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  1. #21
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    I suspect that the real reason for not including light spell power is to limit warlocks. Providing more power for them is probably a greater concern than limiting the few light based divines. If that is the case, it is a poor way to limit one build by really hurting another, but we know from past experience that such methods are not unusual for Turbine.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Seljuck's Avatar
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    Default Clarification

    I added clarification about active effects and mysterious bonus effects. More information will be provided when rest of the effects will be shown on Lama to preview.
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  3. #23
    Community Member RD2play's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seljuck View Post
    I added clarification about active effects and mysterious bonus effects. More information will be provided when rest of the effects will be shown on Lama to preview.
    Personally I would like to see the "mysterious" effects stay unknown so we have to find them out on life.
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  4. #24
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I suspect that the real reason for not including light spell power is to limit warlocks. Providing more power for them is probably a greater concern than limiting the few light based divines. If that is the case, it is a poor way to limit one build by really hurting another, but we know from past experience that such methods are not unusual for Turbine.
    I had a part in my post about this and how it's really a bad decision to penalize 2 classes because a third class is performing well. It that was the real reason behind the decision than the Development staff should adjust warlock down further.

    Once they leave something out of the crafting system, Turbine has a poor track record of going back to add it in later.
    Last edited by Atremus; 12-05-2015 at 08:50 PM.
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  5. #25
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    I find the total reliance on elemental affixes/bursts on the melee weapons to be really ghostbane feeling and underwelming,

    No way to sacrifice 6d6 affix damage for say +1W
    No way to give up 'burst" for say +2 more enhancement bonus
    No mineral aspect (Keen)
    No Radiance
    No sundering ooze

    I would like to see more flexibility and utility and less "you can make a cold or a fire or a Acid or a Electric"

    No offense Varg but aren't you guys tired of everything being "earth wind fire and water" isn't that getting kinda tired? I know it's way over my fatigue levels... How about keeping Good and Evil and adding the other Alignments and Piercing and slashing and blunt?

    I'd like to see some new avenues some ways to accentuate one aspect at the expense of another. Instead of only offering a proc/blast/affix or utility at T3 offer the choice of something that beefs up the main weapon damage, or makes the weapon more suitable to a specific task

    T3
    Legendary disruption or Smiting or Banishing
    T2 + T3
    Exquisite Sharpness: two tiers combined give +1 Multiplier, or an added Dice range increase if multiplier is too strong.
    Exquisite Deadly +5
    Exquisite Seeker +10
    Exquisite Enhancement Bonus

    Offer something that isn't just more spammed affixes on the screen our combat feedback already looks like this:
    1250 +6* +13^ +12* +33` +4* +90`+6* +13^ +12* +33` +4* +90` +6* +13^ +12* +33` +4* +90`
    559 +meh +yawn +more +etc.

    Or baring that how about
    T1 6d6 Fire
    T2 2d6 Fire burst combines with the first fire affix (8d6)
    T3 2d6 Fire blast (10d6)

    So at least the affix spam becomes an intelligable and significant single larger number instead of 3 meaningless integers in a long string of other on hit affixes.

    Yes this argument is primarily about the aesthetics of combat feedback... I don't know if I'm the only one who feels this way but long strings of integers don't communicate much useful info.

  6. #26
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I suspect that the real reason for not including light spell power is to limit warlocks. Providing more power for them is probably a greater concern than limiting the few light based divines. If that is the case, it is a poor way to limit one build by really hurting another, but we know from past experience that such methods are not unusual for Turbine.
    As true as this is ... it is so disappointing. Divines getting shafted again.

  7. #27
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    Default no light spell power ???


  8. #28
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    Thought about it, and its still



    this is not balance, being afraid to help one class because of another.




    Are you planning something super special for light, or is force not included as well, because the list is:

    fire, ice, acid, electric <---- most likely to buff
    sonic
    force, slashing, bludgeing
    light <--- just slightly less likely than force
    untyped

  9. #29
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Thought about it, and its still



    this is not balance, being afraid to help one class because of another.




    Are you planning something super special for light, or is force not included as well, because the list is:

    fire, ice, acid, electric <---- most likely to buff
    sonic
    force, slashing, bludgeing
    light <--- just slightly less likely than force
    untyped
    So they give master of light feat and scion of celestia but then add no items in new LGS system for helping them. I don't get it. Where is the balance? What should a divine dps caster craft from new LGS system?

  10. #30
    Community Member Morroiel's Avatar
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    I expect they'll add light spell power to the mix - if not, they could have saved their time and not added any of the other mini buffs to divines.

    Missing out on that much spell power will kill divines - it will also significantly damage warlock's single target damage.

    If warlock nerfs are needed in order to convince you guys its a good idea to add light into the mix for this crafting system, then I suggest scaling back warlock aoe damage. Warlock's could use a nerf in terms of aoe damage, but please do not touch single target damage (its already painfully low as it is).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    A new harder difficulty is likely to just be that: harder, without giving commensurate power...Ideally, at the very hardest edge of difficulty, we would not know how long it would take until all quests are completed on that difficulty.

  11. #31
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    If we get something like "+1 epic destiny point to spend per epic level" or increasing ED levels to 10 so that one can take sunbolt and reborn in light, then maybe ill overlook this...

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    So they give master of light feat and scion of celestia but then add no items in new LGS system for helping them. I don't get it. Where is the balance? What should a divine dps caster craft from new LGS system?
    IDK, maybe craft a +23 wisdom item? Kinda reminds me of the old days where people would beg clerics to do raids with people but the raids themselves had nothing of value for them.

    As for balance, balance doesn't mean every class gets the same stuff as that'd just make every class feel very samey. You can already get 30 light/alignment spell power from Sun Elf past lives and I don't ever recall people complaining about that being unbalanced or unfair.

  13. #33
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    I guess its only min level 26, when you start developing min lvl 30 sentient weapons, make sure light spell power is included?

  14. #34
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    First reaction was pretty negative: Just boring set of bonuses that are higher numbers than existing options, but then I looked at the heroic greensteel options again, just the T1, T2, and T3, ignoring the active effects and special effects from your choices of T1/2/3, and well... those are really boring too. So let's wait and see, I guess? All the cool stuff is hopefully still to come.

    Regarding much higher available stats on weapons: as long as they are only available on weapons and NOT equipment (like heroic greensteel) it makes for interesting choices, along with heal amp etc. You'd really like those things but if you have to give up your weapon slot for it then you have a difficult choice to make. If you can put it on equipment then it would be a no-brainer for every character to have that as their main stat. Yawn.

    Regarding lack of metalline option: This was available from the combination of earth and positive shards at T1/2/3 in heroic greensteel, so it will probably still show up, but if it doesn't? Great, there's the niche for Thunderforged weapons to remain relevant compared to the more powerful, lower level, greensteel.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayseifn View Post
    IDK, maybe craft a +23 wisdom item?
    I guess so, and wear a lantern ring

  16. #36
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    Looking greensteel all over.

    Fire, cold, acid, electric, positive, negative

    Big bonuses on weapon to stats

    ect

    This is tradition and makes sense to me.
    It makes TF (that has force, sonic, etc) different from greensteel.

    However, I will ask for a bone for divine and explain why:


    Master of Alignment was Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, Order's Wrath, Unholy Blight, Defict Vengence
    I will point out that is only two good spells in most dungeons, because most dungeons have an alignment pattern.
    Trust me, I have had divines with all four of the level four alignement spells and typically I only cast one of them.
    So, please throw divine a big bone and add Flamestrike to the Master of Alignment while leaving the other five spells already in the feat still there.

    Building a Favored Soul, I have found there is definitely room to take two Master of ____ feats in such a build.

    Thanks for listening.


    PS I sure would like to see:

    Tome of Epic Destiny Points (add +1 point to spend in epic destinies per plus)
    Tome of Enhancement Points (add +1 point to spend in enhancement per plus)

    Even if they only went to +2 or +3 it would be a nice addition to the game w/o too much power creep.
    Make sure they drop in game as well as DDO store.

  17. #37
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD2play View Post
    Yeah I see they changed it on the wiki, since u19 they no longer stack and all higher than 1 values where changed to insight.... argh I knew this! Need to look at the description in game on older items, as it might need to be adjusted since somewhere in my mind in the description it states it stacks with it self.
    The bonus type "Exceptional" is not intended to stack with itself, similar to Enhancement, Insight, and most bonus types.

    If there's anything in-game that says otherwise, that's definitely a bug (and we'd love to know about it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulverine View Post
    The higher crit multiplier is a confirmed bug. All weapons are intended to have standard crit profiles.
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    They really need to not put cooldowns on gear effects.
    The primary reason these are put on is due to not want to drastically favor some combat styles over others, or even some combat stats. On-hit effects scale with alacrity and doublestrike and TWF, but not so much with things like THF etc. We don't want combat to boil down to only be how often you can produce "attacks".

    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    Light Spell Power should be added for Legendary Crafting. I know Varg said it wouldn't be added during the Devchat session last night. But, I would still like to suggest that it is added: Leaving it out, I feel is a large mistake.

    Reasoning: Missing the capability to craft a Light spell power item means that any Light based divine caster will miss out on the +37 Quality Bonus to Spell Power (for Light) available on Tier 2 Legendary GS and the 37 Exceptional Bonus to SPP available at Tier 3

    This will put a light caster behind by 74 spell power assuming the base stays at 150, which is pretty a pretty significant amount to miss out on. Since almost no one plays a "divine" anymore, I don't see the reasoning behind this decision. Light based characters need a lot of love and this is really bad to keep them out of the new system.
    We don't feel Legendary Green Steel should have everything. It's already a very large system and adding even more to it doesn't seem desirable - not just spell powers, but every other thing suggested (plus we'd have to figure out where to put it; everything has something already).

    It is good feedback to remind us that we should keep these kinds of bonuses in mind when designing in other items.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We don't feel Legendary Green Steel should have everything. It's already a very large system and adding even more to it doesn't seem desirable - not just spell powers, but every other thing suggested (plus we'd have to figure out where to put it; everything has something already).

    It is good feedback to remind us that we should keep these kinds of bonuses in mind when designing in other items.
    Just to offer one different viewpoint - the fidelity to the original greensteel is great on the whole, but the lack of light spellpower is an example of how the game has changed since shroud the first time. DPS casters using light spells weren't really a valid build, but thanks to enhancement updates and EDs its now arguably the only decent niche divines have (since healers became redundant). Artis and monks get shafted a bit by this system but at least are getting tailored items elsewhere.

    One way to add light spellpower but not create *new* effects would be to replace positive spellpower effects with light ones. Alignment damage boosts makes more sense thematically with the good damage options available on positive shards anyway, and unless player HP inflates at the same rate as mob hp, the need for positive spellpower to rise is not as great. Clerics and FvS need serious light spell power - they have plenty of options to cover positive spell power elsewhere. And NO non-healer build is wasting that much dps potential to boost rejuvenating cocoon anyway.

  19. #39
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The primary reason these are put on is due to not want to drastically favor some combat styles over others, or even some combat stats. On-hit effects scale with alacrity and doublestrike and TWF, but not so much with things like THF etc. We don't want combat to boil down to only be how often you can produce "attacks".
    While I can understand that, the end result is that dev time is spent creating effects that no one will actually use. The blindness proc on Thunder forged, for example, has a 12 second cooldown. Do you realize how many mobs you can face in 12 seconds, especially with the tendency in most recent updates for us to face huge waves of mobs? Blinding one mob out of half a dozen is pretty weak. And this is endgame gear we are talking about. Min level 12 heroic greensteel procs blindness on crit. It's pretty silly for min level 12 gear to have better proc effects than endgame gear, don't you think?

    Golem's Heart is another good example of how the cooldown makes the item essentially useless. A 30 second cooldown with a 2% proc chance for a minor heal and AoE damage effect is too weak to be worth slotting.

    Plus, I don't agree with your logic. Proc effects are not going to invalidate entire fighting styles. Currently, thf is the optimal choice for AoE damage, twf is optimal for single target damage, swf is the middle ground between them both. I can't imagine that proc effects are going to invalidate that ranking. That's a good balance and where they should be imo. Aside from the fact that at least half of the melee trees are designed to favor specific weapon/fighting styles, players will choose their fighting style (and build/enhancement trees) for the kind of damage they want to emphasize (i.e. AoE, single target, or both). Proc effects are not going to drastically alter that prioritizing.

    Including cooldowns on proc effects results in them not being competitive with the other options, and the end result is no one uses them. So either don't include the cooldown or don't bother wasting the dev time creating the effects in the first place.

    EDIT: Give proc effects a set % chance to proc if you want to limit their potential. The paralyzing proc on Thunder forged is a good example of this. It's a straight 5% chance with no cooldown as far as I know. But if you put a cooldown on proc effects, no one is going to use them.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 12-07-2015 at 03:04 PM.
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  20. #40
    Community Member Kza's Avatar
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    I have played the game since game launched at cap 10 (europe).

    For me the golden era of the game was at lvl 12-16. So many fun items in the raids was invented by the devs. Titan loot, abbot loot, demon queen loot and then shroud loot.

    So many items- so many fun items!!

    And the shroud to rule em all, suplement em all and bind it all together for your toon.


    I beg to you devs to reconsider this thing that not have all spellpowers in the shroud. This shall (hopefully) be the raid that players want to play for YEARS!! If so they need to be able to craft all basic things from it imho. Plz also asap make handwraps.

    It shall not matter if you are a bard a monk a cleric a warlock a warrior or anything else, to the EPIC SHROUD you all should want to travel!!!!

    Plz delay release and implement everything needed?

    And as some others has asked for, dont make the mysterious effects appear on lamania, let players find em and explore them in game!! **so** much ** funnier**.

    Thanks for listening

    :-)

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