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  1. #221
    Community Member Nonesuch2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I just wanted everyone to know that I'm not going to be photoshopping anymore ideas for DDO. I thought I might inspire the devs with some creative and attractive armor/robes/weapons etc but the overwhelming feedback I've had from Cordovan (mostly on twitch) and another dev without going into PM details which isn't allowed is that they can't legally use any of my ideas, even with written consent apparently. So my whole purpose for doing it is entirely negated. And worse might possibly prevent them from doing anything even close to my suggestions.

    Thank you to everyone that glanced at this thread and gave me encouragement.
    Aelonwy,

    I just wanted to take a moment to say thanks for the initiative & all the hard work that you put into this thread. Even if the ideas go unused by your intended target audience, I know that myself and many others have really enjoyed seeing some of these ideas come to life. There's some satisfaction to be had from that, despite the sour news on the other front, so don't think that no good has come from doing this.

    And since this thread has been a winner from start to finish, and these works are definitely a positive influence on the community, I would like to nominate this thread for the Hall of Fame.

    It definitely has my vote.

    Thanks
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  2. #222
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I just wanted everyone to know that I'm not going to be photoshopping anymore ideas for DDO. I thought I might inspire the devs with some creative and attractive armor/robes/weapons etc but the overwhelming feedback I've had from Cordovan (mostly on twitch) and another dev without going into PM details which isn't allowed is that they can't legally use any of my ideas, even with written consent apparently. So my whole purpose for doing it is entirely negated. And worse might possibly prevent them from doing anything even close to my suggestions.

    Thank you to everyone that glanced at this thread and gave me encouragement.
    They can not legally use them? I find it weird

    Sad to read this. Your ideas are great, you have artistic talent.

    I think SSG would sell many more cosmetics if they created a cosmetic wardrobe like we have with pets and it exists in other games (eg, GW2) It was inventory problems which caused me to limit the amount of cosmetics I bought, and I know more people in my case.

    One of the main problems of this game is that it has very impractical things. The storage system is especially horrible.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  3. #223
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    I'm willing to bet if they hired you as a concept artist they could legally use your ideas.
    Then again I don't know the extent of your pms.
    My understanding from posting things on forums is that they can become something like free/public domain, ie, they wouldn't be able to copy right them and use them/sell them.

    The same thing typically applies to rping on forums, a person couldn't just take all of the writing and turn it into a book even with all of the players permissions.

  4. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I just wanted everyone to know that I'm not going to be photoshopping anymore ideas for DDO. I thought I might inspire the devs with some creative and attractive armor/robes/weapons etc but the overwhelming feedback I've had from Cordovan (mostly on twitch) and another dev without going into PM details which isn't allowed is that they can't legally use any of my ideas, even with written consent apparently. So my whole purpose for doing it is entirely negated. And worse might possibly prevent them from doing anything even close to my suggestions.

    Thank you to everyone that glanced at this thread and gave me encouragement.
    Take comfort in the fact that so many people have enjoyed your designs. Simply because they did not make it into the game does not mean a waste of time. Many (including myself) now look more closely at the game's aesthetics, take pride in their toon's suits and pause here and there to smell the visual flowers.
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  5. #225
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonesuch2008 View Post
    And since this thread has been a winner from start to finish, and these works are definitely a positive influence on the community, I would like to nominate this thread for the Hall of Fame.

    It definitely has my vote.
    Thanks
    Thank you, that's sweet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    They can not legally use them? I find it weird
    I'm not fluent in legalese, but I agree it seems weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    I think SSG would sell many more cosmetics if they created a cosmetic wardrobe like we have with pets and it exists in other games (eg, GW2).
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by calouscaine View Post
    I'm willing to bet if they hired you as a concept artist they could legally use your ideas.
    Then again I don't know the extent of your pms.
    My understanding from posting things on forums is that they can become something like free/public domain, ie, they wouldn't be able to copy right them and use them/sell them.

    The same thing typically applies to rping on forums, a person couldn't just take all of the writing and turn it into a book even with all of the players permissions.
    I had no idea that posting them on the forum instantly made them free/public domain. Is that any forum? Is that why they cannot even make their own version of what I've created?


    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Take comfort in the fact that so many people have enjoyed your designs. Simply because they did not make it into the game does not mean a waste of time. Many (including myself) now look more closely at the game's aesthetics, take pride in their toon's suits and pause here and there to smell the visual flowers.
    It is very encouraging that so many enjoyed my aesthetics, and imagination.

    Most of my information that they cannot use my photoshopped images even with permission, because I'd be totally willing to give them free permission to use the work I've done so far comes from this Weekly Wednesday Livestream (August 2, 2017):



    At time marks: 39:58 and 55:17.

    The only PMs I have on the subject say much the same thing without being any more specific.
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  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post

    I had no idea that posting them on the forum instantly made them free/public domain. Is that any forum? Is that why they cannot even make their own version of what I've created?
    Since the forums are basically a public domain in most cases the answer is most likely yes. Unless ssg is bogged down some how with licensing issues for some unknown reason which restricts their cosmetic development, which seems unlikely. One can honestly only speculate on their licensing unless one of them chimes in and enlightens us.
    But, on the topic of posting in a public domain forum. Basically if you post something in a public domain forum it becomes free reign for anyone to use so long as they don't try to sell it. This is why publishers ask you and make sure you haven't posted any of your books(or parts of them) on a public domain forum, because it disallows them the ability to place it under their copy right legally.
    If you want your designs to be considered more over, ie if you are making more of them, might be best to pm them to the devs or some such and reach an agreement with ssg for rights to the designs. Still, I imagine you would need more than mixing and matching and re-color/texturing them, as there might be issues with that as well so far as rights/licensing is concerned.
    Still, keep on trucking, you do amazing work and it would be a shame if it never makes it into the game due to a small set back.

    He is correct that it's a bit complicated though. A contract for the rights to use images/designs/ideas/writing/etc is needed by a corporation in order to use it in a game/book/quest/etc. They would basically have to draw up a contract and pay you for the work in exchange to legally use what you make. Even if you say they can use it, with out the contract and a binding agreement they could still be liable for you to sue them if they used it with out one.
    Last edited by calouscaine; 09-13-2017 at 05:16 AM.

  7. #227
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    Aelonwy, it is unfortunate they you'll be no longer "photoshopping" your cosmetic ideas and posting them on the DDO forums. :-(

    I presume Cordovan was mostly referring to Intellectual Property. Those original designs you made are still effectively copyright of "Aelonwy" even though they were posted on the DDO public forum.

    Copyright is the automatic right of the creator from the point that first 'recorded' the work in a tangible manner. SSG could not directly copy and use your designs and patterns but I'm certain they could build upon some of those ideas or themes. For example; if you created a flying Creature Companion as a Golden Spellbook with a fancy rune on its cover, they couldn't also make a similar companion with that design if it too closely resembled your design.

    Intellectual Property: can have more than one owner, belong to people or businesses and be sold or transferred but it requires legal processes to transfer it. Since those images appeared on the DDO public forums. They [SSG] may prefer not to risk using those ideas; should anyone else make counter-claims, etc. If you had passed the images to SSG incognito and not posted them in public possibly they'd have easier options but would still have to follow similar legal rules.

    I remember, when I co-authored a Technical book that was published in 2011, with several other authors some whom had authored books before. (We offered our work free of charge under understanding the book wouldn't be sold for profit). The publisher was using their: Program Director, Cover Designer, Editor and Technical Editor, i.e. their usual employed publishing team. However, to get around things; so they did NOT have to pay the [authors], the publisher used a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 license. :-)
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 09-13-2017 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Grammar.

  8. #228
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonesuch2008 View Post
    I would like to nominate this thread for the Hall of Fame.
    Agreed.
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  9. #229
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    Cordovan's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Hall of Fame.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  10. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Welcome to the Hall of Fame.
    Congratz Aelonwy!
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  11. #231
    Community Member Niminae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I just wanted everyone to know that I'm not going to be photoshopping anymore ideas for DDO. I thought I might inspire the devs with some creative and attractive armor/robes/weapons etc but the overwhelming feedback I've had from Cordovan (mostly on twitch) and another dev without going into PM details which isn't allowed is that they can't legally use any of my ideas, even with written consent apparently. So my whole purpose for doing it is entirely negated. And worse might possibly prevent them from doing anything even close to my suggestions.

    Thank you to everyone that glanced at this thread and gave me encouragement.
    Well, damn. That is a bit of a crappy situation, isn't it?

    I for one loved your Ioun stone eyes, and would have loved to see them in the game. I guess lawyers ruin everything, but I really have a hard time accepting that any fan created content cannot become a part of the game, even with written consent, given that Steelstar just recently asked for fan submissions for an Iconic racial path and said straight up that it might become a part of the game if there was a player submission that the devs liked. And there was no mention of consent being asked for nor required to use any of the submissions in any way that SSG decided to use them. At all.

    So, what gives here? This seems to be entirely contradictory information being passed along by different people within the same organization.

  12. #232
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Welcome to the Hall of Fame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Congratz Aelonwy!
    Thanks guys, special thanks to hubby, he says he bugged Cordovan politely on twitch.
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  13. #233
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    So, what gives here? This seems to be entirely contradictory information being passed along by different people within the same organization.
    I've no idea Nim. Maybe because mine were picture files? Who knows, laws rarely make sense.
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  14. #234
    Community Member ZeeDatRogue's Avatar
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    Default Suggestion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I've no idea Nim. Maybe because mine were picture files? Who knows, laws rarely make sense.
    Perhaps if you signed over all IP rights to SSG in exchange for an official acknowledgement from them (that your designs are in use). This would enable you to build up a portfolio (if you didn't have one before), that if you wanted to enter work as a graphic design artist.

    as for posting things on a public domain - no posting them doesn't enter into "free access for all". I have done a lot of photography work, and I post my images on various facebook groups with an appropriate copyright sign. One day, I came across an early piece of my photos that had my name removed but someone elses emblazoned in the background of the image in faint writing, effectively stealing my copyright of it. I contacted the person who tried to claim that they had sent me a message asking "if it was okay for them to do that" (w t f?) and "i didn't reply, so they went ahead to do it". They hadn't tried to contact me, obviously. They just thought they could do that, but foolishly did it on a forum where I was a member of (as in it was the same forum, I had posted them previously (how stupid can people go!)).

    Threat of a lawsuit from my attorney had those photos removed immediately, with an apologetic letter from them. My attorney took that apology and re-affirmed if another of my photos were stolen in that manner again, by them, then he would squeeze them until they screamed (so, I have a pitbull for an attorney, lol).

    But the point is, is if you name/identify each image, and sign over intellectual property rights to SSG in return for official acknowledgement as an SSG concept/graphic artist (with the understanding that the images you designed will feature as part of your portfolio; remember - you are not garnering monies from the images).

    Whether or not you use the images for a portfolio is by-the-by, but it would allow you to contribute and be officially recognized. For SSG's side of things, they don't have to pay you a salary; they get the work from you (and any you then subsequently sign over), which can be then used within the SSG games (whether DDO or LoTR).
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  15. #235
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeDatRogue View Post
    Perhaps if you signed over all IP rights to SSG in exchange for an official acknowledgement from them (that your designs are in use). This would enable you to build up a portfolio (if you didn't have one before), that if you wanted to enter work as a graphic design artist.
    I've already sent at least two PMs to Cordovan indicating that I'd be willing to sign over rights to them if they were at all interested. So far all indications are that either they are not interested enough to have a legal document drawn up or that there is some other tangle beyond merely signing a contract/legal document.
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  16. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I just wanted everyone to know that I'm not going to be photoshopping anymore ideas for DDO. I thought I might inspire the devs with some creative and attractive armor/robes/weapons etc but the overwhelming feedback I've had from Cordovan (mostly on twitch) and another dev without going into PM details which isn't allowed is that they can't legally use any of my ideas, even with written consent apparently. So my whole purpose for doing it is entirely negated. And worse might possibly prevent them from doing anything even close to my suggestions.

    Thank you to everyone that glanced at this thread and gave me encouragement.
    Too sad to read that, I was thinking of new ideas when I saw your post, but after reading that I think dont post it,.. thanks for your effort in the thread, But it is something that does not surprise me, since it is getting poorer the service they give to armor cosmetics or pets, for example the little effort in making companions, (see the companion rock, the dumbest thing I've seen in this game but hey.. look how jump.. lol) .. and then simply the same armor for this halloween but hey ... it's red ... come on!! ..
    I have always received the same answer as soon as I have put some idea about cosmetics or I have asked in the stream, .. there are no plans to do it, the software or engine does not allow it etc ... no, no and more times not..... I do not know who will be in charge of doing this kind of thing, but the quality after Motu is very poor.
    If their problems, and I understand is a 11 years old game, but either they invest in new technologies or they will have fewer players for the poor quality they offer .. and fewer players means less income .. It's just a matter of time like it happened with Neverwinter that another game of the franchise gonna be online, soon will happen with Lotro, watching games like Shadows of Mordor, or son the new series of Lord of the rings that another company offers an online game with a good quality... in short, and I hope Im wrong, I see this company a short life in the future..

  17. #237
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Default Can't help myself... I have a very visual imagination.

    Some ideas for hats that could be adjusted for Dragonborn:









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  18. #238
    Community Member Garbudo's Avatar
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    Just an idea, it would be really nice if we could buy a custom cosmetic armor made by our selves. I am thinking character creation screen style but with armors, this could be done with the sliders character creation uses, this would give us a crazy amount of customized armors, and building it on the character your playing so no mistakes. I could even see a 2495 point price for bundled armor, head, and cloak custom kit. Pricing seems reasonable to me anyways due the time it would take developing said system. Would also say just a single custom item 1495 points. Obviously some things would be excluded from this raid stuff mabar stuff so on
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  19. #239
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Default Some ideas for next year





    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

  20. #240
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Default Another Possibility...

    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

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