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Thread: fear reapers

  1. #21
    Community Member Powerhungry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rienuaa View Post
    It can't possibly be that this mob was specifically designed to also hit hires that park at the entrance and provide worry-free healing... right? Almost as if the devs specifically designed this to, perhaps, counter the exact style of cheesy gameplay you rely on?

    But it can't be, right? It must be because that when they designed something like this, they were simply unaware.
    I park a hire at the entrance because the AI is specifically designed to target healers - leaving it at the door is (supposed) to keep it out of danger. Note this 'anywhere in the dungeon' damage would apply to other players as well. How fun would it be if you were in one part of a dungeon and started taking an unstoppable DoT because of someone on the other side of the dungeon activated a fear reaper? And if they die, the reaper stays alive while you continue to take a stacking DoT. Poor game mechanic.
    Beholders induce fear
    Fear reapers induce frustration and quitting
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  2. #22
    Community Member Rienuaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerhungry View Post
    I park a hire at the entrance because the AI is specifically designed to target healers - leaving it at the door is (supposed) to keep it out of danger. Note this 'anywhere in the dungeon' damage would apply to other players as well. How fun would it be if you were in one part of a dungeon and started taking an unstoppable DoT because of someone on the other side of the dungeon activated a fear reaper? And if they die, the reaper stays alive while you continue to take a stacking DoT. Poor game mechanic.
    Beholders induce fear
    Fear reapers induce frustration and quitting
    Let me try my post again.

    Parking a hire is a crutch you rely on. Fear Reapers were probably made to target your specific strategy that you and many players use to walk through quests they would otherwise be unable to solo.
    Real human, ddo fanboy of the highest order.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rienuaa View Post
    It can't possibly be that this mob was specifically designed to also hit hires that park at the entrance and provide worry-free healing... right? Almost as if the devs specifically designed this to, perhaps, counter the exact style of cheesy gameplay you rely on?

    But it can't be, right? It must be because that when they designed something like this, they were simply unaware.
    I hadn't considered that this might be a design goal of fear reapers, but if so: well done. It fixes the easy solution of set a hire at the entrance and you can always call it for a raise.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rienuaa View Post
    Let me try my post again.

    Parking a hire is a crutch you rely on. Fear Reapers were probably made to target your specific strategy that you and many players use to walk through quests they would otherwise be unable to solo.
    Oh I see now.

    "Reaper - The DM wants to troll you."

  5. #25
    Community Member Powerhungry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rienuaa View Post
    Let me try my post again.

    Parking a hire is a crutch you rely on. Fear Reapers were probably made to target your specific strategy that you and many players use to walk through quests they would otherwise be unable to solo.
    So code reaper as a raid- no hires then.
    Allows for larger groups since reaper is supposed to promote grouping.
    Still didn't address the 'joy' of a stacking DoT when someone across the map activates a fear reaper (and happens to get killed by it).
    No level 3 hire can raise
    It would be rare for a level 3 character to be able to scroll raise or use DD scrolls to get back to the shrine
    (Combat): You are hit by your knockdown.

  6. #26
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerhungry View Post
    So code reaper as a raid- no hires then.
    Allows for larger groups since reaper is supposed to promote grouping.
    Still didn't address the 'joy' of a stacking DoT when someone across the map activates a fear reaper (and happens to get killed by it).
    No level 3 hire can raise
    It would be rare for a level 3 character to be able to scroll raise or use DD scrolls to get back to the shrine
    Raise dead scrolls are ML7. Even if you had a trillion UMD at lvl 3, you can't use them.

  7. #27
    Executive Producer Severlin's Avatar
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    First, Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you.

    Fear Reapers specifically challenge the knowledge and ability of a party to stay together and control their agro. And yes, the side effect of damaging parked characters is intentional. If the problem with Fear Reapers for you is that someone across the map is getting damaged, or that someone has unintentionally drawn the ire of one because they forged ahead when they shouldn't have then the pain the players feel from that is part of the design.

    Don't get me wrong - we want to fix situations where Fear Reapers can spawn places that a group cannot get to at all. Knowing, however, all the ins and outs of how creatures can detect characters and where dungeons can potentially spawn Reapers to destroy you is part of the challenge. If your difficulty is that people across the map are being punished by decisions of other party members who are forging ahead without knowing the content, or how and where a Fear Reaper might detect a party prematurely, then that is part of the design.

    Sev~

  8. #28
    Community Member MistaMagic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    First, Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you.

    Fear Reapers specifically challenge the knowledge and ability of a party to stay together and control their agro. And yes, the side effect of damaging parked characters is intentional. If the problem with Fear Reapers for you is that someone across the map is getting damaged, or that someone has unintentionally drawn the ire of one because they forged ahead when they shouldn't have then the pain the players feel from that is part of the design.

    Don't get me wrong - we want to fix situations where Fear Reapers can spawn places that a group cannot get to at all. Knowing, however, all the ins and outs of how creatures can detect characters and where dungeons can potentially spawn Reapers to destroy you is part of the challenge. If your difficulty is that people across the map are being punished by decisions of other party members who are forging ahead without knowing the content, or how and where a Fear Reaper might detect a party prematurely, then that is part of the design.

    Sev~
    Well Said. Maybe people now will not think that Reaper is the new Elite and learn to play it right instead of just looking at the 120%xp
    Ozzgood 45, 48, 24, 39, 110. Ozzbad 39, 42, 17, 37, 86. Ozzugly 45, 48, 21, 36, 119. EvilOzz 40, 48, 12, 39, 115. Ozzistheworst 38, 38, 15, 6, 58. and Alts on Khyber
    Past Lives: Heroic, Epic, Iconic, Racial., Reaper Points,
    Started Playing DDO In February 2010

  9. #29
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    First, Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you.
    No, you are not. Otherwise I can't explain the existance of R1-R3 zerg mode.

    Reaper is a grind mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you. Sev~
    Thank you for the cool quote for my signature.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    First, Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you.

    Fear Reapers specifically challenge the knowledge and ability of a party to stay together and control their agro. And yes, the side effect of damaging parked characters is intentional. If the problem with Fear Reapers for you is that someone across the map is getting damaged, or that someone has unintentionally drawn the ire of one because they forged ahead when they shouldn't have then the pain the players feel from that is part of the design.

    Don't get me wrong - we want to fix situations where Fear Reapers can spawn places that a group cannot get to at all. Knowing, however, all the ins and outs of how creatures can detect characters and where dungeons can potentially spawn Reapers to destroy you is part of the challenge. If your difficulty is that people across the map are being punished by decisions of other party members who are forging ahead without knowing the content, or how and where a Fear Reaper might detect a party prematurely, then that is part of the design.

    Sev~

    Ahem. Well.

    First, I have not yet ever died from a fear reaper because the party was too spread out. I have died several times and seen complete wipes because a fear reaper was not accessible. Complete failures in a group of seasoned well equipped veterans, because the fear reaper wasn't accessible.

    Now whether or not Reaper is 'fair' isn't important so long as it is "optional". Reaper is "optional" only so long as the power creep folded into Reaper will not be incorporated into the design of new content. Are you willing to publicly commit to that?


    Plus what Wizza said ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    No, you are not. Otherwise I can't explain the existance of R1-R3 zerg mode.

    Reaper is a grind mode.

  12. #32
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    First, Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you.

    Fear Reapers specifically challenge the knowledge and ability of a party to stay together and control their agro. And yes, the side effect of damaging parked characters is intentional. If the problem with Fear Reapers for you is that someone across the map is getting damaged, or that someone has unintentionally drawn the ire of one because they forged ahead when they shouldn't have then the pain the players feel from that is part of the design.

    Don't get me wrong - we want to fix situations where Fear Reapers can spawn places that a group cannot get to at all. Knowing, however, all the ins and outs of how creatures can detect characters and where dungeons can potentially spawn Reapers to destroy you is part of the challenge. If your difficulty is that people across the map are being punished by decisions of other party members who are forging ahead without knowing the content, or how and where a Fear Reaper might detect a party prematurely, then that is part of the design.

    Sev~
    I LOVE this aspect of reaper. Played reaper all this weekend, and totally enjoyed how the party had to work and stay together. Really feels like old times again.
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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  13. #33
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    No, you are not. Otherwise I can't explain the existance of R1-R3 zerg mode.
    R1-R3 is for people who have played less than you. This should be REALLY easy for you to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  14. #34
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    First, Reaper mode isn't really intended to be fair. We are trying to kill you.

    Fear Reapers specifically challenge the knowledge and ability of a party to stay together and control their agro. And yes, the side effect of damaging parked characters is intentional. If the problem with Fear Reapers for you is that someone across the map is getting damaged, or that someone has unintentionally drawn the ire of one because they forged ahead when they shouldn't have then the pain the players feel from that is part of the design.

    Don't get me wrong - we want to fix situations where Fear Reapers can spawn places that a group cannot get to at all. Knowing, however, all the ins and outs of how creatures can detect characters and where dungeons can potentially spawn Reapers to destroy you is part of the challenge. If your difficulty is that people across the map are being punished by decisions of other party members who are forging ahead without knowing the content, or how and where a Fear Reaper might detect a party prematurely, then that is part of the design.

    Sev~
    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Fear Reapers specifically challenge the knowledge and ability of a party to stay together and control their agro. And yes, the side effect of damaging parked characters is intentional. If the problem with Fear Reapers for you is that someone across the map is getting damaged, or that someone has unintentionally drawn the ire of one because they forged ahead when they shouldn't have then the pain the players feel from that is part of the design.
    Sev~
    That's awesome! I love that this is intentional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyed-Pyper View Post
    First, I have not yet ever died from a fear reaper because the party was too spread out.
    I have. When reaper first came out, I ran in a waterworks PUG on R2. The people were treating it like the normal "solo zerg in a party" like everyone does on elite. Somebody up ahead triggered a fear reaper, and all of us started taking damage. It caused us to wipe. I haven't had a death from one since people learned to stick together, though.

    I agree that they should have made it harder. It's disappointing that people have completed R10 already.

  16. #36
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    R1-R3 is for people who have played less than you. This should be REALLY easy for you to understand.
    Look at the definition that Severlin gave of Reaper: "The DM is trying to kill you". This doesn't happen in R1 and R3. Let's not pretend that people are looking for the challenge (even if they say so themselves) when we all run that they run R1-R3 at best in heroic for easy XP.

    Call Reaper mode for what it is, a grind, and I'm absolutely fine with it.

    Also, for people who have played less than me (???) there is Casual/Normal/Hard/Elite.
    Last edited by Wizza; 03-20-2017 at 01:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I don't think you get a choice.. you are Rys's minion..

  17. #37
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Look at the definition that Severlin gave of Reaper: "The DM is trying to kill you". This doesn't happen in R1 and R3. Let's not pretend that people are looking for the challenge (even if they say so themselves) when we all run that they run R1-R3 at best in heroic for easy XP.
    I TRed this weekend, and R1 was a challenge for me. And a ton of fun.

    Now I have very little gear for the low levels. In the past, I would pretty much run with half my slots empty until level 5, when I would put on Chrono gear, and some random gear (and a Carnifex). Then I would use that until 11-12 when I would slot all my Shroud gear.

    Elite was that easy from 1-11 for me.

    But R1 is dangerous when a reaper shows up, or one gets surrounded (is there scaling in reaper? Seems like there are more mobs running reaper than elite). Plus, to max out reaper experience, I'm running quests two levels below where I used to. So even when I geared up a little better, it was much tougher than in the past.

    In groups, we ran R3, and there were plenty of deaths. Deaths DO happen on R1-R3. So you're wrong. It wasn't a cakewalk snooze-fest like running elite on a TR was in the past. I had to actually pay attention, and work to get a heal to a teammate before they died.

    So yes, R1-R3 serves a purpose. If people like you, who can handle higher reaper levels on a TR, choose to play R1-R3 snooze-fest instead, that's 100% on you, and not the devs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  18. #38
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I TRed this weekend, and R1 was a challenge for me. And a ton of fun.

    Now I have very little gear for the low levels. In the past, I would pretty much run with half my slots empty until level 5, when I would put on Chrono gear, and some random gear (and a Carnifex). Then I would use that until 11-12 when I would slot all my Shroud gear.

    Elite was that easy from 1-11 for me.

    But R1 is dangerous when a reaper shows up, or one gets surrounded (is there scaling in reaper? Seems like there are more mobs running reaper than elite). Plus, to max out reaper experience, I'm running quests two levels below where I used to. So even when I geared up a little better, it was much tougher than in the past.

    In groups, we ran R3, and there were plenty of deaths. Deaths DO happen on R1-R3. So you're wrong. It wasn't a cakewalk snooze-fest like running elite on a TR was in the past. I had to actually pay attention, and work to get a heal to a teammate before they died.

    So yes, R1-R3 serves a purpose. If people like you, who can handle higher reaper levels on a TR, choose to play R1-R3 snooze-fest instead, that's 100% on you, and not the devs.
    i've died and wiped in R 1-2. i'm not ashamed to admit it. i know others who have died as well so people can't tell me that no deaths can't happen. we had 2 people back out after a r1 run of grim and barret because they felt like they werent ready at the time. i wished people would stop thinking they speak for everyone when it comes to certain things. when i say that it applies to people who do run reaper 1-3 not those that don't run it.

    anyways he said it best above. for some players its a struggle while others will play the higher reaper. its the same as norm to elite. people will play what they enjoy or can handle. i know i wont take certain toons into some things because i am not going to be a burden on others. i will play what my toon can handle.

  19. #39
    Community Member zehnvhex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    we want to fix situations where Fear Reapers can spawn places that a group cannot get to at all.
    "We want to."

    This is going to across snarky but when it comes to you guys and bug fixing individual items you guys <string table error; tabldDID [0x00000000] token [0x00000000]>

    Honestly you guys missed a real opportunity here to make reapers something actually feared rather then "Oh hey it spawned in a wall" and then if you're in epic you ignore it or heroic you wipe/reset because the damage apparently doesn't scale. For the first three weeks I couldn't even tell you what the other three reapers did because they're always held/dead by the time I even notice we got one.

    I mean 10 points for good intentions on what you guys tried to do but minus several million for good execution.

    Armchair developer for a second here (obviously I don't have access to your back end so I can't see how possible it would be to do something like this but...)

    1) Reapers spawn randomly. You get a zone message or something when one spawns.

    2) Reaper lasts for 10 seconds. They cannot be attacked, CC'd or otherwise interact with.

    3) Anybody that dies due to a reaper ability spawns another reaper.

    Fear Reaper: Players must 'face their fear'. Anybody not facing the direction of the reaper when it expires dies. Players immune to fear effects are instead stunned for 10 seconds if they fail to face the fear reaper.

    Carnage Reaper: Players must not delight in carnage. Anybody who lands a killing blow while the carnage reaper is watching will die after it expires. (yes, this is not fair to anybody using DOTS. Tough.)

    Famine Reaper: Players must be able to withstand hard times. Anybody below 60% health when the famine reaper expires will die.

    Plague Reaper: Players must be in good health. One person at random is blinded, cursed, diseased and poisoned. All four need to be removed before time expires or they die.

    Now granted, I came up with that while enjoying a delicious burger from the Dug Out(tm) so I may not have fully thought it out. All I can really do is offer up what ~I~ would have liked to see and the current iteration is just 4 universal mobs that are pretty easy to deal with (provided they don't spawn up a ladder because then I have a 50/50 shot of climbing up it to get to them).
    Last edited by zehnvhex; 03-20-2017 at 01:51 PM.
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  20. #40
    Community Member Powerhungry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post

    Fear Reaper: Players must 'face their fear'. Anybody not facing the direction of the reaper when it expires dies. Players immune to fear effects are instead stunned for 10 seconds if they fail to face the fear reaper.

    Carnage Reaper: Players must not delight in carnage. Anybody who lands a killing blow while the carnage reaper is watching will die after it expires. (yes, this is not fair to anybody using DOTS. Tough.)

    Famine Reaper: Players must be able to withstand hard times. Anybody below 60% health when the famine reaper expires will die.

    Plague Reaper: Players must be in good health. One person at random is blinded, cursed, diseased and poisoned. All four need to be removed before time expires or they die.

    Now granted, I came up with that while enjoying a delicious burger from the Dug Out(tm) so I may not have fully thought it out. All I can really do is offer up what ~I~ would have liked to see and the current iteration is just 4 universal mobs that are pretty easy to deal with (provided they don't spawn up a ladder because then I have a 50/50 shot of climbing up it to get to them).
    So in lower level content where raise dead isn't available? and not all quests have shrines that can be accessed from everywhere.
    Four debuffs to remove - at lower levels the remove spells can't be cast so potions- which have a timer between uses...
    You said you weren't sure if this was thought out?- no it wasn't. Congratulations, you've been promoted to a dev
    (Combat): You are hit by your knockdown.

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