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  1. #41
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldramar View Post
    This may be a stupid question but how does this build get Bastard Sword proficiency at level 4? I see that masters touch would do it but the way the text is written it seems like there is a proficiency I am missing?
    Bastard Sword Proficiency is a viable bonus feat for an Artificer at level 4.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldramar View Post
    This may be a stupid question but how does this build get Bastard Sword proficiency at level 4? I see that masters touch would do it but the way the text is written it seems like there is a proficiency I am missing?
    Hmmm. I didn't notice this back when you first asked the question, but I am actually wondering why use a feat on either b-sword or d-axe when the build isn't using the THF line? It's using SWF, which IMO would be better off either taking Khopesh feat or saving the feat for something else and using a scimitar. Am I missing something?
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

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  3. #43
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Hmmm. I didn't notice this back when you first asked the question, but I am actually wondering why use a feat on either b-sword or d-axe when the build isn't using the THF line? It's using SWF, which IMO would be better off either taking Khopesh feat or saving the feat for something else and using a scimitar. Am I missing something?
    Your morning coffee? (been there )

    Both Bastard Sword and Dwaxe are Single-handed weapons, so THF is not approp. SWF or TWF would be the call for either of those, but w/ a Rune Arm that leaves just SWF.

  4. #44
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Your morning coffee? (been there )

    Both Bastard Sword and Dwaxe are Single-handed weapons, so THF is not approp. SWF or TWF would be the call for either of those, but w/ a Rune Arm that leaves just SWF.
    Both of those weapons are known as "hand-and-a-half" weapons, and when used with either nothing in the off hand, or with a rune arm or shield, they do indeed take advantage of THF feats.

    When used with SWF they are inferior to khopesh and scimitar due to the critical threat range. The advantage to them is when used in combination with THF feats.

    Also note that a G-sword and G-axe are superior to b-sword and d-axe with respect to THF if (IF) they have nothing in the off-hand. It is the combination of THF and a shield (or rune arm) that gives these hand-and-a-half weapons their uniqueness.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 11-03-2018 at 05:09 PM.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  5. #45
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Both of those weapons ... when used with ... a rune arm ..., they do indeed take advantage of THF feats.

    When used with SWF they are inferior to khopesh and scimitar due to the critical threat range. The advantage to them is when used in combination with THF feats.
    All that is true, but the OP isn't concerned (primarily) w/ procs or glancing blows, he's concerned w/ DPS, which is what the SWF line gives. And rightly so - it's a clear DPS boost vs. the same # of THF feats.*

    Two-Hand Fighting is a 50% increase in Glancing Blow damage (from base 20% to 30%), while Single Weapon Fighting is a flat 10% in Attack Speed. Also, the Melee Power boost from 2HF only comes in when actually using a 2-hand weapon, which Bastard Sword is not.


    And the Improved versions are parallel.

    (* I suppose there is some situation where a large group of opponents would make the AOE from THF w/ a Bastard Sword superior, but that'd be an exception.)

    (If there was room for both... but there isn't.)

    So I think your question might be less "Why no THF?" and more "Why no khopesh/scimi?" At least, that's a better question imo. And that comes down to these enhancements boosting Bastard Sword.

    Tier 1-IV of that enhancement line gives BS (or Dwaxe) a total of +4/+4 w/ an 8% chance to proc (and I don't know if that last stacks w/ 2HF). But the Tier V adds +1 Crit Range, making the Bastard Swords THE weapon of choice for a melee Battle Engineer.
    Last edited by C-Dog; 11-03-2018 at 06:42 PM.

  6. #46
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    All that is true, but the OP isn't concerned (primarily) w/ procs or glancing blows, he's concerned w/ DPS, which is what the SWF line gives. And rightly so - it's a clear DPS boost vs. the same # of THF feats.*
    Only for single target DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Also, the Melee Power boost from 2HF only comes in when actually using a 2-hand weapon, which Bastard Sword is not.
    That is incorrect. The melee power from the THF feats applies to bastard swords and d-axes when used as I described above. The wiki article does not address it one way or the other, but I can prove it in game easily. Right now I have a b-sword equipped and a rune arm, and the THF feat buff is showing that is adding the Combat Style bonus to Melee Power.



    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    (* I suppose there is some situation where a large group of opponents would make the AOE from THF w/ a Bastard Sword superior, but that'd be an exception.)
    Actually it would be the case almost every time you are fighting more than 1 or 2 mobs at a time.


    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    So I think your question might be less "Why no THF?" and more "Why no khopesh/scimi?"
    Actually my question was neither, it was "why use a feat on either b-sword or d-axe when the build isn't using the THF line". IMO the feat would be better spent on a Khopesh if you want to use SWF.


    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Tier 1-IV of that enhancement line gives BS (or Dwaxe) a total of +4/+4 w/ an 8% chance to proc (and I don't know if that last stacks w/ 2HF).
    Actually, it 100% does stack with the glancing blows of the THF line. I'll give you the +4 hit and damage (a good point), if you think that's worth 8APs. I am not a DPS mathematician so I can't say.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    But the Tier V adds +1 Crit Range, making the Bastard Swords THE weapon of choice for a melee Battle Engineer.
    And the Khopesh has an inherent +1 crit multiplier over and above the b-sword without spending any APs to get it (and you don't have to wait until L12 to get it). The scimitar has a +1 crit range over the B-sword and you don't need to spend APs or a feat.

    So while the B-sword may be the best weapon for a melee arti, I would argue that it is true only when it used with the synergy of THF feat. I tend to think (and again, I am no math dps expert) that the OP would see better results with SWF if he uses a khopesh. Then the only argument would be whether one wants to do better single target dps, or better multi target dps. Personally, I think for a solo build the THF is better, while someone who mostly runs with groups the SWF would be better (to take down bosses, champions, etc).
    Last edited by Fedora1; 11-04-2018 at 08:31 AM.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  7. #47
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strimtom View Post
    Strinati's Hand Cannon: The best rune arm in the game
    I have had this little bugger in my bank for a long time, but just now pulled it after TRing into an arti. This thing is most definitely a hand cannon!
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  8. #48
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    So while the B-sword may be the best weapon for a melee arti, I would argue that it is true only when it used with the synergy of THF feat. I tend to think (and again, I am no math dps expert) that the OP would see better results with SWF if he uses a khopesh. Then the only argument would be whether one wants to do better single target dps, or better multi target dps. Personally, I think for a solo build the THF is better, while someone who mostly runs with groups the SWF would be better (to take down bosses, champions, etc).
    SWF wins pretty handily over THF for a D-Axe/B-Sword arti. 30% attack speed + 1.5 stat + 19-20 Vorpal. You can still take Perfect Two Handed Fighting for an extra 10% glancing blow damage and 10% proc rate. You still get the 20% base while standing still or cleaving (though you don't get it while moving like THF line does). In addition Rune Arm imbues apply to your glancing blows no matter what, allowing for them to double apply. So if you're cleaving trash and standing still on bosses, it is no contest in favor of SWF as you're getting more half of what you'd already get from the THF line on top of the SWF line. If you are not cleaving, and/or circle-strafe bosses, it become closer, but I'd still favor SWF heavily.

    The question really comes, does the glancing blow damage + higher base die outweigh superior crit profiles? (Remember that all +W attacks are magnified by superior weapon die)

    Dwarven Axe - 1d10 with 20/x3 crit profile. End game crit profile of 18/x4 and 19-20/x8 (+1 overwhelm, +1 set bonus (if using Legendary Stormreach Guardian's Axe), +1 LD Devastate, +1 chop).
    - End Game Options:
    --- Legendary Stormreach Guardian's Axe
    - Leveling Options: (nothing real sub level 10, and every weapon option has Morninglord/Mourn at 10 and GS at 12, so will not list)
    --- Stormreach Guardian's Axe (14): Set bonus with Quarantine (a good CC rune arm) that gives +1 19-20 crit multiplier
    --- Sever (14): 1.5(d14) weapon that is magnified by cleaves and Renegade attacks. Axe of Famine can also do this with a 1(2d8) base.
    --- Drow Weapon Master (21): Drow weapons were not even handed on crit profile expansion, and D-Axe got the good end of it. Rolling a 16-20/x4 with 19-20/x7 is nothing to sniff at, and would use this to 29.

    Bastard Sword - 1d10 with 19-20/x2 crit profile. End game crit profile of 16-18/x3 and 19-20/x5.
    - End Game Options:
    --- Soul's Sorrow
    - Leveling Options: (leveling options were kind to B-swords)
    --- Cutting Currency (6): Metalline weapon with a built in CC.
    --- Spinal Tap (7): Improved crit multiplier *and* base die. Unfortunately stat damage abilities are still broken in Reaper (still reduced to 0) preventing Wounding effects being as good as they could be.
    --- Twinblade (14): Lawful/Chaotic bypass, 1.5[2d8] base, and double slots. Very strong option
    --- Drow Weapon Master (21): 17-20/x2 profile, with ultimately a 14-18/x3 with 19-20/x5.
    --- Nightmare (23): Improved base die, vamp, neg leveling, and (rare) instakill chance makes this a very nice weapon
    --- Epic Spinal Tap (26): Spinal Tap, but with 5[d11] instead of 1.5 and stronger con damage procs.

    Ultimately, between the two, I'd say D-Axe is stronger end-game due to the combo with Quarantine and B-Sword is stronger for leveling due to the better weapon options and better unsupported crit profile.

    When it comes to standard single handed options, Khopesh would start off stronger, but as it is incompatible with Artificer adjustments, would fall short at 12+. Khopesh also doesn't have "special" weapons that Arti can combo into the profile, such as Spinal Tap. So with the exception of super-early levels, there is no reason to go Khopesh on an Arti IMO, and even then there comes the question if the difficulty really demands a temporary feat or if you would not just roll a two-hander with early cleaves.

    Scimitar has some amazing weapon options, particularly at end game, though again without getting modifications from Arti, falls short quickly. I think it is better to explore some other options.

    Morningstar - 1d8 with 20/x2 crit profile. This combined with no unique end game options really cripple this weapon, but if you have some racial past lives and Aasimar Scourge, there are some leveling options that make this interesting. I'd take this weapon options 1-20, but probably not beyond.
    --- Star of Irian (8): This is an 18-20/x2 crit profile. This would be made x3 by Aasimar Scourge, beating most options you can get at this level and until you can get Imp Crit. Even at 12, it would still be 16-20/x3, matching the crit profile you'd have with Spinal Tap.
    --- Coronation (14): Unsure if this is an 18-20/x3 or a 19-20/x3. Aasimar would make this x4, and at 20 you could have a 15(16)-18/x5 and 19-20/x7
    --- Braisingstar (25): You lose some crit profile, but gain in base damage.

    Warhammer - 1d8 with 20/x3 crit profile. No Aasimar Scourge bonus, but already having a higher multiplier makes up for it. Add in lots of interesting options, and this is a solid weapon choice. End game crit profile of 17-18/x4 and 19-20/x6 (or x7 with Guardian Hammer).
    - End Game Options:
    --- Legendary Stormreach Guardian's Hammer
    --- Legendary Reflection of Whelm (a straight upgrade of Echo of Whelm. Though would like to know if the guardbreak effect is on Vorpal or on every hit)
    - Leveling Options:
    --- Nightforge Hammer (8): increased crit multiplier, +5 enhancement, addy, and slot. What's not to like?
    --- Echo of Whelm (9): At early levels, you're within the limited range of the 19-20 extra multiplier, though you'll be trading +2 enhancement and +.5[W] and addy for an extra slot and procs.
    --- Stormreach Guardian's Hammer (14): Set bonus puts this weapon in a good position
    --- The Banhammer (15): 4d6 bane damage and an instakill proc for all enemy types. Fun weapon.
    --- Earthshatter Warhammer (16): Another fun weapon, particularly against gargoyles and earth eles. The proc chance is high enough to keep this weapon as a swap against these enemy types.
    --- Drow Weapon Master (21): Another great profile weapon, which is expanded upon with LD's pulverizer bonus to Bludgeon weapons.
    --- Mornh, Hammer of the Mountains (23): Improved weapon die *and* improved profile. 3[d10] with a potential 15-18/x4 and 19-20/x6. Easy run to end-game.

    As you can see, you can get superior crit profiles to off-weapon options, so I see no reason to look to those. Even at end-game, I don't think a 5-10% crit chance outweighs losing half your multipliers. In all cases, though, a melee arty is still a B-class DPS. TWF combined with Ethereal is a huge DPS boost, and Arti doesn't have much to favor TWF. However with CC, party buffs, heals, and trapping, they still bring a good bit to the table. Rune arms are quite strong in Heroics as well, so Arti is one of the better leveling classes, especially post pass. I'll be doing more Arti lives myself.
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  9. #49
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    You can still take Perfect Two Handed Fighting for an extra 10% glancing blow damage and 10% proc rate.
    I did forget about this, but also want to point out that the OP did not choose/list this as one of the feats to take in epics. So something else will need to be swapped out if following the build guide. I find it odd that you can take PTHF w/o having the THF feats but you can't take PSWF w/o the SWF feats.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    So if you're cleaving trash and standing still on bosses, it is no contest in favor of SWF as you're getting more half of what you'd already get from the THF line on top of the SWF line. If you are not cleaving, and/or circle-strafe bosses, it become closer, but I'd still favor SWF heavily.
    This build only has one melee cleave enhancement and no cleave feats. No cleaves in LD either.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    Dwarven Axe - 1d10 with 20/x3 crit profile. End game crit profile of 18/x4 and 19-20/x8 (+1 overwhelm, +1 set bonus (if using Legendary Stormreach Guardian's Axe), +1 LD Devastate, +1 chop).
    The OP didn't take Power Attack or Cleave line, so some of the LD line is somewhat marginalized. And these same options you listed can be taken if one chooses THF rather than SWF. As can the end-game weapons you listed.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    though again without getting modifications from Arti, falls short quickly.
    Are you talking about the +3 hit and damage? Because again, the khopesh and scimmie start out of the gate with better crit range or multiplier over Bsword and Daxe. I do agree that weapon choices with Khopesh and scimmie are probably not as good at end game as bsword and daxe. Outside of TF I'm not sure I could name a really good one.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  10. #50
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I did forget about this, but also want to point out that the OP did not choose/list this as one of the feats to take in epics. So something else will need to be swapped out if following the build guide. I find it odd that you can take PTHF w/o having the THF feats but you can't take PSWF w/o the SWF feats.

    This build only has one melee cleave enhancement and no cleave feats. No cleaves in LD either.
    I honestly didn't analyze nor cover what Strimtom did carefully as I would do many things differently, so I looked more at his gear than his build. That said, you can quite easily fit PA and the cleave line without changing much on the feats:

    - THF is taken at 20, which you can't do, so this feat can be replaced.
    - Precision would be replaced with PA
    - Slashing Focus can be replaced
    - Maximize can be dropped. It doesn't help Rune Arms, and you are not that deeply invested in spell DPS. You won't be kiting through BBs as a melee, Tact Det and BoGW are more for CC, and most other spells will be for bypasses and buffs.

    I'd invest in PA and Cleaves early on as they're extremely powerful early game and always useful against hoards throughout the game. Cleaves may be a DPS loss on single targets, but easily win the second you add more targets. Plus they play well with LD. Arti can afford them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    The OP didn't take Power Attack or Cleave line, so some of the LD line is somewhat marginalized. And these same options you listed can be taken if one chooses THF rather than SWF. As can the end-game weapons you listed.
    Yes, THF and SWF do not preclude cleaves or PA, but that doesn't negate my argument that SWF is the stronger of the two. My current opinion is that TWF is blown ahead by the power of Ethereal, SWF is actually in a pretty good place but is completely overshadowed by the TWF concern, and THF is behind. However THF has an elephant in the room of Barbarian: Their recent buff of cooldown reductions gives them a ton of moves that play very well with Two-Handed weapon base damages very well, and they can bring THF into competitive numbers. Any changes to THF would need to take into consideration the balance of +X[W] attacks. This is also where B-Sword and D-Axe can make up a lot of crit-profile ground as RM has multiple +3[W] attacks in its arsenal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Are you talking about the +3 hit and damage? Because again, the khopesh and scimmie start out of the gate with better crit range or multiplier over Bsword and Daxe. I do agree that weapon choices with Khopesh and scimmie are probably not as good at end game as bsword and daxe. Outside of TF I'm not sure I could name a really good one.
    I'm talking about crit modifiers along with that damage. Articier crit modifiers are limited to their weapon types, so weapons with better base modifiers have their gaps closed a bit. Throw in additional modifiers like War Hammer and D-Axe can get along with unique weapons, and that gap can be completely closed or even surpassed... all on top of the better base damages the other weapons can get. Scimi/Khopesh only wins at 1-7, and the question I was asking is if it is even worth it at those levels. It is a completely different story in the hands of other classes which can use their crit modifiers on these better base crit weapons, but that is neither here nor there.
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  11. #51
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    IMy current opinion is that TWF is blown ahead by the power of Ethereal,
    Sorry, what is this ETHEREAL you are talking about? All I saw on wiki were the items with ethereal (negate the 50% miss chance for incorp).
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Sorry, what is this ETHEREAL you are talking about? All I saw on wiki were the items with ethereal (negate the 50% miss chance for incorp).
    Scion of the Ethereal PLane

    Permanent Blur
    +1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 3 points of Hide you have
    +4 to all Skills
    Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect

    Also isn't it still 1 SA for every 2 points of hide and amplified by 150% melee power?

  13. #53
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soleran100 View Post
    Scion of the Ethereal PLane

    Permanent Blur
    +1 point of Sneak Attack damage for every 3 points of Hide you have
    +4 to all Skills
    Permanent Invisibility Guard, as per the item effect

    Also isn't it still 1 SA for every 2 points of hide and amplified by 150% melee power?
    Thank you.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strimtom View Post
    Skills:
    • Disable Device - Max this or you won't make any friends. This also helps the DCs of traps you set ROFL.
    • Search - You need to find traps. Unfortunately, it doesn't make /LFH or /LFB any better.
    • Spot - Great ability for people who don't have the location of every trap in the game memorized. If you know where all the traps are, disregard this skill.
    • Balance - Max this or you can't take single weapon fighting and you need that for super fighting robot action
    • Use Magic Device - This will let you use raise dead scrolls which will make you lots of friends!
    • Spellcraft – Gives you rad spell damage. Think of this like your gun powerups.
    • Repair – Think of increasing your repair skill like getting more Sub Tanks. The more sub tanks you have, more back up healing.
    • Swim – Robots are amazing at swimming, there are so many underwater Megaman X levels.


    You'll have extra skillpoints. Spend them wherever, it doesn't matter too much.
    - Following this at 28pt I was unable to max all of the above, how should I reprioritize? (I was 4 skill points short so I'm assuming either half and half on two skills or give one up entirely) Also, is it possible to do this and keep open lock maxxed as well?

    - Furthermore, I was uncertain precisely which 5 spells were... good to start with.

    - Repair, if not WF, is used to 'heal' your pets and turrets? Does it impact your dps using this build(not sure if anything rust-based for spell dmg here - this looks super fun, and I'd love to give it a whirl as I can't stand playing ranged in this game)

    - Finally, while I'm fairly confident this build is probably optimal with a WF, I'd like to see a non-WF variant: anyone good with theorycraft, or perhaps Strimtrom himself, care to outline a good 30pt drow or 32pt half elf(really thought this with fighter dilly might be good) build variant of this, maintaining pure arti?
    Last edited by adrikthorsen; 01-01-2019 at 03:57 AM.

  15. #55
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    Also, is it possible to do this and keep open lock maxxed as well?
    This doesn't exactly answer your question, but well over 90% of the locks in this game can be picked without having to max out OL skill. The main thing is to get a good (for the level) item with +x to your OL skill that you can "swap on" when you need to unlock something.

    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    Finally, while I'm fairly confident this build is probably optimal with a WF, I'd like to see a non-WF variant: anyone good with theorycraft, or perhaps Strimtrom himself, care to outline a good 30pt drow or 32pt half elf(really thought this with fighter dilly might be good) build variant of this, maintaining pure arti?
    A dwarf fighter has good synergy with this build for free dwarven axe proficiency and racial bonuses to same. Self heals become the main issue though (as with any fleshie arti build).
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  16. #56
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    - Following this at 28pt I was unable to max all of the above, how should I reprioritize? (I was 4 skill points short so I'm assuming either half and half on two skills or give one up entirely) Also, is it possible to do this and keep open lock maxxed as well?
    Not a tough question - you keep the skills that keep you alive. Top of that list...

    • Trapping - Spot, Search, DD.
    • UMD - RD, Res, Heal scrolls
    • Balance - Need 7 for SWF chain, might as well go all in against dogs and other trippers.
    • Spellcraft - best defense is a strong offense - boost your spells and runearm.


    That leaves...

    - Repair - If you're not Warforged, MUCH less important (depending on the build). But tbd...
    - Swim - seriously? You plannin' to solo The Crucible on this build?
    ...and...
    + Open Lock. Half-ranks, you'll be more than fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by adrikthorsen View Post
    - Furthermore, I was uncertain precisely which 5 spells were... good to start with.
    Most(!) of the spells can be bought as scrolls from vendors, and then learned later. So the only ones you want are the rare ones, that can't be bought - and Conjure Bolts.

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Rare_Scroll...ificer_Scrolls

    1. Conjure Bolts - mandatory. First, you are going to use it NOW. More, if you learn it from a scroll, it has a bug (never makes more than +1 bolts).
    2. Curative Admixture: Cure Light Wounds - rare
    3. Enchant Armor - rare
    4. Enchant Weapons - rare
    5. _your choice_ *

    (* There is one more rare spell, Resistance - but it's never used, so why worry about it? For completeness' sake, perhaps.)
    The last doesn't matter b/c you can buy the scroll(s) for whatever you want. So... what's useful? What are you actually going to slot?

    In the running are Ablative Armor, Resist Energy, Master's Touch (if you're going there for early levels), Repair (to fix your dog - it's a free slot!), or (if he was a caster) Static Shock (but he's not a caster, so "no").

    - Repair, if not WF, is used to 'heal' your pets and turrets?
    Not Turrets. No effect on damage except Rust spells vs. constructs. But you aren't a caster.

    Finally, while I'm fairly confident this build is probably optimal with a WF, I'd like to see a non-WF variant: anyone good with theorycraft, or perhaps Strimtrom himself, care to outline a good 30pt drow or 32pt half elf(really thought this with fighter dilly might be good) build variant of this, maintaining pure arti?
    K, first - you're 100% right, WG is optimal, no "probably" about it. Self Healing, racial tree - it all synergizes so nicely.

    As a close second - a "30 point drow" is a 2nd life build - a "32 point Helf" says 1st life (but w/ 32 points) - is that right, choice between 2 diff character slots, one TR'd into Drow or the other a new HElf build? (Why not a 34 pt Helf???).

    That aside, between those two, I'd go Drow, hands down. That's in part b/c I don't play w/ HElfs very often, but also Drow feeds Int, and Int is the combat stat here.


    (@ OP - Edit - Got a sample build for you, but don't want to derail this thread w/ that - it's diff enough that I'd consider it OT. Link here.)
    Last edited by C-Dog; 01-01-2019 at 01:34 PM.

  17. #57
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    I think I'm gonna build one of these,
    I'm running a wf artificer right now
    Doing ranged, wanted to see fusillade
    Also wanted to see rm, but need adamantine body
    And I splashed 2 rogue for evasion this life
    So I'm gonna work up a battle fist version,
    And maybe farm for some rune arms and docents
    And go bastard sword
    I've got lot of good bastard swords
    Also maybe splash 3 pally?
    It's just for heroic racial
    Vishantii (the bird man)
    Kil (heroic and epic completionist)

    Sarlona, Heart of Wisdom

  18. #58
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    Also maybe splash 3 pally?
    It's just for heroic racial
    Not sure how much the saves would need help (esp w/ a multiple TR), but if going melee, you might want to consider Fighter 3, for Stalwart Defender? In today's game, melee needs all the defense they can find. :/

    And you'll find something to do w/ the +2 Feats.

  19. #59
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Not sure how much the saves would need help (esp w/ a multiple TR), but if going melee, you might want to consider Fighter 3, for Stalwart Defender? In today's game, melee needs all the defense they can find. :/

    And you'll find something to do w/ the +2 Feats.
    Ya /3 pally was my initial thought when going melee
    But ap is too tight on this build, so I couldn't fit itin til 16-18
    So I don't think the 25 prr/mrr is worth it that late?
    I wouldn't go fighter, since I don't cleave on swf
    But could only manage a 11 cha from wf for pally,
    So fater review I'm gonna build it pure
    Idk I just did ranged wf arti with evasion,
    And it was too sweet
    But I want to see adamantine body and battlefist,
    So it doesn't really matter
    With 57 reaper points,
    Anything I build is god mode in r1


    Thx strimtom,
    For the write up!
    Vishantii (the bird man)
    Kil (heroic and epic completionist)

    Sarlona, Heart of Wisdom

  20. #60
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    I recently returned from a 1 year or so break from the game.

    I did a variation of this build for like 3 or 4 lives.

    I really had a fun time with it! I am pretty sure I am going to either TR back into this or maybe a WF EK WIZ

    Anyway let me post Strimtom's feat list to 20 and I will show you where I go different. Because I plan to use Warhammers

    1. Single Weapon Fighting
    3. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven War Axe or Bastard Sword (Both are fine)
    4. Adamantine Plating (Arti Feat)
    6. Precision (Or competionist if you have it)
    8. Quicken Spell (Arti Feat)
    9. Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12. Improved Critical Slashing (Arti Feat), Insightful Reflexes (Precision If you took completionist)
    15. Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    16. Weapon Focus: Slashing (Arti Feat)
    18. Maximize (Insightful Reflexes if you took completionist)
    20. Two Handed Fighting (Arti Feat)

    1. Single Weapon Fighting
    3. Completionist
    4. Adamantine Plating (Arti Feat)
    6. Knight's Training for the Warhammer bonus (does this stack with Improved Crit Bludgeon?)
    8. Maximize (Arti Feat) (mainly for Potion toss spells)
    9. Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12. Improved Critical Bludgeoning (Arti Feat)
    12. Insightful Reflexes
    15. Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    16. Empower (Arti Feat)
    18. Precision
    20. Quicken Spell (Arti Feat)

    I basically swapped Bastard Sword/Dwarven Axe for Warhammers and I used that gained feat on Knight's Training.

    I moved Quicken down on my list because I think I read somewhere that the incoming damage vs concentration check equation was changed.

    I will be going T5 in Renegade Mastermaker because I don't have the past lives or gear that Strimtom has, so I forego DPS for a little more health.

    Here is a rough draft of my AP

    41 AP into RM or BE depending on more tank or more damage

    12 AP into Harper basically want KTA and Strategic Combat 1 and 2

    This leaves 27 natural AP left and I have 3 more freed up from Racial AP TRs. So 31 left../



    The big benchmarks I see for the WF tree are these:

    4 AP: this gets me More Fortification and +40 Repair Amp (I usually get this done as soon as reaper becomes a thing)

    11 AP: Same as earlier and +15 Melee power

    17 AP: Same as Earlier and + 20 PRR and +8 AC and Weapon Attachment


    My main playstyle is cast spells and Rune Charges to soften targets and hit them with a Warhammer
    Last edited by Bacab; 08-22-2019 at 07:29 PM. Reason: wasnt done posting
    "Hireling" and "Hjealer"
    Member of THACO on Ghallanda

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