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  1. #1
    Community Member Baktiotha's Avatar
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    Default Primal Avatar and Avatar of Nature

    I was asleep and did not pay attention to this epic moment. It was not until a quest when I observed 3 players running essentially the same build that I really became aware of it. Since finding out about Avatar of Nature I've read that it is not WAI, at least not with respect to the multiclass that I saw.

    I am wondering about the effectiveness of Avatar of Nature when paired with pure barbarian or pure ranger. The multiclass was monk 12/warlock 6/X 2. I understand the synergy of warlock aura in generating and helping to retain charges and how that keeps Avatar of Nature running for an extended period of time.

    What I am wondering is if there are synergies in either barbarian or ranger that would approximate the synergy of the multiclass.

    Also, when in tree form are factors like STR still incorporated into the damage? Is it advantageous to have a full rage on when entering tree form or doesn't it matter at all.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baktiotha View Post
    What I am wondering is if there are synergies in either barbarian or ranger that would approximate the synergy of the multiclass.
    No.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld#post5686475

    Basically, you really need one of the passive auras to generate enough Spirit to maintain tree form.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Baktiotha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    No.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld#post5686475

    Basically, you really need one of the passive auras to generate enough Spirit to maintain tree form.
    It would work with pure warlock then?

  4. #4
    Community Member Baktiotha's Avatar
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    Another question, do things that add n[W] to damage also add to the 72[W] of tree form?

  5. #5
    Community Member Baktiotha's Avatar
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    Some observations, Consecration with Sacred Ground does not seem to be generating any ticks towards tree form.

    Cocoon does.

    Aura does when it hits something.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baktiotha View Post
    It would work with pure warlock then?
    It would, but as you probably noticed, tree builds are quite feat-intensive; what do you gain from staying pure warlock rather than MCing some combo of rgr / ftr / monk? Note that you can only gain Spirit every 3 secs, so going from war 12 to 18 doesn't improve your Spirit regen rate. EDIT: you'll do more aura dmg, of course, but the more you invest in the caster side of things, the less sense it makes to be a tree build in the first place, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Baktiotha View Post
    Another question, do things that add n[W] to damage also add to the 72[W] of tree form?
    IIUC, the +[W] bonuses from monk lvls while centered apply, as does Dance of Flowers. I think Imp Power Atk does too, but I'm not certain. +[W] bonuses from weapons don't.

    An interesting quirk / bug to Supreme Cleave: its base dmg is always based on the equipped weapon, even in tree (or animal) form. So while normally base [W] for tree form is [d20], when using Supreme Cleave it defaults to whatever your equipped weapon is. That's why some barb-based tree builds I've seen use Twinblade, just for the [2d8] base dmg, which I think is the highest option for a 1H weapon.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 06-20-2016 at 11:12 AM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Baktiotha's Avatar
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    For the aura to be most effective the build should be 12 warlock.

    For maximum added n[W] (while still having the aura) it should be at least 12 monk.

    Cannot be 12/12....

    The question is, what other things generate the "cast a spell on an ally"/"cast an offensive spell on the enemy" Spirit and tick off fast enough to generate Spirit at the rate of 2 per 3 seconds.

    What about an Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds? I know SLAs that affect others generate 2 Spirit.

    Generating before changing isn't the real issue I guess, generating while in tree form is. 12 warlock plus hits on enemy while in form would seem to be the best choice.

    Regarding pure warlock, feats needed for tree are 3 in TWF, 5 in Whirlwind Attack, 3 in Great Cleave, 1 in IC: Bludgeoning, 1 in Overwhelming Critical, 1 in Perfect TWF. The shear number of feats argues strongest for 12 warlock/6 ranger/2 fighter (monk) or 12 warlock/6 fighter/2 monk. Ranger gets 2 TWF feats and 2 fighter or monk gets 2 feats. 7 heroic feats, 4 ranger/fighter(monk) almost covers the 12 feats needed (human/PDK for the last one). 6 fighter/2 monk gets 6 feats. 7 heroic feats plus 6 gives 13 feats for the 12 required. Monk restricts AC/PRR. Probably the best combination is 12 warlock/8 fighter giving 12 feats for the 12 required.

    12 warlock gives the longest in form regeneration of spirit so maximizes damage UNLESS the 2.5[W] from monk 12 and shorter time as tree is somehow more.

    Do non-cleaves work, like, for example, Shattering Strike or Bleed Them Out? If barbarian Supreme Cleave works couldn't the slow speed of attack be sped up with other enhancement melee attacks?
    Last edited by Baktiotha; 06-20-2016 at 10:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Baktiotha's Avatar
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    Default For anyone who might stumble across this thread --

    Having excess money is sometimes a good thing. I bought a +20 heart and lesser reincarnated into 12 warlock/8 fighter. It did have the advantage of getting all of the useful feats easily and before starting epic levels. What it did not do was improve the speed at which the character built Spirit charges or have a noticeable impact on how long the character maintained tree form.

    Having the full range of Whirlwind Attack, Cleave and Great Cleave did mean more damage and faster fights. The cooldowns on the three attacks are such that you basically just cycle through them the whole time and never do any other attack. It looks like the tree is just standing still, but it is performing the attacks.

    After experimenting I will say that my in game experience says that 12 monk/6 warlock/2 X is the right combination. It gives the fastest build up of Spirit while using handwraps. There is the need to remember to switch to melee weapons before entering tree form if you want to do maximum damage.

    I think I favor 2 fighter over 2 paladin just because the build is feat intensive and 2 fighter gives 2 feats. If I go back to the build that is probably what I will try.

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Since you're war 12 / ftr 8 anyway, did you test Kensei to figure out which bonuses apply to tree form? In particular, I want to know if Keen Edge and/or Strike w/No Thought work, since crit bonuses have tended to be wonky (i.e., broken) with unarmed / animal / tree builds, unfortunately.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Baktiotha's Avatar
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    No I did not. Part of it is because pushing up the kensei tree requires weapon focus so I didn't think further about what else was in the tree. I have since LR'd to pure warlock which I'll hold for my last levels before ETR.

    I do have another character that is L29 and that I can LR to warlock/fighter if you really want to know. He is close to some form of TR anyway and I may ITR him. If you want I don't mind and it will settle what type of TR to undertake.

  11. #11
    Community Member Deivonte's Avatar
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    I wonder if you can do this with a Body of the Sun. Since you will technically stop being a fire elemental when you turn into a tree, it might not work, but its worth a try. Can anyone see if Body of the Sun stays active while in tree form?

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deivonte View Post
    Since you will technically stop being a fire elemental when you turn into a tree, it might not work
    You are correct: it doesn't work. You can use Body of the Sun in fire elemental form to build up Spirit, IIRC; but the spell automatically dispels when you shift forms and you get a "you are in the wrong form for this spell" error message if you try recasting BotS in tree form.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-11-2016 at 02:43 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Default Body of the Sun

    Can the body of the sun aura be turned down some? It is very obtrusive for all players.

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