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  1. #21
    Community Member PainStealer's Avatar
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    Yes the shield enhancements stack.

    Normally I run in dreadnought. ( sentinel is for being a chew toy ) In dreadnought with Power Attack ( without Tensers because it is a PITA to keep up when I am zerging ) I run 274 AC ( 306 with Tenser and Combat Expertise ). Without a shield this drops to 217. This means my heavy shield is contributing 57 AC.
    Even though the shield says it is only giving 22 AC. Really for most tanking situations I just stay in dreadnought. I turn on Combat Expertise and suddenly I have the AC of most builds that run in sentinel ( if not more ).

    As far as going THF .... I wouldn't bother with this build. As S&B I run 55% doublestrike that boosts to 80% whenever I activate Block and Cut. While running fully blitzed I am hitting stunned mobs for 900-1000 damage non critical. Of course criticals go up from there. And as my Dire Charge DC is 110 right now trash is usually stunned. So while the build may not put out the DPS of some of the top ranger builds it still does very respectable DPS.

    As far as the Wizard level goes 10% AC is a pretty big contribution. You also get 1 meta magic feat as well as the feat that grants echoes of power. The meta magic I take is extend for the displacement dragonmark.
    Deijah / Deijara / Deijanna / Deijora / Deijaugh
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  2. #22
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Thanks for the answer!

    I have been playing around with the to be hit chances and frankly the value of AC diminishes once you consider all the stacking to miss sources.

    Let me give you some examples:

    Base stats: 18 dodge, mobs fail on a roll of 1, incorporeal.
    AC 200, mob attack 150 (sorjek), displacement, base stats.
    To be hit: 14% (0.95*0.36*0.82*0.9*0.5)
    AC 200, mob attack 150 (sorjek), no displacement (TS mob), base stats.
    To be hit: 25% (0.95*0.36*0.82*0.9)
    AC 300, mob attack 150 (sorjek), displacement, base stats.
    To be hit: 9% (0.95*0.27*0.82*0.9*0.5)
    AC 300, mob attack 150 (sorjek), displacement, base stats.
    To be hit: 18% (0.95*0.27*0.82*0.9)

    So it is a 5% difference with displacement, and a 7% otherwise for 100 AC. Which is nice and all, but probably very marginal in actual gameplay.

    In my case, I am trying to build a multitool character. Something that would allow me to switch to tank reaper (US with a shield), and then without even changing enhancements go LD for very high DPS. I believe that it is possible to do that without sacrificing too much offensive or defensive power.

    What I am thinking now is whether I should do dwarf 20 Fighter, which would favor DPS; or 18 fighter / 1 wizard / 1 divine. The first platform would be capstone kensei, TYWA dwarf, rest into stalwart. The second would use the wizard 10% extra AC and empower healing for cocoon from the divine class.

    The 10% armor class difference can be quite hefty in AC numbers once you start going all out on AC, but I am not sure its such a huge to miss chance after all.

    Take the numbers of my example and a 350 AC platform (kind of like yours). It is 385 AC with the wizard enhancement.

    Wizard based with displacement
    to be hit:7%
    Wizard based without displacement
    to be hit:14%
    Non wizard with displacement
    to be hit: 8%
    Non wizard based without displacement
    to be hit: 16%
    So really you are gaining 1% -2% chances to be missed. It is truly very little.

    I am very aware that MOAR is better, but then you end up with a toon that basically serves one purpose. What I am trying to do is a toon that can be multi purpose and still achieve notable results in both ends. With over 3k HPs, 300AC, 200PRR, it seems to me that this could be a reaper tank. Then hope a quick destiny switch and you got a nice THF great axe build.
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 10-19-2016 at 04:31 AM.

  3. #23
    Community Member PainStealer's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure you are missing my point.

    But that is ok. Have fun with your build. Personally I prefer to have great AC all the time. In dread I run 270 ish. For the rare times that 270 is insufficient I swap to sentinel and get 400. I have noticed a large difference in effectiveness in quests between 230 ish and the 270 I run now. The wizard level is what lets me run such a high AC in dreadnought . I find that the loss of DPS by not going pure fighter is more than offset by the fact that I rarely have to heal myself. I routinely run high level EE and LE content and find that by the end of the quest I never had to heal once. This means that I never have to stop my DPS to heal. Also you may find that those small percentages in miss chance add up once you are in the middle of a pack of LE mobs cleaving.
    Deijah / Deijara / Deijanna / Deijora / Deijaugh
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  4. #24
    2016, 2018 Player Council Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    So how viable was your tanking ability in Reaper?
    Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien

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  5. #25
    Community Member PainStealer's Avatar
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    I still have not been able to get onto lam to try it out on reaper. Once lam is up again i will try again.
    Deijah / Deijara / Deijanna / Deijora / Deijaugh
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  6. #26
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    That toon name sounds familiar. Any chance it's inspired by John Carter of Mars books?

  7. #27
    Community Member PainStealer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    That toon name sounds familiar. Any chance it's inspired by John Carter of Mars books?
    Yes. Properly it should be Dejah Thoris.

    When I first started playing MMO games about 16 years ago I misspelled Dejah as Deijah. The second MMO I ever played someone had already claimed the name Dejah. So one again I used Deijah. Ever since then I have kept the wrong spelling. All of my characters in DDO use some form of that name.
    Deijah / Deijara / Deijanna / Deijora / Deijaugh
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  8. #28
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PainStealer View Post
    Yes. Properly it should be Dejah Thoris.

    When I first started playing MMO games about 16 years ago I misspelled Dejah as Deijah. The second MMO I ever played someone had already claimed the name Dejah. So one again I used Deijah. Ever since then I have kept the wrong spelling. All of my characters in DDO use some form of that name.
    Cool. It's been a while but those were some good books.

  9. #29
    Community Member achitophel's Avatar
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    10/10, would copy build again.

  10. #30
    Community Member PainStealer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    interesting build, PainStealer.

    But I am curious. What would you do differently if you had a whole stack of displacement clickies from shroud and decided not to use the dragonmark for displace?

    what about a TYWA dwarf?
    First off ... I am sorry it took so long to respond ... I just havn't checked this thread for a week or so.

    Personally I would not do TYWA ... It costs a ton of AP. There are so many things you can spend your AP on as a fighter that to me seem a lot better. I have done this fighter as a pure 20 dwarf before. Pure fighter with this feat setup is great. I do have a ton of displacement clickies but I just got tired of micromanaging the buff. I noticed that when I was dying it was because the clickie had worn off and I forgot to refresh it. So I decided to look around for a better way to get displacement. Elf was an easy choice. Splashing 1 Wizard let me extend the dragon mark as well as gave me 10% AC.
    Deijah / Deijara / Deijanna / Deijora / Deijaugh
    Ornery and Loving it.

  11. #31
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcedes View Post
    what about a TYWA dwarf?
    In another thread, I saw someone argue that even if you go CON-based S&B dwarf, you should skip TYWA and stick with STR to dmg. The reason being that there's so much stat inflation these days thru gear, tomes, etc. that even with modest base STR (let's say 13 + 4 tome for THF feat-preqs) and no level-ups, you're still going to have a high enough dmg mod without TYWA. Whereas your APs are a finite resource and 18 is a lot to sacrifice, particularly given all the buffage in the class PrEs and especially if you want a Vanguard which is always AP-constrained. Even if you're willing to spend 18 APs in your racial tree, you might be better off on a S&B dwarf taking Dwarven Fortress (+7% S&B DPS) over TYWA.
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  12. #32
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    i was building something extremely similar to this...for the main reason i was sick and tired of forgetting my displacement clickies ever 1.5 minutes with my last life.

    i hadnt thought of the wizard splash. i was going to do 17 fighter/3 paladin. VERY similar feat/enhancement setup. nearly identical in fact. my goal was going to be to stack as much AC + dodge as possible. I have been doing PRR builds since the stat was released and my results have been mixed but effective. It seems after about 225-250 PRR there really is not much point to more and can likely get more out of stacking AC once you hit that point of diminishing returns.

    i have decided to splash in that 1 level of wizard. you have intrigued me and i know im doing another fighter life after this so if i dont like it, no biggie.

    im curious though, why the fighter past life at level 2? seems like the build doesnt really gain much from that.

    my biggest concern with the path i am on right now is the self healing. it should be fine. but im spoiled by my last paladin life.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by PainStealer View Post
    I didnt break down the Epic Destinies I used because it is just Sentinel. Pick all the AC bonuses. Twist in stuff that makes you survive longer.
    I am relearning everything after a 7-year hiatus. Wiki lists requirements for Unyielding Sentinel, and I don't see how this build reaches any of them. I'm missing something, so enlighten me?
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyCrockett View Post
    I am relearning everything after a 7-year hiatus. Wiki lists requirements for Unyielding Sentinel, and I don't see how this build reaches any of them. I'm missing something, so enlighten me?
    The "Requirements" for Unyielding Sentinel are purely for when a character first its 20 on any life, and is able to choose their STARTING destiny. This is where you'd need to qualify to start in the Sentinel destiny.


    After choosing your starter, you are able to freely unlock the others by earning experience and moving around the 'map' presented in-game. Your progress on these destinies is permanent, you will pick up where you left off after any reincarnation afterwards. Hope this helps clarify what I understood of your question!

  15. #35
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyCrockett View Post
    I am relearning everything after a 7-year hiatus. Wiki lists requirements for Unyielding Sentinel, and I don't see how this build reaches any of them. I'm missing something, so enlighten me?
    Welcome back.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Destinies

    The crash course in Epic Destinies (EDs):
    • EDs were introduced in Update 14 (MotU) along with epic levels (at the time 21-25). XP you gain in epics goes towards your EDs, your epic lvls, and your Karma (more on that later).
    • The first time you get a char to lvl 20 (or in your case the first time you relevel a pre-MotU toon to 20), you can unlock your first ED. Which EDs you can unlock depends on your class(es) which are associated with one of four Spheres. E.g., a pure paladin only has access to the Divine Sphere. Once you pick your initial ED, that becomes your starting point from which you can traverse the other EDs; you unlock an adjacent ED when you hit ED lvl 3 or 4, depending on whether it's in the same Sphere or not.
    • As you level your ED, you gain Epic Destiny Points (EDPs) which you spend on ED abilities, much as you do with PrEs. Also like PrEs, you need to spend EDPs in each tier to unlock the next one; i.e., spend 4 EDPs in the first tier to unlock the second; spend a total of 8 EDPs in the first two tiers to unlock the third, etc. However, unlike PrEs, there's no universal "pool" of EDPs; each ED is leveled separately. E.g., say you started in Unyielding Sentinel (US) and leveled it to 3; this earns you 16 EDPs and unlocks the two adjacent EDs in the Divine Sphere. But if you switched to Divine Crusader, you would start over with zero EDPs.
    • So why level other EDs besides your main one? This is where Twists of Fate come in. As you level your EDs, you gain Fate pts, which can be used to unlock Twist slots; these let you add abilities from other EDs to your currently active ED. E.g., a common Twist for a S&B toon is Legendary Shield Mastery (LSM) from US: "Passive Bonus: While wearing a shield, you gain +[5/10/15] Physical Resistance Rating and +[2/4/7]% chance to doublestrike." When you Twist LSM, you gain those passive bonuses while in another ED. Twists are progressively more expensive; i.e., the first rank is 1 Fate pt, the next rank is 2 Fate pts, etc. Currently the max # of Fate pts is 37, so that puts a hard limit on which Twist combos are possible. Also you can't Twist a tier-5 or tier-6 ED ability nor the inherent cores; so that becomes part of planning your build long-term.
    • So what's Karma? U20 introduced two new forms of Reincarnation: Iconic TR (ITR) and Epic Reincarnation (ER or ETR). Karma is used for the latter; when you "fill" one of your ED Spheres with 6 million Karma, you can ER for an epic PL feat at level cap. You lose that Karma and drop down to level 20, while gaining an EPL. Because it wouldn't be DDO if they didn't keep inventing new ways to keep you farming for past lives, would it?
    • Fortunately, leveling an ED is permanent; once you max out an ED, you never have to level it again. [Trust me: the first time you max out, say, a caster-centric ED on a pure melee toon, your immediate reaction will be, "Thank goodness I don't have to do that again!"] Although when you HTR or ITR, all your EDPs are automatically reset, which means you have to redo them when you get back to lvl 20, which is a bit of a PITA.


    So when talking about epic toons, it's important to distinguish between endgame toons which have filled out all their EDs, farmed their past lives, etc. and toons which are still on that journey. A lot of the build threads you'll find (including this one) is focused on endgame configs, without necessarily providing a plan for how you get there.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 01-15-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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  16. #36

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    Thank you to the both of ya! I get it now. So in this build, at first time Epic, one would be able to choose a Fighter ED.
    So getting the Heroic Past Lives first would be a wise choice, then start the ER-fest to unlock the ED, mixing up your main class each time to have access to different EDs (much like you mix it up to get the Past Lives). The Greek is slowly becoming English!! lol
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyCrockett View Post
    then start the ER-fest to unlock the ED, mixing up your main class each time to have access to different EDs
    This part isn't strictly correct.

    Your Heroic class mix is only ever relevant to ED selection ONCE, when you first choose one.

    Once levelled to 20+, and a 'Martial' Destiny was selected, this build could then unlock all the other EDs by earning exp in each one and moving along the chains. All without changing it's Heroic class mix.

    Once a character has the experience to unlock a destiny, they can freely swap in/out of it at an NPC ingame.

  18. #38
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyCrockett View Post
    So getting the Heroic Past Lives first would be a wise choice, then start the ER-fest to unlock the ED, mixing up your main class each time to have access to different EDs (much like you mix it up to get the Past Lives).
    One thing to bear in mind: when you HTR or ITR, all of your quest completions are reset; that doesn't happen when you ER, though. So the downside to HTR/ITR is you lose all your Favor, raid flagging, etc. and have to do it all over again to unlock whatever you want to access on your next life. But the downside to ER is you can't re-qualify for first-time completion bonuses on quests; in particular, you don't get Bravery Bonuses for quests you ran before you ERed.

    So it's probably more optimal to alternate between HTR/ITR and ER in order to keep those XP bonuses maxed out as much as possible. I'm sure someone has a spreadsheet or something where they figured out the optimal order for banging out all the past lives...
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  19. #39
    Community Member zehnvhex's Avatar
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    It's actually a bit of a wash. We'll assume for the sake of argument you're going to be doing a lot of this solo.

    Some things to consider:

    Swapping method
    ----
    Start at level 1
    Get 30
    ETR to 20 (get EPL)
    TR into an iconic (get HPL)

    Get to 30
    ITR into level 1 (get IPL and HPL)
    Go to start
    -----
    - First run/BB bonus are really nice
    - Constantly switching builds/classes keeps things fresh
    - More dungeon variety keeps you from stabbing your face out


    Vs.


    Grinding ETR's first method
    ----
    Start at level 1
    HTR at 20 (HPL)
    HTR again at 20 (HPL and unlock 36 point build)
    Get to 30 and now do 36 ETR's
    Now do 15 ITR's (15 EPL's, 15 HPL's)
    Now finish out HTR's
    ----
    - Can focus on beefing up one fast clearing power build to make ETR's go faster
    - Saga's don't reset when you ETR so you can instantly boost from 20 to 22 or 23
    - Having full ETR bonuses when you start TR train is insane boost to low leveling speed
    - Can get your 20 run completions for raids

    ...

    Personally I prefer the ETR grinding method. I was able to make a perfect set of crafted gear for levels 20, 25 and have my 'raid' stuff at 28. Makes leveling super fast too once you do start on your TR train. Having 30+ PRR, AC, etc...is stupidly good.
    Last edited by zehnvhex; 01-17-2017 at 11:25 AM.
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  20. #40
    Community Member adrian69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    It's actually a bit of a wash. We'll assume for the sake of argument you're going to be doing a lot of this solo.

    Some things to consider:

    Swapping method
    ----
    Start at level 1
    Get 30
    ETR to 20 (get EPL)
    TR into an iconic (get HPL)

    Get to 30
    ITR into level 1 (get IPL and HPL)
    Go to start
    -----
    - First run/BB bonus are really nice
    - Constantly switching builds/classes keeps things fresh
    - More dungeon variety keeps you from stabbing your face out


    Vs.


    Grinding ETR's first method
    ----
    Start at level 1
    HTR at 20 (HPL)
    HTR again at 20 (HPL and unlock 36 point build)
    Get to 30 and now do 36 ETR's
    Now do 15 ITR's (15 EPL's, 15 HPL's)
    Now finish out HTR's
    ----
    - Can focus on beefing up one fast clearing power build to make ETR's go faster
    - Saga's don't reset when you ETR so you can instantly boost from 20 to 22 or 23
    - Having full ETR bonuses when you start TR train is insane boost to low leveling speed
    - Can get your 20 run completions for raids

    ...

    Personally I prefer the ETR grinding method. I was able to make a perfect set of crafted gear for levels 20, 25 and have my 'raid' stuff at 28. Makes leveling super fast too once you do start on your TR train. Having 30+ PRR, AC, etc...is stupidly good.

    I tell my people to 1 to 20, 20-30, 30-20, 20-1, 15-30, 30-20, 20-30, 30-1, rotation to get ETRs done faster. They're more important imo, and can make the last lives on Triple C move really fast allowing a person to really negate gear until they hit Orchard/Vale (or Archon's).

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