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  1. #41
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    would like some clarification on that Knight's Training Feat as I havent gotten around to test it yet:


    • Battle Axes critical threat range is increased by 1. Increased by 2 if you have slashing improved critical
    • Heavy Maces, Morning Stars & War Hammers critical threat range is increased by 1


    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    For the battle axe when the player has both knight's training and improved crit we will give an additional bonus to equalize it. [...]

    We're not inclined to do that with the blunts because of dreadnought.

    -T
    the bolded parts confuse me...

    do I read that right that basically for warhammers, the bonus from Knight's Training DOES NOT stack with Imp.Crit. BLudgeon? cause of LD shenanigans?


    the context of this question is a warforged 18wiz EK/2 arti renegade splash using https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Re...pion_set_items.

    so, if stars allign, get a lot of itemization synergies from the effects on that set for a forged,
    use that nice warhammer from the set, get the set bonus to crit multi on 19/20
    boost warhammer crit range by +1 with knights training
    stack imp crit bludgeon atop that

    BUT

    does it stack or not?

  2. #42
    Community Member Daahly's Avatar
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    Ended up with a more tanky version with traps, what are your thoughts ?

    DalyEKpalemaster
    18/1/1 Wizard/Barbarian/Rogue
    True Neutral Drow


    Level Order

    1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Wizard. . . . .11. Wizard. . . . .16. Wizard
    2. Barbarian . . . 7. Wizard. . . . .12. Wizard. . . . .17. Wizard
    3. Wizard . . . . .8. Wizard . . . . 13. Wizard . . . . 18. Wizard
    4. Wizard . . . . .9. Wizard . . . . 14. Wizard . . . . 19. Wizard
    5. Wizard . . . . 10. Wizard . . . . 15. Wizard . . . . 20. Wizard



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
    Strength. . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: INT
    Dexterity . . . 12. . . .+1. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 14. . . . . . . .12: INT
    Intelligence. . 20. . . . . . . .16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: INT
    Charisma. . . . 10. . . . . . . .24: INT
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT


    Skills
    . . . . . R .B. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W
    . . . . . 1 .2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Spellcr . 2 .½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 22½
    Concent . 2 .½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 21½
    Spot. . . 4 .1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 19
    Open Lo . 4 .1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 16½
    Search. . 4 .1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 14
    Disable . 4 .½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 13½
    Balance . 4 . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 13
    Listen. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Diplo . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Swim. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    UMD . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Heal. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .52 .9. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    .3. . . . : Shield Mastery
    .3 Wizard : Extend Spell
    .6. . . . : Spell Penetration
    .7 Wizard : Quicken Spell
    .9. . . . : Knight's Training
    12. . . . : Precision
    12 Wizard : Enlarge Spell
    15. . . . : Greater Spell Penetration
    17 Wizard : Heighten Spell
    18. . . . : Improved Shield Mastery
    21 Epic . :
    24 Epic . :
    26 Destiny:
    27 Epic . :
    28 Destiny:
    29 Destiny:
    30 Epic . :
    30 Legend :


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (40 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force, Subtle Force II
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III
      2. Improved Shield III, Mystic Wards I
      3. Eldritch Accuracy, Critical Mastery III, Intelligence
      4. Knight's Transformation, Shield Striking III, Force's Point, Intelligence
      5. Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III

    Pale Master (23 AP)
    • Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
      1. Deathless Vigor III, Negative Energy Conduit III
      2. Bone Armor III
      3. Cloak of Night III, Intelligence
      4. Intelligence

    Harper Agent (17 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Know the Angles III
      3. Versatile Adept II, Strategic Combat, Intelligence


    Maybe should drop Enlarge/Heighten for Spell focus Evocation.. need to test it a bit.
    The build is mostly into Melee with spells for AoE, slowing monsters, etc

    Am I missing something or it sounds good?





    Also like the multiplayer version of it : droping undead healing for Archmage.
    With hireling or players that heals you it looks way better than palemastering!
    Spaming Haste helps making new friends.

    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (40 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force, Subtle Force II
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III
      2. Improved Shield III, Mystic Wards I
      3. Eldritch Accuracy, Critical Mastery III, Intelligence
      4. Knight's Transformation, Shield Striking III, Force's Point, Intelligence
      5. Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III

    Archmage (22 AP)
    • Jump, Knock, Haste
      1. Energy of the Scholar I, Traditionalist Caster III
      2. Efficient Quicken III
      3. Spell Penetration II, Intelligence
      4. Intelligence

    Harper Agent (18 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Know the Angles III
      3. Versatile Adept III, Strategic Combat, Intelligence
    Last edited by Daahly; 04-23-2019 at 07:35 AM.

  3. #43
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryhn View Post
    do I read that right that basically for warhammers, the bonus from Knight's Training DOES NOT stack with Imp.Crit. BLudgeon? cause of LD shenanigans?
    No, it is saying that the bonus isn't doubled by Improved Critical for those blunt weapon types the way it is for battleaxes, because (in the devs' view) the bonus from Pulverizer makes up the difference. That bugs me because (A) it's like admitting that LD is the de facto ED for all melee builds (which, I mean, it is, but there ought to be more variety IMO, the devs shouldn't just be giving up on other EDs); and (B) battleaxes still benefit from Headman's Chop so why isn't that being nerfed?

    But anyway for a EK build like mine if running in LD the final crit profiles would be:
    • warhammer: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Knights Training -> 18-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-20/x4 T5 Eldritch Knight -> 16-18/x4 19-20/x6 Pulverizer+Overwhelming+Devastating Crit
    • battleaxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Knights Training -> 17-20/x3 IC:Slash-> 16-20/x4 T5 Eldritch Knight -> 16-18/x4 19-20/x7 Headmans Chop+Overwhelming+Devastating Crit


    Add any named weapon bonuses as appropriate. So battleaxes are better in late heroics and technically come out ahead in LD except there don't seem to be any epic named battleaxes on par with Whelm or Guardian's Hammer. Dusk is light-caster-oriented - which seems odd to me, why make a weapon which is so clearly aimed at a divine caster that's not any deity's weapon? - while Axe of Adaxus' extra crit multiplier bonus is great but it can't be Sentient'ed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daahly View Post
    Ended up with a more tanky version with traps, what are your thoughts ?
    Strongest S&B DPS options are Swashbucklers and Vanguards. And depending on who you ask, even pure Vanguards might not be worthwhile in the current meta anymore. So I am definitely not sold on the relatively modest shield bonuses in Eldritch Knight (+15% shield-bashing procs? really, that's it?) as being worth the twin hassles (i.e., lower melee DPS plus added ASF). It's not even like the Nature's Protector tree, which requires a shield equipped if you want Ursa's Protector bonuses. Here there seems to be literally no upside to S&B EK. But for a dissenting view you should check out Strimtom's EK thread.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  4. #44
    Community Member Daahly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Strongest S&B DPS options are Swashbucklers and Vanguards. And depending on who you ask, even pure Vanguards might not be worthwhile in the current meta anymore. So I am definitely not sold on the relatively modest shield bonuses in Eldritch Knight (+15% shield-bashing procs? really, that's it?) as being worth the twin hassles (i.e., lower melee DPS plus added ASF). It's not even like the Nature's Protector tree, which requires a shield equipped if you want Ursa's Protector bonuses. Here there seems to be literally no upside to S&B EK. But for a dissenting view you should check out Strimtom's EK thread.

    Ok thanks!
    Yes and the Shield Mastery feat himself is not giving amasing bonus..

    Let's stick with the SWF option finaly. For a first lifer (no Drow available yet) you think we can use Dwarf ?
    Here is what I'm thinkink of :

    AerologDalySWF
    18/1/1 Wizard/Barbarian/Rogue
    True Neutral Dwarf


    Level Order

    1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Wizard. . . . .11. Wizard. . . . .16. Wizard
    2. Barbarian . . . 7. Wizard. . . . .12. Wizard. . . . .17. Wizard
    3. Wizard . . . . .8. Wizard . . . . 13. Wizard . . . . 18. Wizard
    4. Wizard . . . . .9. Wizard . . . . 14. Wizard . . . . 19. Wizard
    5. Wizard . . . . 10. Wizard . . . . 15. Wizard . . . . 20. Wizard



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt . . Level Up
    . . . . . . . .---- . . --------
    Strength. . . . .8. . . .4: INT
    Dexterity . . . 10. . . .8: INT
    Constitution. . 18. . . 12: INT
    Intelligence. . 18. . . 16: INT
    Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: INT
    Charisma. . . . .6. . .



    Skills
    . . . . . R .B. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W. W
    . . . . . 1 .2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 2 .½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 20½
    Spellcr . 2 .½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 20½
    Spot. . . 4 .½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 16
    Open Lo . 4 .1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 14
    Search. . 4 .½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 13½
    Disable . 4 . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 13
    Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .10½
    Jump. . . 4 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
    Swim. . . 4 .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
    Listen. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    UMD . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Diplo . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Intim . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .48 .8. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
    .3. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
    .3 Wizard : Extend Spell
    .6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Slashing
    .7 Wizard : Spell Focus: Evocation
    .9. . . . : Knight's Training
    12. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    12 Wizard : Quicken Spell
    15. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    17 Wizard : Maximize Spell
    18. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (41 AP)
    • Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force, Subtle Force II
      1. Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III
      2. Improved Shield III, Spellpower Boost III
      3. Eldritch Accuracy, Synergetic Magic, Intelligence
      4. Knight's Transformation, Orb Saves III, Force's Point, Intelligence
      5. Improved Knight's Transformation, Knight's Striker, Force's Edge, Eldritch Tempest III

    Archmage (22 AP)
    • Invisibility, Blur, Displacement
      1. Energy of the Scholar I, Traditionalist Caster III
      2. Efficient Quicken III
      3. Spell Penetration II, Intelligence
      4. Intelligence

    Harper Agent (17 AP)
    • Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II
      1. Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
      2. Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
      3. Strategic Combat, Intelligence


    // Possible de trade Archmage for Palemaster if selfhealing necessary (and dodge from wraith form)


    Last question : do I really need UMD if I never use wands? lvling chars only lvl 20 for past lifes, don't feel the wands necessary, but maybe i'm missing a point here.
    Last edited by Daahly; 04-24-2019 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #45
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    perfect summary of relevant aspects
    see, thats why I asked that in your thread, thx a bunch

    edit: also, it bugs me too that due to pulverizer issues they didnt do something which it sounded like they would otherwise have done. but im not fully mortified as I was running under the worst case scenario that unless battleaxe it basically makes Knight's training a utility feat replacing/unifying various imp crit feats. it DOES add +1 though as you kindly confirmed so it IS a nice improvement. specially with that renegade set ...

    edit2:
    Quote Originally Posted by Daahly View Post
    Last question : do I really need UMD if I never use wands? lvling chars only lvl 20 for past lifes, don't feel the wands necessary, but maybe i'm missing a point here.
    off all the wondrous uses UMD has wands might very well be the least important in the list, though, they are what you can use first on lower heroic levels and they DO sure help. never underestimate how happy you can make fellow r1 puggers with indescriminate use of cure serious wand at low lvls...

    UMD is good for raise dead, ressurect, restore, greater restore, full heal scrolls mainly when on an arcane, while vice versa on a toon not having access to arcane spells allows you to scroll things like greater heroism, fire shield hot/cold, stoneskin, blur, displace.

    there is also true seeing and tensers transformation for non caster toons.

    getting rid of neg levels or stat dmg, getting a FULL heal off, raising somebody, these are where UMD may even prevent a wipe you otherwise might have faced and that would be why by and large most veteran players consider it a skill absolutely mandatory and never a waste. I listed just the majorly important stuff, there are MANY things you can situationally short term buff with umd scrolls that make specific fights or bosses much easier.


    edit3: that being said about its uses, looking at your above skill spread I dont rly see how you could possibly squeeze in UMD without an INT tome while keeping up trapping skills. you DO need balance for SWF feats and your trap skills are already non maxed, so... it is generally not easy to fit it in on first life 28point build. give some thought to making your free 2000 favor +2 tome an INT one for next life, that will help in the future

    edit4: another way to phrase it would be to say UMD offers versatility in buffs and survivability in mid to high heroics. these things become more helpful on higher difficulties especially. for a first life player, if you do NOT go for trapping it is worth trying to get in somehow but I think in your case prioritizing trapping is a valid choice. Just, remember it exists next life
    Last edited by Eryhn; 04-24-2019 at 05:49 AM.

  6. #46
    Community Member Daahly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryhn View Post

    edit2:

    off all the wondrous uses UMD has wands might very well be the least important in the list, though, they are what you can use first on lower heroic levels and they DO sure help. never underestimate how happy you can make fellow r1 puggers with indescriminate use of cure serious wand at low lvls...

    UMD is good for raise dead, ressurect, restore, greater restore, full heal scrolls mainly when on an arcane, while vice versa on a toon not having access to arcane spells allows you to scroll things like greater heroism, fire shield hot/cold, stoneskin, blur, displace.

    there is also true seeing and tensers transformation for non caster toons.

    getting rid of neg levels or stat dmg, getting a FULL heal off, raising somebody, these are where UMD may even prevent a wipe you otherwise might have faced and that would be why by and large most veteran players consider it a skill absolutely mandatory and never a waste. I listed just the majorly important stuff, there are MANY things you can situationally short term buff with umd scrolls that make specific fights or bosses much easier.


    edit3: that being said about its uses, looking at your above skill spread I dont rly see how you could possibly squeeze in UMD without an INT tome while keeping up trapping skills. you DO need balance for SWF feats and your trap skills are already non maxed, so... it is generally not easy to fit it in on first life 28point build. give some thought to making your free 2000 favor +2 tome an INT one for next life, that will help in the future

    edit4: another way to phrase it would be to say UMD offers versatility in buffs and survivability in mid to high heroics. these things become more helpful on higher difficulties especially. for a first life player, if you do NOT go for trapping it is worth trying to get in somehow but I think in your case prioritizing trapping is a valid choice. Just, remember it exists next life

    Ok I didn't know UMD included that much things hah, thanks!

    Yes the plan is to farm some favor to get 32points build and fix the traps maxing them or getting UMD. Is there a minimum?
    It looks like puting few points in it is not worth it, maybe 12 as minimum?
    I saw that crazy things happen when you get 20/22 UMD, but seems hard to achieve!

    The 2 INT tomes are also a great option, will I keep them after lvl 20 reincarnation?
    Could be nice to start at 22int a second life as Drow : P

  7. #47
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daahly View Post
    Ok I didn't know UMD included that much things hah, thanks!

    Yes the plan is to farm some favor to get 32points build and fix the traps maxing them or getting UMD. Is there a minimum?
    It looks like puting few points in it is not worth it, maybe 12 as minimum?
    I saw that crazy things happen when you get 20/22 UMD, but seems hard to achieve!

    The 2 INT tomes are also a great option, will I keep them after lvl 20 reincarnation?
    Could be nice to start at 22int a second life as Drow : P

    any tome improvements, be it to stats, skills, PRR/MRR/melee/ranged/spellpower from remnant trader or to xp or racial AP from store are a get once always have thing. next life they are still there. only, for stat tomes, they come into effect incrementally as you lvl up. the build planer you use takes that into account btw.

    as for umd, you can read up some more random info here:

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Use_Magic_Device

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Magic-Device
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Magic-Device)

    UMD skill is CHA based, so on your planed dwarf you slightly make it lower due to -2 starting stat.

    I rly think if you are a new player and still exploring the game it is perfectly fine to not bother with it on first life to 20. as maxing UMD means investment in skillpoints, CHA item, UMD swap item to make use of on low/mid heroics. buying scrolls to use also costs some plat which you may not have super much off on first life. you need to look for items appropriate to your builds main stats, PRR,MRR, fort, ghostly, spellpower, spellcrit, DC, spellpen ... and you also need to look for trap gear on your build - also looking to UMD is just another thing you have to micro manage on your first 20 lvls

    however on 2nd life with more build points, less gear troubles since first life provided you some items you can use on your next, then definetly worth it. also, that wiki entry on UMD, at bottom area lists items that help with it. some of those you can look for on first life and then have rdy for use on the 2nd ...


    edit: also as an afterthought, dont go and dump a lot of store points on INT or CHA tomes for your fist life now just cause this issue came to your attention here in thread.

    take it easy, run the difficulty that feels appropriate to you but dont sweat it. it's great you are giving some thought to details in advance and that mindset will in the long run make your game experience more comfortable and satisfying as all those little details start paying off in increments - but dont try to buy into tomes now, rather, if you do spend favor earned store points, use them to get access to more adventure packs when those are on sale. well that's my 5cents on that anyways
    Last edited by Eryhn; 04-24-2019 at 09:21 AM.

  8. #48
    Community Member Daahly's Avatar
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    Ok!
    I'll check that list and see what score of UMD I might need for a second life.
    Maybe it could be nice to drop traps, but the experience bonus on each quest is awesome while lvling.
    Cool links also! thanks

  9. #49
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daahly View Post
    Ok!
    I'll check that list and see what score of UMD I might need for a second life.
    Maybe it could be nice to drop traps, but the experience bonus on each quest is awesome while lvling.
    Cool links also! thanks
    im no expert on the minimum requirements on trap skills at lvl. unbongwah will be able to judge that more accurately. but I think for normal and hard diff if you get decent items you can get trap bonuses with your skills as above.

    speaking of useful items, some time not too far off over summer this annual event will come up: https://ddowiki.com/page/Crystal_Cove

    the treasure hunter spyglass trinket from there will be a very nice item both for UMD and trapping to get for other lives and alts

  10. #50
    Community Member Daahly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryhn View Post
    speaking of useful items, some time not too far off over summer this annual event will come up: https://ddowiki.com/page/Crystal_Cove

    the treasure hunter spyglass trinket from there will be a very nice item both for UMD and trapping to get for other lives and alts

    Nice tip this event, thx! great reward

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