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  1. #1
    Community Member difasja's Avatar
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    Default Pause new content, just fix known issues for one cycle

    It will probably go no where but I'd like to make a pitch to take one update cycle and use it just to fix known issues. I think that in the long run that would generate more revenue for SSGs as it would, I think, stem the slow bleed away of players who leave in frustration that they can not play the game as intended or have their builds undermined by issues that make playing a build too difficult to bother with. I like new content as much as the next person, but as a VIP, I'd much rather have a whole **** pot full of issues cleared up and wait a couple of months on content. I don't know know how SSGs feels about this, I'd love to see someone from SSG respond to this note. But if you agree with me please reply with a YES and maybe we can convince them to give this a try. Cheers!

  2. #2
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by difasja View Post
    It will probably go no where but I'd like to make a pitch to take one update cycle and use it just to fix known issues. I think that in the long run that would generate more revenue for SSGs as it would, I think, stem the slow bleed away of players who leave in frustration that they can not play the game as intended or have their builds undermined by issues that make playing a build too difficult to bother with. I like new content as much as the next person, but as a VIP, I'd much rather have a whole **** pot full of issues cleared up and wait a couple of months on content. I don't know know how SSGs feels about this, I'd love to see someone from SSG respond to this note. But if you agree with me please reply with a YES and maybe we can convince them to give this a try. Cheers!
    Which known issues are game-breaking for you? Serious question.
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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  3. #3
    Community Member difasja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Which known issues are game-breaking for you? Serious question.
    Four major issues with the Ranger.
    1. +1 Competence bonus to critical damage multiplier broken for tempest (core enhancement)
    2. Two tier 5 tempest enhancements bugged, only work if you hit when activating them
    3. Arcane archer shadow arrows +1 to critical damage multiplier broken
    3. Elven arcane archer tree is very buggy, multiple tier five enhancements don't work

    Yes I know there is no $$s in fixing a free class, but it's the one I like to play. Maybe I'm wrong but I wonder if there are not similar issues with other classes?

  4. #4
    Community Member Riddle_of_Steel's Avatar
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    The issue there is that without new content they don't have any additional revenue generation. I know that most of the posters here seem to assume the majority of the population is VIP but it most likely isn't. I know the hardcore 6-10 hour a day types are all mostly VIP but they are a very small portion of the player base. Most of the people I meet in Pugs and about half the people I play with regularly are Premium. If I were to estimate based on the players I meet I would say it's something like
    • 45% Full Premium (meaning all or at least all that are worth it packs / boosts bought)
    • 30% VIP
    • 20% Partial Premium (Some content purchased)
    • 5% Free to Play


    If my, admittedly anecdotal, estimates are close they really can't afford to have MONTHS without content. They might have a window right now to do A month without content as Racial TR's can be purchased with a couple hours and $50 and I have NO doubt that they brought in a nice bump with the last Otto's sale. I expect many will be "busy enough" with the Racial TR grind and if they did another Otto's box sale say in 2 weeks that ought to bring in the coin they need to afford the lack of content but they would pretty much have to drop the Ravenloft expansion (that EVERYONE needs to buy) shortly after in order to keep a solid revenue stream going.

    What I think we are likely to see (and probably works best from a revenue generation standpoint) is the current cycle where new content is released and then a series of hotfix / updates come after to smooth out the new content and occasionally poach off a couple of the "known issues".

    What I would really love is if they could afford to dedicate a dev to simply working on known issues that WERE NOT introduced with the new content. Basically a guy who's plugging away at some of the old (and probably more complicated) issues that have been around for a long time. From where I am standing these issues seem to get addressed when they become a particular dev's pet peeve and she wants to dive into it and smooth it out. A wonderful example of this was conjure bolts (though granted it's not a "bug"). MANY players complained that you needed to fill so much of your inventory with bolts as repeaters chewed through them quickly and standing there casting the spell a bajillion times was a complete PITA. It wasn't until a dev (can't remember which one) took up a full time Arty that it got addressed to be a 1000 bolt stack from 1 casting. I recall clearly that the dev posted (or maybe it was in a live stream) about how frustrating that was so he changed it.

    I don't believe they actually have someone who's only job is to hunt down and crush really old bugs. They only time that seems to happen is if the old bugs are related to a class / tree / quest that they are revamping. Look at handwraps, they spent most of a decade borked and it wasn't until U33 when they finally went in and updated some trees and Monk stances that they went in and actually fixed and adjusted them. Unfortunately some of the bugs we have had for a long time will continue because they aren't likely to get hit with an upgrade / change or aren't broken in such a way as to benefit the players. (Airship dye and Guard Effects I am looking at you)

    I fully get that many of these things are hard to track down but that is also why I think they need to hire a bug hunter. **** I'd love the job, I'd have nothing but Hudson plastered all over my office space. That person could then have their solutions rolled into the next available update on an ongoing basis. This would probably be a "best case" scenario for us as far as wanting some quality of life patching. Especially considering they did start this sort of cycle quite a while ago and quickly abandoned it. My assumption there is that it had a pronounced negative impact on the bottom line because I cannot fathom that they simply didn't care / like fixing stuff.

    Last edited by Riddle_of_Steel; 03-31-2017 at 10:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    DDO was my MMO of choice because it didn't require a lot of mindless grind back in the day. Now it's my MMO of choice due to inertia and apathy.
    How to Provide Actionable Feedback

  5. #5
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    NO!

    If the goal is to improve the stability and reduce the "issues" in the code base, fixing bugs throughout the code base will not result in a net reduction of issues. The bugs will move and multiply (fixing a bug in one place has the potential to introduce a new bug somewhere else). A more successful approach to reduce the issues would be to focus on an limited set of code (say Ranger enhancements) and overhaul the code for that area of functionality and test the living daylights out of it. (Trying to estimate how long it would take to run a full regression test of DDO with 100% coverage makes me snicker.)

    And remember:
    There are two ways to write error-free programs; only the third one works.
    - Alan Perlis, "Epigrams on Programming"
    The blinking Drooam "backpack" is NOT a party buff. But its fun to say it is.

  6. #6
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    in a better world where I still have hope for a better (less bug filled,more QAed) ddo I would sign the OP, but ...


    I think at some point in time somebody in marketing looked at the cold, hard numbers and had an ephiphany about the few whales paying a LOT: "those that are still around, no matter WHAT broken **** we throw at them, as long as it keeps em busy, they will stay and keep paying as they always have"

    about at the same time somebody in design also had an epiphany along the lines of "with the state of the code of 10 years of layers upon layers, and our limited ressources - no matter how hard we try, we will not EVER release an update without re-introducing old, or creating new bugs. unless we do like 1 update every 6 months and that's rly not possible. so why do we even try?!?"

    THEN, somehow, these 2 people met. on the office floor, in the parking lot, on the way to the toilet. maybe got stuck in a blizzard on the same bus, maybe an actuall official meeting, who knows. they talked, and they realized when you add things up and just stop giving a ****, suprisingly, the world keeps on turning as if nothing happened. and like, suddenly, this immense weight just vanished from their shoulders.

    and THEN they went and told others about what they had discovered. and it spread and spread and became a shared belief and eventually a sanctioned company policy:

    1. We love DDO.
    2. We love creating *great content*

    3. fine print: this also applies if **** is always broken on release. we will fix that SoonTM. MaybeTM.
    4. If some things seem uninspired to players, please consider perception is subjective, and see 1.& 2. of our policy.
    5. have a great day, and don't forget to redeem your freebie of the week.

    ...
    and this is one of the little stories I come up with when people ask me why I don't buy points anymore...


    edit
    disclaimer: I just binge watched some old series called "dead like me". those who have seen it may understand how my sarcasm level is still a notch or two up from looking at corporate office life at Happy Times. just keep smiling and may Murray rest in peace in a stable orbit ...
    Last edited by Eryhn; 03-31-2017 at 11:56 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by difasja View Post
    Four major issues with the Ranger.
    1. +1 Competence bonus to critical damage multiplier broken for tempest (core enhancement)
    2. Two tier 5 tempest enhancements bugged, only work if you hit when activating them
    3. Arcane archer shadow arrows +1 to critical damage multiplier broken
    3. Elven arcane archer tree is very buggy, multiple tier five enhancements don't work

    Yes I know there is no $$s in fixing a free class, but it's the one I like to play. Maybe I'm wrong but I wonder if there are not similar issues with other classes?
    For 3(4) which in tier 5 elven AA dont work? They all seem to work for me as stated including a little extra from final strike.

  8. #8
    Community Member difasja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeleron View Post
    For 3(4) which in tier 5 elven AA dont work? They all seem to work for me as stated including a little extra from final strike.
    It is the Elven AA tree that is bugged not the regular ranger AA tree except for the +1 competence bonus to critical threat multipler

  9. #9
    Community Member Gramh_the_Bard's Avatar
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    /Signed

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by difasja View Post
    2. Two tier 5 tempest enhancements bugged, only work if you hit when activating them
    That's not a bug. There's lots of clickie attacks that do extra stuff that you lose out on if your swing doesn't make contact. Ameliorating Strike, for example. It's part of the design.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by difasja View Post
    It is the Elven AA tree that is bugged not the regular ranger AA tree except for the +1 competence bonus to critical threat multipler
    I'm pretty sure I stated Elven AA...

  12. #12
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    Since I don't manage a MMO development company, I am not qualified to say whether this is feasible or not. I am willing to bet, however, that SSG has a better idea than we do of how many bugs there are and what they can afford to fix. I have also seen posts by devs stating that they sometimes will fix bugs on their own time. So I'm not going to sign the OP. SSG has every interest in seeing DDO continue to keep and attract players and are going to do the best they can to accomplish that goal.

  13. #13
    Community Member kanordog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle_of_Steel View Post
    The issue there is that without new content they don't have any additional revenue generation. I know that most of the posters here seem to assume the majority of the population is VIP but it most likely isn't. I know the hardcore 6-10 hour a day types are all mostly VIP but they are a very small portion of the player base.
    I put my VIP and all other purchases on hold on mine and my wife's account due to bugs and we will stay f2p until a few bugs won't be fixed.
    People buy things and when they can not use them as they expected they will become disappointed and a disappointed customer is not a returning customer...
    I like new content but game bugs can make them much less enjoyable.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by difasja View Post
    It will probably go no where but I'd like to make a pitch to take one update cycle and use it just to fix known issues. I think that in the long run that would generate more revenue for SSGs as it would, I think, stem the slow bleed away of players who leave in frustration that they can not play the game as intended or have their builds undermined by issues that make playing a build too difficult to bother with. I like new content as much as the next person, but as a VIP, I'd much rather have a whole **** pot full of issues cleared up and wait a couple of months on content. I don't know know how SSGs feels about this, I'd love to see someone from SSG respond to this note. But if you agree with me please reply with a YES and maybe we can convince them to give this a try. Cheers!
    I'd come back and play again if they would expand the entry into the game, instead of pushing further into the endgame junk. More low level quests and more variations on quest paths to TR level would do it for me.

    I don't care much about the bugs, but I understand why if someone is paying, they would be upset they aren't getting the product they are paying for. A "known issue" should take priority over any new content as far as I'm concerned.

    Last time I had an issue with a purchase (maybe 2-3 years ago under turbine), they basically gave me the big FU, so I stopped spending money and playing the game, even though I love it. I would still spend money if they had some big point sales (like 4x bonus), but that's about it. Every customer that hasn't played in xmonths or xyears should get a coupon good for a nice bonus to come back.
    Last edited by angryskins; 04-02-2017 at 02:52 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by difasja View Post
    Four major issues with the Ranger.
    1. +1 Competence bonus to critical damage multiplier broken for tempest (core enhancement)
    2. Two tier 5 tempest enhancements bugged, only work if you hit when activating them
    3. Arcane archer shadow arrows +1 to critical damage multiplier broken
    3. Elven arcane archer tree is very buggy, multiple tier five enhancements don't work

    Yes I know there is no $$s in fixing a free class, but it's the one I like to play. Maybe I'm wrong but I wonder if there are not similar issues with other classes?
    You have a few minor issues with 3 out of 24 Enhancement trees and you'd like everybody to miss out on new content until those 3 Enhancement trees are fixed?
    Here's an idea: why not try playing a different class if it bugs you so much?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by difasja View Post
    It will probably go no where but I'd like to make a pitch to take one update cycle and use it just to fix known issues. I think that in the long run that would generate more revenue for SSGs as it would, I think, stem the slow bleed away of players who leave in frustration that they can not play the game as intended or have their builds undermined by issues that make playing a build too difficult to bother with. I like new content as much as the next person, but as a VIP, I'd much rather have a whole **** pot full of issues cleared up and wait a couple of months on content. I don't know know how SSGs feels about this, I'd love to see someone from SSG respond to this note. But if you agree with me please reply with a YES and maybe we can convince them to give this a try. Cheers!
    I agree and +1 rep to you. I've been playing more than half a decade and it's poor quality not lack of content that keeps my credit card in my wallet these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Games which not only allow, but embrace players playing differently in their own game space, succeed far more often, as well as succeed in far higher measurable degree, than those which force players into playing a specific way.

  17. #17
    Community Member Armatone's Avatar
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    Default Simple Solution...

    Interns.

    I am sure there are devs amongst us that would LOVE to give a hand.

  18. #18
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanordog View Post
    I put my VIP and all other purchases on hold on mine and my wife's account due to bugs and we will stay f2p until a few bugs won't be fixed.
    People buy things and when they can not use them as they expected they will become disappointed and a disappointed customer is not a returning customer...
    I like new content but game bugs can make them much less enjoyable.
    You are not alone. Finding placeholder art on my newly purchased Warlock class was the last straw for me. These little things add up to create a bad experience. We still have invisible weapons and string table errors after all these years? Iconics still have no pic on the lfm which is only exacerbated by the ghost lfms and the need to click the "who" tab every time I log in. If they are too greedy to spend an afternoon fixing some long standing issues, SSG does not deserve my money. I already get taken advantage of by every other company I deal with.

    To those making excuses and saying it's not profitable to fix bugs try to imagine the unplayable mess this game would be in if bugs were never fixed.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  19. #19
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armatone View Post
    Interns.

    I am sure there are devs amongst us that would LOVE to give a hand.
    *in my best possible Princess Leia voice* Save us Lynnabel, you're our only hope!

    Stoner81.

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