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  1. #1
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    Default Cannith Crafting - Runearms and Challenge Gear

    Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

    Challenge Gear:

    The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

    This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


    Runearms:

    A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

    The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


    Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.

  2. #2
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Overall - sounds good.

    Cannith Challenge Gear:
    1. Tier 3 - since loosing the crafting (and only gaining a slot) - loose the BtC and make it BtA.
    2. Add Frozen Docent, and level 24 / 28 versions.
    3. (Near Future) expand the Challenges to CR45


    RuneArms:
    Sounds Good.
    1. Will the Int be fixed on that one Runearm at the same time?
    2. Could and will all non-raid runearms that are currently BtC become Bta?



    Keep up the solid hard work!

  3. #3
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    Just spit-balling, but couldn't you preemptively fill the 3rd slot with a dummy effect to reign in power?

    Seems like you could also fill the prefix or suffix slot with a dummy effect, either preemptively when the item is spawned (in which case these items would only be capable of gaining either a prefix OR suffix effect, with the choice being predetermined in the item's blueprint by yourselves), or else as a side-effect of crafting an effect onto them (i.e, when you craft a prefix onto the item, at the same time the suffix is filled with a dummy effect, or vice versa).

  4. #4
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    So masterful craft all your runearms and challenge items and call it a day

    Sounds fine. How about automatically converting all said craftable items into masterful crafted items with -2 level requirements, and stripping everything else away?
    Last edited by Tilomere; 08-13-2016 at 06:00 PM.

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  6. #6
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Not happy about losing the crafting ability on the challenge items.

    Stoner81.

  7. #7
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    What if, for challenge items and rune arms both, you simply changed the existing craftable effect to the effect that allows for the addition of the 'extra' slot with the use of the mark of house C. Don't add a prefix slot and don't add a suffix slot, just the bonus effect slot.

    Either way the power of the effects definitively needs to be re scaled and the T3 should be made BTA, especially if you go with your current proposition.

    Also any news on what is happening with clickys and crafting? will they be added or not?

  8. #8
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Also is this going to effect all festival items? I can't recall if items from say Crystal Cove are craftable (I think they are)?

    Stoner81.

  9. #9
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Also is this going to effect all festival items? I can't recall if items from say Crystal Cove are craftable (I think they are)?

    Stoner81.
    They are not. Only Cannith Challenge Gear can be upgraded to allow for crafting.

  10. #10
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    The challenge gear, as is and as proposed, gives me little incentive to run the challenges - They could use an upgrade and now seems like a good time to do it. It seems to me that when you completely upgrade a challenge item it should be more powerful than a crafted item or random loot.

    I think Artficers could use some love and making runearms more powerful could be a quick and easy way to do that. Even if they are crazy overpowered compared to other weapons, since they can only be used by one class would that be so bad? Might even get some folks to spend more TP buying Artificer.

    In fact, why remove the current crafting possibilities on either of these types of items at all? {check out the "Kundarak crafting" thread}. Just add the ability to craft 1-3 more effects with new Cannith crafting and call it good.
    Last edited by wonko_the_sane; 08-14-2016 at 12:43 AM. Reason: edited for hubris.

  11. #11
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    That makes the tier 3 challenge gear a lot less useful. Some of the items are only worth making because of the crafting options (eg adding Holy to the Elemental Greataxe of Fire (which has Metalline)).

    At least make them BtA.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby88888 View Post
    What if, for challenge items and rune arms both, you simply changed the existing craftable effect to the effect that allows for the addition of the 'extra' slot with the use of the mark of house C. Don't add a prefix slot and don't add a suffix slot, just the bonus effect slot.

    Agree with this.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWorries View Post
    Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

    Challenge Gear:

    The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

    This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.
    What about this:
    You allow the challenge gear to be crafted on and you use the craftable level instead of the Minimum Level to determine the power of the crafted effects.

    To do that, you could change the design of the shards to read the adjusted minimum level instead of the actual minimum level of the item. Then code the craftable +3 or +1 to create an "adjusted minimum level" property of ML3 or ML1. The minimum level of the item would still be the initial level of the item for the purposes of checking whether a character can wear it, but the scaling effects would read the adjusted level to decide the power.

    Doing that would also enable you to create future crafting systems or named items that have different Minimum Levels and Power Levels. For example you could introduce a raid crafting shard that would add a +1 or +2 to an item's adjusted level and thus increasing the power of its effects.

    The outcome for challenge gear would be that we are now able to add 2 non-scaling effects (since there can't be a bonus effect below level 10) or 2 very weak scaling effects (just like it is now with challenge gear).


    Runearms:

    A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

    The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


    Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.
    Same proposal goes for runearms. And the list of effects for runearms has always been that of a trinket slot. Why change that now?
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  14. #14
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    aw, but I like customizing my rune arms with more options... or cannith gear for that matter, I got way more leeway via crafting than I do with augments, augments have a very restrictive list of stuff, and crafting had so many fun little effects I could use.

    why can't crafting named item NOT have 3 slots?

    for rune arms because it count as a trinket? should you make trinket not able to use masterful on them? how about instead of having rune arm count as a trinket for option purposes, it count as its own unique item, rune arms? and make masterful not being applicable to rune arms?

    there are not THAT many cannith gear, they are unique, no way at all to restrict what can be crafted on a named gear?

    what will happen to my current crafted ones, tier 2 and tier 3? will I be able to stone change it? even if my item end up weaker I don't like using a non existant system, I would rather downgrade it to the new system than redoing it from scratch,

    maybe a deconstruction option for cannith gear to give back ingredients?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWorries View Post
    Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.


    Runearms:

    A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

    The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


    Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.
    I dont' think I like this. Not to hammer this into the ground but using Toven's Hammer as an example. Fully upgraded (but not crafted) has
    Min level 19 (kept)
    Electrical Storm (is this the "spell itself"?)
    Transform Kinetic
    Insightful Int +2
    Max charge tier V (kept)
    Lightning Strike
    Potency
    Exceptional Fortification
    Rune arm imbue Electrical IV (kept)

    To key Toven's Hammer for crafting and have it stripped of what makes it Toven's Hammer is (in my opinion) not a good thing.
    (Not that it would be a good thing to be able to double or triple the DPS (for example) of Toven's Hammer by crafting it.)

    I would almost rather the crafting slots on the named rune arms be replaced with augment slots and new rune arm blanks be created that were intended to be crafted to make them useful.
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  16. #16
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoWorries View Post
    Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

    Challenge Gear:

    The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

    This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


    Runearms:

    A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

    The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


    Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.
    I am not sure I understand what you are saying about the runearms. Could we have a specific example? Are you saying that for example if I craft on toven's hammer I would loose the potency but retain the lightning strike and torc effect?

    It's very hard to comment without specific examples. But please do not give us examples of done things, give us an example so we can offer feedback on it.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    I am not sure I understand what you are saying about the runearms. Could we have a specific example? Are you saying that for example if I craft on toven's hammer I would loose the potency but retain the lightning strike and torc effect?

    It's very hard to comment without specific examples. But please do not give us examples of done things, give us an example so we can offer feedback on it.
    I suspect they'll remove any effect that crafting could possibly create - so for Tovens hammer the +2 int, potency and exceptional fortification would go but the other unique abilities that can't be recreated with crafting would stay.

  18. #18
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    I'm okay with the way you're doing runearms BUT only if we get a list of the craftable runearms stating what effects would be kept and what would be lost so we can have a discussion about individual items if necessary. But given that we can replace what was lost with three bonuses of our choosing (limited by whatever bonuses you allow for runearms) I think in most cases it would be beneficial as stated; however we would need to have an idea of what bonuses you're allowing for runearms before we could really comment fully. I assume those runearms that inflict some kind of penalty would keep the penalty?

    As far as the challenge gear goes - I can understand the decision though also that folk would be unhappy about it - having exceptions to the rules means more complicated code and more chance for bugs, as well as issues about the power level. In addition to the slot (which I assume is additional given that some items already have one) I think a relook at the power level of the gear would probably be the best way to placate folk and its probably overdue particularly for the epic versions, as would the challenge gear in Eveningstar. That's true of a lot of old named gear when compared to more recently released items and the new random loot but that's for another thread.

    Just had a quick look at the list of named runearms - it would appear that only older heroic runearms have the option for crafting - more recent heroic and apparently all epic don't have the option at all as they have augment slots instead, so this doesn't effect all runearms.
    Last edited by CeltEireson; 08-14-2016 at 11:48 AM.

  19. #19
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltEireson View Post
    I suspect they'll remove any effect that crafting could possibly create - so for Tovens hammer the +2 int, potency and exceptional fortification would go but the other unique abilities that can't be recreated with crafting would stay.
    That sounds fine actually. It would give you the option of actually KEEPING it as is, or making it better. And truth be told, +2 int or +48 potency is nothing in today's world. Or for that matter, +6 spell critical on lucid dreams. But if they would loose the convert kinetic energy or the lightning strike that would be terrible.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    What would be the issues of having ALL named items applicable for the Mark of House Cannith to get the extra slot (not the Prefix Suffix) for a little customization, without loosing the basic intent of the named item

    This could then apply to Runearms, Cannith Challenge Gear, Crystal cove, etc. etc.

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