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  1. #1
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Default PDK Ftr 9 / Ranger 6 TWF Khops.

    OK I TRd this guy prior to the Kensai Update and basically just left him at 15 on his 2nd Life {1st Life Fighter}.

    I have no problem resetting all his enhancements so it doesn't really matter what he has atm - Tier 5 Tempest, enough in Stalwart for StD and nothing in Kensai.

    So I'm asking....What's the best Enhancement Setup at 15 with that level split and at 20 assuming 14 Ftr / 6 Rgr?

    I don't want to go into Monk Splash on this Life but might consider it for a later life if you want to post an option for that too.

    Base Stats btw are {with tome}:
    Str 21 {24}
    Dex 14 {17}
    Con 14 {17}
    Int 10 {13}
    Wis 8 {10}
    Cha 12 {15}

    Feats are:
    CE
    Dodge
    Exotic Wpn: Khop
    Greater TWF
    IC: Slash
    Mobility
    Power Attack
    Spring Attack
    TwoWpnDefense
    Weapon Focus: Slash
    Wpn Spec: Slash
    Whirlwind Attack

    Probable Feats:
    Ftr 10 Heavy Armour Master
    Lvl 18 + Ftr 12 Tactical Mastery, Toughness
    Ftr 14 Heavy Armour Champion

    1st Destiny is Grandmaster of Flowers, 2nd will be US, 3rd LD, 4th Shiradi and 5th Primal for Cocoon. {I'd like to get the first 4 maxed and Cocoon before hitting 30}.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 06-30-2016 at 09:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member adrian69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    OK I TRd this guy prior to the Kensai Update and basically just left him at 15 on his 2nd Life {1st Life Fighter}.

    I have no problem resetting all his enhancements so it doesn't really matter what he has atm - Tier 5 Tempest, enough in Stalwart for StD and nothing in Kensai.

    So I'm asking....What's the best Enhancement Setup at 15 with that level split and at 20 assuming 14 Ftr / 6 Rgr?

    I don't want to go into Monk Splash on this Life but might consider it for a later life if you want to post an option for that too.

    Base Stats btw are {with tome}:
    Str 21 {24}
    Dex 14 {17}
    Con 14 {17}
    Int 10 {13}
    Wis 8 {10}
    Cha 12 {15}

    Feats are:
    CE
    Dodge
    Exotic Wpn: Khop
    Greater TWF
    IC: Slash
    Mobility
    Power Attack
    Spring Attack
    TwoWpnDefense
    Weapon Focus: Slash
    Wpn Spec: Slash
    Whirlwind Attack

    Probable Feats:
    Ftr 10 Toughness
    Lvl 18 + Ftr 12 Heavy Armour Master, Tactical Mastery
    Ftr 14 Heavy Armour Champion

    1st Destiny is Grandmaster of Flowers, 2nd will be US, 3rd LD, 4th Shiradi and 5th Primal for Cocoon. {I'd like to get the first 4 maxed and Cocoon before hitting 30}.
    Well, I am answering your question and then leaving suggestions.

    It's a tough choice between Tempest for DoD and Kensei with your split. A pure Kensei gets all the goodies (tempest power minus DoD and the Double Strike from DWS) without having to go into 2 trees, plus it gets 60 melee power, which is absolutely huge. I think you need to answer the question if you want to demolish bosses or trash. If you want higher single target damage, then pick up all the goodies in Kensei for 35 points and put 26 in DWS for 3d6 SA, Exposing Strike, some PSP for Cocoon, and Killer and 12 PRR w/ 60 HPs. Tempest will still provide good single target damage due to full OH, but you also get DoD. It will require more AP. Core 2 Kensei is the similar to The Growing Storm and they stack from what I hear for up to +20 dmg.

    TBH, I think a 14 ranger 6 ftr heavy armor split would be better, but that's just me. It's technically the same thing either way, but ranger heavy gets you Cure Serious or FoM and 3 FEs for +6 dmg min on those types. And it gets evasion if you chose to go light armor, which if you did get the +12 w/ defense stance and all most of the stuff from Kensei you'd be sitting over 100 easy. I have a pure ranger with 160 blitzed, so -30 and -24 is 106 and I still can get 24 more at cap. 130 with around 17-20+% dodge would be pretty good imo as long as you aren't planning on soloing LT or something.

    You're build is sort of confusing to me. You're going for heavy armor feats and spring attack line. Heavy armor is going to cap your dodge at 3%, so you have 4% or so basically wasted without the Stalwart PrEs. Why not just take cleave and GC and save yourself 3 feats? WWA doesn't work well unless you're a human monk male anyway.
    Last edited by adrian69; 06-29-2016 at 11:01 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian69 View Post
    You're build is sort of confusing to me. You're going for heavy armor feats and spring attack line. Heavy armor is going to cap your dodge at 3%, so you have 4% or so basically wasted without the Stalwart PrEs. Why not just take cleave and GC and save yourself 3 feats? WWA doesn't work well unless you're a human monk male anyway.
    Well actually at Lvl 15 and in Heavy Armour I'm at 6% Dodge {and yes that's max} but I do see your point.

    I'm not sure about Whirlwind Attack but Cleave/GtCleave are glitchy with TWF as well.

    Even with full 30% Dodge I'm going to get hit a lot and when I do get it if not in Hvy Armour I'm going to take a lot of dmg as a front line melee - I don't think I can pull off a Clothy Tempest.

  4. #4
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
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    what possible reason is there for going 14 fighter?

    id splash another 2 levels of something else.
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  5. #5
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    what possible reason is there for going 14 fighter?

    id splash another 2 levels of something else.
    PDK so can't splash Rogue as Lvl 1 is necessary.
    Monk is out as didn't build for Wisdom and planning for Heavy Armour.
    2 more levels of Ranger gets me nothing.
    Paladin is out as the character is True Neutral.

    So exactly what would you splash that gives more than an extra Feat?

  6. #6
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    BTW Guys I know the general consensus on these forums is to say you're doing it wrong but I've already created the Character, he is already Lvl 15 {I'm not using a Heart! I don't want to have to do multiple Feat Swaps either - I only posted the Stats, Feats etc. to give you the full picture}, I simply want to know the best Enhancement Setup to give him right now and to aim for for Lvl 20

    And I mean full Enhancement setup not just take this handful of enhancements because I realise it's the full package that counts and I know I'll make a mistake with two Trees I barely understand {Tempest and Kensai}. I don't know what all the "goodies" are in Kensai. Tempest is quite expensive.

  7. #7
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    PDK so can't splash Rogue as Lvl 1 is necessary.
    Monk is out as didn't build for Wisdom and planning for Heavy Armour.
    2 more levels of Ranger gets me nothing.
    Paladin is out as the character is True Neutral.

    So exactly what would you splash that gives more than an extra Feat?
    Rogue doesn't have to be taken at level 1, and 1d6 sneak attack is better then what you are getting at level 13 and 14 of fighter. 2 Rogue also also comes with Evasion which gives you an option, and the extra skills points can all be dumped into UMD.

    As for enhancements I would do Tier 5 Tempest, Strike with no Thought + Opportunity Attack from Kensei, and 1 AP in to Human for Damage boost. Left over can go in to Starker or Harper for more DPS, or Defender for PRR and HP if there's enough AP for that.

    Look like other have addressed your feat issue but you have Toughness listed as Fighter 10 Feat you can do that Toughness is not a fighter feat.

    How I would do the Enhancements (Tier 5 Tempest)

    03 AP Human
    • Human Versatility
    • Improved Recovery

    24 AP Kensei
    • Kensei Focus
    • Extra Action Boost
    • Opportunity Attack
    • Spiritual Bond
    • Weapon Group Specialization IV
    • Strike With No Thought
    • Exotic Weapon Mastery
    • Action Boost: Haste

    13 AP Defender
    • Toughness
    • Stalwart Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Durable Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Resilient Defense
    • Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2 only)
    • Greater Stalwart Defense: Tenacious Defense

    40 AP Tempest
    • Shield of Whirling Steel
    • Improved Parry
    • Storm Dancer
    • Storm Tempest
    • Dual Perfection
    • Tempest
    • Improved Reaction
    • Improved Dodge
    • Critical Mastery (Rank 1 only)
    • The Growing Storm
    • Cuts
    • Whirling Blades IV
    • Whirling Blades Mastery
    • Action Boost: Sprint
    • Dance of Death


    Tier 5 Kensei

    01 AP Human
    • Human Versatility

    34 AP Kensei
    • Kensei Focus
    • Extra Action Boost
    • Critical Mastery
    • Opportunity Attack
    • Spiritual Bond
    • Weapon Group Specialization IV
    • Weapon Master
    • Strike With No Thought
    • Exotic Weapon Mastery
    • Improved Dodge II
    • One With The Blade
    • Power Surge
    • Action Boost
    • Keen Edge

    13 AP Defender
    • Toughness
    • Stalwart Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Durable Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Resilient Defense
    • Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2 only)
    • Greater Stalwart Defense: Tenacious Defense

    26 AP Stalker
    • Far Shot:
    • Survivalist
    • Survivalist II
    • Survivalist III
    • Sneak Attack
    • Stealthy
    • Thrill of the Hunt
    • Killer
    • Called Shot
    • Increased Empathy
    • Favored Hunter
    • Versatile Empathy

    06 AP Tempest
    • Shield of Whirling Steel
    • Tempest
    • Improved Reaction II
    • Whirling Blades
    Last edited by Grailhawk; 06-30-2016 at 09:38 AM.

  8. #8
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Rogue doesn't have to be taken at level 1, and 1d6 sneak attack is better then what you are getting at level 13 and 14 of fighter. 2 Rogue also also comes with Evasion which gives you an option, and the extra skills points can all be dumped into UMD.
    Better than 12 PRR/MRR {PreReq 14 Ftr}? REALLY?

    Evasion is useless in Heavy Armour.

    I only take Rogue Levels if I'm planning on Trapping.

    And I really wish I didn't have to say this but I asked for advice with Enhancements. I'm not going to splash Rogue! 1d6 sneak attack isn't that useful to me because I mainly solo or pug and will only rarely be in a position to see any benefit from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    As for enhancements I would do Tier 5 Tempest, Strike with no Thought + Opportunity Attack from Kensei, and 1 AP in to Human for Damage boost. Left over can go in to Starker or Harper for more DPS, or Defender for PRR and HP if there's enough AP for that.
    So all that matters is 2 enhancements and it doesn't matter what mistakes I make elsewhere?

    I'm asking for a full set up not just "take these two enhancements and pick the rest yourself".

    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Look like other have addressed your feat issue but you have Toughness listed as Fighter 10 Feat you can do that Toughness is not a fighter feat.
    I realised I don't have Toughness yet so stuck it in.

    I also want to get the top Heavy Armour and Tactical Feats so taking Toughness first makes sense.

    If it's not on the list to take at Lvl 16 {when I take my 10th Fighter Level} I'll just swap it around with Heavy Armour Master then take Tactical Training as the Lvl 12 Fighter Feat and Toughness as the Lvl 18 Feat.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 06-30-2016 at 09:18 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Better than 12 PRR/MRR {PreReq 14 Ftr}? REALLY?
    Your on a Fighter with a Ranger splash there's a lot of PPR in those trees. but meh "six or one half dozen of the other" its not crucial.

    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Evasion is useless in Heavy Armour.
    I said it gives you an Option. It means it gives you the option to switch to light armor in situations where it might be more appropriate e.g quests where there are a lot of mobs spamming fire ball type spells and not very many hitting you with a stick.


    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I only take Rogue Levels if I'm planning on Trapping.
    That's your limitation its not a built in limitation of the class or the game you may want to rethink limiting youself like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    And I really wish I didn't have to say this but I asked for advice with Enhancements. I'm not going to splash Rogue! 1d6 sneak attack isn't that useful to me because I mainly solo or pug and will only rarely be in a position to see any benefit from it.
    OK, fair enough reason to like 14 fighter over 2 rogue.


    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    So all that matters is 2 enhancements and it doesn't matter what mistakes I make elsewhere?

    I'm asking for a full set up not just "take these two enhancements and pick the rest yourself".
    Updated the other post.

    You may want to try this kind of think out in the future figure out what the best DPS options in a tree are and then experiment with the rest of the enhancements see what works best for you and your play style what I do for myself may not be best for you.
    Last edited by Grailhawk; 06-30-2016 at 09:36 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post

    Updated the other post.
    Is there any chance you could redo the code for those enhancement layouts as the Tempest one especially is very difficult to read.

    And thank you.



    Oh and what should I make sure to have at Lvl 15 - For 20 that's fine but I don't want to mess up and take the wrong stuff early thereby making the newer quests more difficult than necessary {I can get through GH easily enough}.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 06-30-2016 at 09:40 AM.

  11. #11
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Ftr 10 Toughness
    Lvl 18 + Ftr 12 Heavy Armour Master, Tactical Mastery
    Ftr 14 Heavy Armour Champion
    Toughness isn't a ftr feat; you'll have to move it to your lvl 18 regular feat slot. So move HA Master to ftr 10 instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    So exactly what would you splash that gives more than an extra Feat?
    Cleric or FvS 2 for Div Might, Smite Weakness, and Wall of Steel (+10 PRR), which partially offsets not having heavy armor champion. That's 10 APs, though, so it might be too expensive if you've already got Kensei, Tempest, and SD. It also opens access to Emp Heal to boost Rej Cocoon in epics.
    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    I don't know what all the "goodies" are in Kensai. Tempest is quite expensive.
    The first decision is you have to choose between T5 Tempest (DoD, Dual Perfection, Thousand Cuts) or Kensei (Keen Edge, One w/Blade). I think I would stick with T5 Tempest, even though it means giving up Melee Power and +1 crit range; I suspect Opportunity Attack + DoD will work well together. But I'm sure someone out there is like LET ME DPS MATH IT FOR YOU.

    So something like 40 APs Tempest (DoD, DP, Whirling Blades, TC), 23 APs Kensei (Power Surge, Opportunity Atk), 13 APs SD (Tenacious Defense), 3 AP PDK/human (Dmg Boost+heal amp), with one AP left over for whatever. At lvl 15 you've got 60 APs; I'd probably do Tempest / PDK / SD first, then start pouring your APs into Kensei.
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  12. #12
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Toughness isn't a ftr feat; you'll have to move it to your lvl 18 regular feat slot. So move HA Master to ftr 10 instead.
    KK got that - Will change the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Cleric or FvS 2 for Div Might, Smite Weakness, and Wall of Steel (+10 PRR), which partially offsets not having heavy armor champion. That's 10 APs, though, so it might be too expensive if you've already got Kensei, Tempest, and SD. It also opens access to Emp Heal to boost Rej Cocoon in epics.
    Might be too expensive?

    Looking at Grail's AP layouts what would you lose to fit those 10 APs in?

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The first decision is you have to choose between T5 Tempest (DoD, Dual Perfection, Thousand Cuts) or Kensei (Keen Edge, One w/Blade). I think I would stick with T5 Tempest, even though it means giving up Melee Power and +1 crit range; I suspect Opportunity Attack + DoD will work well together. But I'm sure someone out there is like LET ME DPS MATH IT FOR YOU.
    Obviously I'd like to try both and may do the other on an ER if the one I go with isn't to my taste but it seems there's no consensus yet on whether one is strictly better than the other right?

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    So something like 40 APs Tempest (DoD, DP, Whirling Blades, TC), 23 APs Kensei (Power Surge, Opportunity Atk), 13 APs SD (Tenacious Defense), 3 AP PDK/human (Dmg Boost+heal amp), with one AP left over for whatever. At lvl 15 you've got 60 APs; I'd probably do Tempest / PDK / SD first, then start pouring your APs into Kensei.
    So probably not all that different from what I have other than I've probably spent too much in Tempest {Character was setup before the Kensai update changed everything}.

  13. #13
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Oh and what should I make sure to have at Lvl 15 - For 20 that's fine but I don't want to mess up and take the wrong stuff early thereby making the newer quests more difficult than necessary {I can get through GH easily enough}.

    01 AP Human
    • Human Versatility

    12 AP Kensei
    • Kensei Focus
    • Spiritual Bond
    • Weapon Group Specialization II
    • Strike With No Thought
    • Exotic Weapon Mastery
    • Action Boost: Haste

    13 AP Defender
    • Toughness
    • Stalwart Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Durable Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Resilient Defense
    • Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2 only)
    • Greater Stalwart Defense: Tenacious Defense

    34 AP Tempest
    • Shield of Whirling Steel
    • Improved Parry
    • Storm Dancer
    • Storm Tempest
    • Dual Perfection
    • Tempest
    • Improved Reaction
    • Improved Dodge
    • Critical Mastery (Rank 1)
    • The Growing Storm
    • Whirling Blades IV
    • Action Boost: Sprint
    • Dance of Death (Rank 2)


    That's at 60 AP after that finish off Tempest Tier 5's then make your way to Opportunity Attack

  14. #14
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    01 AP Human
    • Human Versatility

    12 AP Kensei
    • Kensei Focus
    • Spiritual Bond
    • Weapon Group Specialization II
    • Strike With No Thought
    • Exotic Weapon Mastery
    • Action Boost: Haste

    13 AP Defender
    • Toughness
    • Stalwart Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Durable Defense
    • Improved Stalwart Defense: Resilient Defense
    • Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2 only)
    • Greater Stalwart Defense: Tenacious Defense

    34 AP Tempest
    • Shield of Whirling Steel
    • Improved Parry
    • Storm Dancer
    • Storm Tempest
    • Dual Perfection
    • Tempest
    • Improved Reaction
    • Improved Dodge
    • Critical Mastery (Rank 1)
    • The Growing Storm
    • Whirling Blades IV
    • Action Boost: Sprint
    • Dance of Death (Rank 2)


    That's at 60 AP after that finish off Tempest Tier 5's then make your way to Opportunity Attack
    OK I'll give this a shot - Thank You.


    Edit: I took Improved Defense over Improved Dodge as Imp. Dodge only works in Light or No Armour.

    I also took an extra Crit Mastery Rank and 1 Str over Sprint Boost as I consider Sprint Boost to be a QoL Enhancement that I probably don't really need to have.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 06-30-2016 at 10:18 AM.

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Code:
    Enhancements (79 of 80 AP)
    
    Tempest (40 AP)
    
    
    • Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death
      1. Improved Reaction II, Whirling Blades
      2. Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
      3. Storm Dancer, Whirling Blades, Strength
      4. Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades, Strength
      5. Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Whirling Blades, Dance of Death III
    Kensei (23 AP)
    • Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades, Spiritual Bond, Strike with No Thought, Power Surge
      1. Extra Action Boost III, Weapon Group Specialization, Exotic Weapon Mastery
      2. Weapon Group Specialization
      3. Weapon Group Specialization, Shattering Strike III
      4. Opportunity Attack
    Stalwart Defender (13 AP)
    • Toughness, Stalwart Defense
      1. Item Defense I, Durable Defense III
      2. Resilient Defense III, Instinctive Defense I
      3. Tenacious Defense III
    Purple Dragon Knight (3 AP)
    • Damage Boost
      1. Improved Recovery
    Leveling Guide
    1. PDK0 Damage Boost; Ken0 Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades; Ken1 Weapon Group Specialization
    2. Ken1 Exotic Weapon Mastery; Tem0 Shield of Whirling Steel
    3. Tem1 Whirling Blades; Tem1 Improved Reaction I, II; Tem2 Improved Parry I
    4. Tem2 Improved Parry II, III; Tem2 Whirling Blades
    5. Tem0 Tempest; Tem3 Storm Dancer
    6. Tem3 Whirling Blades; Tem3 Strength; Tem2 Haste Boost I
    7. Tem2 Haste Boost II, III; Tem0 Graceful Death; Tem4 The Growing Storm I
    8. Tem4 The Growing Storm II, III; Tem4 Storm Tempest
    9. Tem4 Whirling Blades; Tem4 Strength
    10. Ken0 Spiritual Bond; Ken2 Weapon Group Specialization
    11. Ken1 Extra Action Boost I; SD0 Toughness; SD1 Durable Defense I, II
    12. SD1 Durable Defense III; SD1 Item Defense I; SD0 Stalwart Defense
    13. Tem5 Dual Perfection; Tem5 Dance of Death I, II, III
    14. Tem5 Cuts: A Thousand Cuts I, II, III; Ken0 Strike with No Thought
    15. PDK1 Improved Recovery; Tem5 Whirling Blades
    16. SD2 Resilient Defense I, II, III; SD2 Instinctive Defense I
    17. SD3 Tenacious Defense I, II, III
    18. Ken3 Weapon Group Specialization; Ken3 Shattering Strike I, II, III
    19. Ken1 Extra Action Boost II, III
    20. Ken0 Power Surge; Ken4 Opportunity Attack
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  16. #16
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
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    i thought the top tier prr feat was ml 16 like the tactics one. 14 fighter seems like a legit choice to me now, though not necessarily better than anything else.
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