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  1. #1
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    Default Could we please get rid of healing undead being the default.

    This is by far the stupidest piece of garbage that has lingered in this game. And yeah, I just almost died from it again and it is very, very, very, annoying. WHY ASSUME I ALWAYS WANT TO ATTACK THE UNDEAD WHEN I CAST A HEALING SPELL? Why assume that? You should assume the opposite. Because the opposite is almost always true. Does anyone try to kill undead by healing them? Anyone? There are far better ways to kill undead if you do. I could maybe see an area heal hitting many at one time, but to single heal an undead to death is moronic. Please give me a clicky option, on the tool bar icon maybe, like the meta magics, that turns off auto heal undead if selected. Please. Please.

  2. #2
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    Try remembering not to have them targeted, they aren't going to waste time "fixing" it for you.

  3. #3
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    Default It auto targets

    Quote Originally Posted by driedupheart View Post
    Try remembering not to have them targeted, they aren't going to waste time "fixing" it for you.
    It auto targets every time my cursor goes over an undead or an undead runs in front of my cursor. If I'm in a situation where three champs are following me it isn't possible to find a safe place that I can pause and take my time. I hit f1 but if there are lots of undead it switches back almost immediately. I could turn off auto targeting but I shouldn't have to do without auto targeting because of one design flaw. It makes no sense.

  4. #4
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    So instead of adapting to the game environment, you want them to spend an update's worth of effort to recode healing to suit your needs? XD

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    WHY ASSUME I ALWAYS WANT TO ATTACK THE UNDEAD WHEN I CAST A HEALING SPELL? Why assume that?
    It doesn't assume that. It only does that if you have them targeted.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Does anyone try to kill undead by healing them? Anyone?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    There are far better ways to kill undead if you do.
    Depends. Turn Undead, and Undeath To Death are better for groups of trash non-Deathblocked undead. But sometimes a Heal is the perfect solution to that champ or red-named undead.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    ...to single heal an undead to death is moronic.
    Is it? To be unable to figure out how to heal yourself is more moronic, it seems to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Please give me a clicky option, on the tool bar icon maybe, like the meta magics, that turns off auto heal undead if selected. Please. Please.
    That's actually a good suggestion. It's been made before, but it's still a good suggestion. Too bad you didn't start with that, instead of proclaiming your play issues as if they were universal truths, and insulting people who don't have those same issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    It auto targets every time my cursor goes over an undead or an undead runs in front of my cursor. If I'm in a situation where three champs are following me it isn't possible to find a safe place that I can pause and take my time. I hit f1 but if there are lots of undead it switches back almost immediately. I could turn off auto targeting but I shouldn't have to do without auto targeting because of one design flaw. It makes no sense.
    That paragraph makes no sense. Things just randomly get targeted for no reason when you don't want them to? If that were true, something I've never encountered, that sounds like the real problem, and much more urgently in need of a fix.
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  6. #6

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    I agree with OP--DDO has an active combat system with a lot going on. A metamagic/toggle is a good idea.

    Pre-coccoon, heal scrolls were the main form of self-healing. I am not sure how a toggle would work for scroll use.

    It is odd that heal auto-selects undead--to use heal on undead as an attack is the exception more than the rule for scroll use. No clue for spells.

    I think the rule should be self-targeted.
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  7. #7
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    Sounds weird, for me heals are always on self unless actively targeted even auto targeting on.. Must be some setting on auto-targeting i'm not aware of..

  8. #8
    Community Member Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    try hitting g. that is the soft target button i think and will stop the autotargeting
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    While I don't think this is an issue that needs to be "fixed", I would not be against adding in a toggle that would remove the "attack" portion of the cure/healing.

    As a long time player of classes that use cure/heal/LoH abilities I have gotten in the habit of F1 + Heal ability when fighting undead or I just opt to use mass abilities on characters that use those.

  10. #10
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    ...a toggle that would remove the "attack" portion of the cure/healing.
    If it's possible, that's the only good solution I can think of.

    Regardless of opinion/efficiency, offensively "Healing" the Undead should remain an option for those that want it. Plus, defaulting heals to "self" just as the role of Party Healer has started reemerging seems like a... well actually rather Turbineish come to think of it... strange move to make.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  11. #11
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    This is by far the stupidest piece of garbage that has lingered in this game. And yeah, I just almost died from it again and it is very, very, very, annoying. WHY ASSUME I ALWAYS WANT TO ATTACK THE UNDEAD WHEN I CAST A HEALING SPELL? Why assume that? You should assume the opposite. Because the opposite is almost always true. Does anyone try to kill undead by healing them? Anyone? There are far better ways to kill undead if you do. I could maybe see an area heal hitting many at one time, but to single heal an undead to death is moronic. Please give me a clicky option, on the tool bar icon maybe, like the meta magics, that turns off auto heal undead if selected. Please. Please.
    consider it a superpower for undead where they feed off positive energy like heals. Knowing you are targeting them while healing is part of their evil plan. Bwahahahaha!
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him.

  12. #12
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    It's annoying. But just go into key mapping and change 'Select Yourself' to a key of your choosing. I use and recommend left alt. Its extremely useful and not that difficult.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    I just target what I want to cast the heal on, ingenious I know.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    I just target what I want to cast the heal on, ingenious I know.
    This solution is problematic for some situations.

    Just this morning I was soloing Cursed Crypt on my wf melee favored soul. The end fight's vampire has noticeably more hit points than the two mini-bosses, so this fight took a while for me. I hadn't killed any silver flame up to the end fight, and I was going for the optional win where you don't kill any.

    So now I've got a rednamed vampire I want to kill, four silver flame, and four wolves chasing me. I have to be careful with my greatsword not to kill the silver flame with glancing blows, so it's a matter of running around spamming the tab key in order to hard-target the vampire. That takes at least 30 seconds. Once hard targeted, I charge the vampire and manage to land 0 to 3 twitched strikes. (Twitching to force the over the head attack animation for minimal glancing.)

    By the time I land those 0 to 3 twitch strikes, I'm now down to half health due to all the wolves and silver flame beating on me, so I jump out and now have to hard-target myself in order to heal. Now another 30 seconds of running around trying to hard target the vampire, 0 to 3 more twitch strikes, jump out, hard target myself, heal, lather rinse repeat.

    Over five minutes into the fight, the vampire was down to maybe 33% health but I finally accidentally killed a silver flame with glancing blows. That ended the fight almost immediately, as I simply stopped and cleaved everyone dead in seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Regardless of opinion/efficiency, offensively "Healing" the Undead should remain an option for those that want it.
    The devs already gimped the usefulness of offensive heals when they removed the ability to Heighten heal, so they clearly understand that offensive Heal is a niche use at best. It seems perfectly reasonable to allow us to go the rest of the way and configure our heals to be "ally only."

    Reminder of the player reaction when they made this change can be found here. This fix was the epitome of Turbine development: heightening healing spells was an albatross for players for years, until finally they let us choose which metamagics we wanted to apply to individual spells. And then they disallowed heightening Heal.

  15. #15

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    I usually keep Heal in the "Oh no!" position on my hot bar and I do find I accidentally cast it on undead sometimes.
    But I also want to keep positive energy hurting undead. Maybe single Heal isn't used a ton but mass and bursts sure are.
    They could always just add a spell somewhere in the Heal range that was like a self-only Cure/Panacea combo that people could use as the "oh no!" spell that wouldn't cast on undead. That way they can keep everything else as is.
    It's not a issue for me, but if they happen to be going into the spells anyway, I'd like to see that.
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  16. #16
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driedupheart View Post
    Try remembering not to have them targeted, they aren't going to waste time "fixing" it for you.
    You mean like every soul alive. Does anyone even actually tab? Maybe a melee..? I mean if your ranged your manually aiming that those rounds to rip through multiple mobs. Unless you screwed up the build, if your whipping a fireball or something ur damn sure manually aiming the spell lol.

    However no one realizes yet just why the blade are that much better! Try and heal a mob with recon, even an evil robot lol.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  17. #17
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    This solution is problematic for some situations.

    Just this morning I was soloing Cursed Crypt on my wf melee favored soul. The end fight's vampire has noticeably more hit points than the two mini-bosses, so this fight took a while for me. I hadn't killed any silver flame up to the end fight, and I was going for the optional win where you don't kill any.

    So now I've got a rednamed vampire I want to kill, four silver flame, and four wolves chasing me. I have to be careful with my greatsword not to kill the silver flame with glancing blows, so it's a matter of running around spamming the tab key in order to hard-target the vampire. That takes at least 30 seconds. Once hard targeted, I charge the vampire and manage to land 0 to 3 twitched strikes. (Twitching to force the over the head attack animation for minimal glancing.)

    By the time I land those 0 to 3 twitch strikes, I'm now down to half health due to all the wolves and silver flame beating on me, so I jump out and now have to hard-target myself in order to heal. Now another 30 seconds of running around trying to hard target the vampire, 0 to 3 more twitch strikes, jump out, hard target myself, heal, lather rinse repeat.

    Over five minutes into the fight, the vampire was down to maybe 33% health but I finally accidentally killed a silver flame with glancing blows. That ended the fight almost immediately, as I simply stopped and cleaved everyone dead in seconds.

    The devs already gimped the usefulness of offensive heals when they removed the ability to Heighten heal, so they clearly understand that offensive Heal is a niche use at best. It seems perfectly reasonable to allow us to go the rest of the way and configure our heals to be "ally only."

    Reminder of the player reaction when they made this change can be found here. This fix was the epitome of Turbine development: heightening healing spells was an albatross for players for years, until finally they let us choose which metamagics we wanted to apply to individual spells. And then they disallowed heightening Heal.
    Use hotkeys to target. This game is so easy and casual it's amazing to me what people complain about.
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  18. #18
    Community Member zehnvhex's Avatar
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    If you used F1 to target yourself then you shouldn't have retargeted the mobs on mouseover.

    This sounds like one of those "I can't believe I just died to this I need to rage to someone" moments so I'm not going to be too hard on the OP. We've all had them. 90% of my deaths in DDO come from stupid BS out of my control like bad targeting, bad orders of operation (Unyielding fires, goes on cooldown, yet I still die for example) and so on and so forth. I can't count the number of times I nuked a mob instead of healed myself on my pale cleric.

    I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of toggle for heal/inflict spells. Sounds like a nice quality of life change.
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  19. #19
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    The devs already gimped the usefulness of offensive heals when they removed the ability to Heighten heal, so they clearly understand that offensive Heal is a niche use at best. It seems perfectly reasonable to allow us to go the rest of the way and configure our heals to be "ally only."

    Reminder of the player reaction when they made this change can be found here. This fix was the epitome of Turbine development: heightening healing spells was an albatross for players for years, until finally they let us choose which metamagics we wanted to apply to individual spells. And then they disallowed heightening Heal.
    Not sure what the Devs dropping Heighten off the list back then has to do with it. When I said it should remain an option - however inefficient - I was rembering my first Elite run through "The Church and the Cult." The boss vamp had DR and none of us had Silver weapons; we did have a Pally, a couple Halflings with Dragonmarks and a Rogue UMDing Cure Scrolls... and "healing him to death" was the difference between completion and impossibility. (Not that it was a tactic I'd recomend, just that without it we were unable to even hurt let alone kill the boss.)
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Use hotkeys to target. This game is so easy and casual it's amazing to me what people complain about.
    Are you sure you understood what you quoted? How do you assign a hotkey to hard target a specific enemy?

    Hard-targeting myself with F1 was trivially easy. It was trying to target just the vampire boss in the middle of 9 mobs that was the hard part. And I had to repeatedly do it because once targeted, I could no longer heal myself until I un-targeted him, being an undead vampire and all.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Not sure what the Devs dropping Heighten off the list back then has to do with it.
    It's an offensive spell with a saving throw, and they removed heighten from working with it. Thus, the devs deliberately nerfed its offensive utility.

    Another way to say it: Using heal offensively has been deprecated.

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