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe profciency as well?

    Right now I have to spend Feats for those profs. and the Weapons Training line for Battle Engineer lists; Hand and a Half Training: +1 to attack and damage rolls with Bastard Swords and Dwarven Waraxes. Your Glancing Blows with these weapons also have a +4% chance of producing magical weapon effects such as Flaming.

    I understand the gnome arty appeal of adding Warhammer, etc, but how about giving us a toggle between Warhammer/Light Hammer or Bastard Sword/Dwarven Ax?

  9. #9
    Community Member Steve_Howe's Avatar
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    Endless Fusilade...18 Seconds...CANNOT wait!!!
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    Default Heads up folks on Trip

    You cannot trip while using a crossbow.

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    Default Rune Arm use and Core

    Depending on how many class levels a player takes, will determine how far you can move thru the Core of an Enhancement Tree.

    I feel arties should get more rune arm goodies without having to spend extra in tress as they advance thru the Core.

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    NEW: Thunder-Shock Weapon: (Melee: +3 [w]) (Crossbow: 1.5[w]), +3d6 Electric Damage which scales with Spell Power. Procs Trip, DC 14+INT Mod+Sunder Bonuses. Ranged variant requires a crossbow. 12 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Trip.

    The melee variant of this attack should be imho changed into a (mini-)cleave. Why share cooldown with Trip? Seems unnecessary.

    Melee artificer is squishy. Any ideas how to improve that aspect? Introduce some mechanics to use rune arm for temporary HP, rather than firing it?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Lightning Sphere now has a functional saving throw - for both monster AND player casters
    For this alone, I approve of U36!


    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    NEW: Thunder-Shock Weapon: (Melee: +3 [w]) (Crossbow: 1.5[w]), +3d6 Electric Damage which scales with Spell Power. Procs Trip, DC 14+INT Mod+Sunder Bonuses. Ranged variant requires a crossbow. 12 second cooldown, shares a cooldown with Trip.
    Is it a typo that this trip attempt uses sunder bonuses instead?
    Last edited by Ovrad; 06-06-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livmo View Post
    You cannot trip while using a crossbow.
    There goes that idea...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Hello!
    snip
    Lots of cool juicy stuff in here, just one question:

    Is there anything lore related that would prevent someone from making an Artificer that specializes in THROWING weapons with a rune arm instead of limiting it to Xbows? Xbows are super OP at the moment on pure Rogues and throwers still don't have any identity outside of monk levels. We wouldn't get fusillade but even admixtures are technically thrown. Artificers should love to throw grenades and charged up, imbued knives and axes left right and center as far as I am concerned.

    All I'm asking for is considering allowing some of these abilities to work with thrown weapons. These are great trees that could make really fun thrower builds combined with Bard or Monk.

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    Default Actions Boosts

    Can we get Action Boost to Hit and Action Boost to Melee/Ranged Power on seperate cool downs?

    It would be great to be able to do this is again:

    Action Boost to Hit + Action Boost to Melee/Ranged Power + Stormrage (Primal ED) + Endless Fuselodge.

  17. #17
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    As someone who loves runearms but always therefore feels like I *have* to take a deep dive into BE, I really like these changes. /meh, could tweak a few numbers here and there, but overall, this is just the kind of "medium boost" that was needed for the tree and the class.

    But yes prithee, pets pass, pretty please!
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  18. #18
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livmo View Post
    Depending on how many class levels a player takes, will determine how far you can move thru the Core of an Enhancement Tree.

    I feel arties should get more rune arm goodies without having to spend extra in tress as they advance thru the Core.
    They do - did you not see the 'class' changes? Those are serious QOL bumps to all arties who use runearms. Eliminating the movement speed penalty was a primary reason I would always, always go into BE, and the new cooldown reduction is just icing.

    Admittedly, they haven't said if the class thing is level gated or if its just L1 in the class, so you might still be entirely right in terms of needing more class levels than perhaps you might want. But as long as you have all of that by L6 I wouldn't see that as a huge problem.
    Last edited by dunklezhan; 06-06-2017 at 01:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Hello!
    In the not-too-distant future (u36), a revamp to Artificer Battle Engineer, as well as some Artificer class features, will be heading your way! Here's what to expect:


    Base class:
    • Rune Arm cooldown is improved by 30%. (This is the improvement that Thermal Venting currently gives, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    • Rune Arm Charge Decay while moving is reduced by 50%. (This is the improvement that Arcane Capacitors currently gives, which has been removed from the BE tree.)
    • There is no longer a penalty to movement speed while charging a Rune Arm.


    ...
    I stopped reading there already to express a !!

    I like the fixes/changes for Glass Cannon, but can those also be applied to Strinati's Handcannon? At least the projectile size part if not the Homing. That "explode at feet" thing happens to my Human Arty as well. It 's not just a short thing. [edit: ...if it isn't already. Upon reread, the change is to "cannonball shot", so hoping this already applies to S.H.]

    -----------


    And looking forward to that Mechnpup pass in the future....

    No expectations. None. Really....





    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 06-06-2017 at 03:33 PM.
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  20. #20
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    It looks great Steel! Very nice work. All of the changes look appropriate both in terms of catching up with today's power creep and thematically.

    The only question/comment I have is this. Every other action boost except for swashbuckler's doublestrike/doubleshot costs 1 AP per rank. Will battle engineer's attack/damage boost and haste boost/endless fusilade costs be reduced to 1 AP per rank to be in line with the others, or will it remain the 2 AP per rank that it currently costs?
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