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  1. #1
    Community Member edana's Avatar
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    Default How to use +X Lesser Reincarnation to change old multiclass

    Hello Community:

    Came back to game after long break (2010). after few weeks of learning the changes, new features through googling and leveling up some of my level 15 toons, now I have some understanding of all the new stuff.

    To get to know the game better before TR, I want to try some new class combo without re-leveling, some of my old toon already have 3 class, after reading how Reincarnation works, I found that use +X Lesser Heart of the Wood wont allow me to to switch one of the old class to a new class due to "3 class max limitation during reincarnation including previous class". Here are my questions, need help!!!

    To change a new splash class on a 3 class toon, I'll need to use two +X Lesser Heart of Wood? first one +X to change it a two class toon, than use the 2nd +X lesser Heart of Wood to add new 3rd class?

    Exp: 15 ftr/ 2 rge/ 1 rog, use a +3 LHW to take out the 2 ranger, make it a 17 ftr/ 1 rog, than use +3 LHW to add two level of Pally make it a 15 ftr/1 rog/2 pally? would this work, or there is alternative method?

    Thank you guys in advance and all thoughts welcome, Cheers!

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    During the LR process, you cannot have more than three classes in your build. But if you eliminate your third class before you finish the process, that's when you can start swapping over to your new third class.

    E.g, say you had a rog 1 / rgr 2 / ftr 4 char which you lvled in that order and you wanted to get rid of rgr & replace with pal. You could do this with an LR +3:

    1: rog -> rog (no change)
    2: rgr -> ftr (1st change)
    3: rgr -> pal (2nd change - eliminates rgr and swaps to pal)
    4: ftr -> pal (3rd change)
    5: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    6: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    7: ftr -> ftr (no change)

    But what if you had backloaded your rgr lvls? Then you'd have to do this:
    1: rog -> rog (no change)
    2: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    3: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    4: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    5: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    6: rgr -> ftr (1st change)
    7: rgr -> pal (2nd change - eliminates rgr and swaps to pal)

    NB: alignment-restricted classes. You cannot use an alignment change in the middle of the LR process. So if you wanted to convert, say, a pally into a barb (or vice versa), you would have to (A) LR +X out your alignment-restricted class to an alignment-neutral one (e.g., pal -> ftr); (B) use an alignment change from DDO Store; then (C) LR +X into the new alignment-restricted class you want (e.g., ftr -> barb).
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  3. #3
    Community Member edana's Avatar
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    Ah! Thank you for fast and detail reply, so one +x LR would do the job to swap a old splash class with new class on a 3 class char following those steps? I found this info from DDO wiki (might be outdated) that confuse me , quote as follow:

    "As a direct result of the 3 classes limit, a multi-classed character that already has 3 classes, can only select classes from his previous life during reincarnation. So a Cleric/Fighter/Wizard can select any combination of Cleric, Fighter and/or Wizard during reincarnation, but no other class."

    Hope this Wiki information is outdated

  4. #4
    Community Member icekinslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    During the LR process, you cannot have more than three classes in your build. But if you eliminate your third class before you finish the process, that's when you can start swapping over to your new third class.

    E.g, say you had a rog 1 / rgr 2 / ftr 4 char which you lvled in that order and you wanted to get rid of rgr & replace with pal. You could do this with an LR +3:

    1: rog -> rog (no change)
    2: rgr -> ftr (1st change)
    3: rgr -> pal (2nd change - eliminates rgr and swaps to pal)
    4: ftr -> pal (3rd change)
    5: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    6: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    7: ftr -> ftr (no change)

    But what if you had backloaded your rgr lvls? Then you'd have to do this:
    1: rog -> rog (no change)
    2: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    3: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    4: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    5: ftr -> ftr (no change)
    6: rgr -> ftr (1st change)
    7: rgr -> pal (2nd change - eliminates rgr and swaps to pal)

    NB: alignment-restricted classes. You cannot use an alignment change in the middle of the LR process. So if you wanted to convert, say, a pally into a barb (or vice versa), you would have to (A) LR +X out your alignment-restricted class to an alignment-neutral one (e.g., pal -> ftr); (B) use an alignment change from DDO Store; then (C) LR +X into the new alignment-restricted class you want (e.g., ftr -> barb).

    This is not true. Pally would be the 4th class and not allowed. Don't waste a heart trying this imho.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekinslayer View Post
    This is not true. Pally would be the 4th class and not allowed. Don't waste a heart trying this imho.
    MORTAL FOOL YOU DARE QUESTION THE WORD OF UNBONGWAH?!?!

    *shoots fire!*

    Since I have more bank alts than I know what to do with, let's see if I can find a triple-classed char with an LR +20 I can sacrifice to show how this works...here we go!



    Dunno what I was thinking with this one...anywho, I'll get rid of the two rog lvls and replace the second rog lvl with rgr to show it can be done with a single LR. It turns out my leveling order was: rog 1 / monk 1 / pal 1 / rog 2. So it's the last lvl when I'll swap in rgr.

    +20 LR I CHOOSE YOU!



    Logout then back in and we get the initial character generation screen. Naturally, I took my first rogue lvl at lvl 1; we can see here I can switch it to pal or monk but not ftr, b/c that would turn it into a four-class build (ftr 1 / pal 1 / monk 1 / rog 1). [Barb would be grayed out due to alignment restriction regardless.] Let's switch it to pal 1.



    We now go to the Life-Shaper to continue the process. Next comes lvl 2, ofc, which was my monk splash. I'm actually offered the chance to change this to any class, b/c it's my only monk lvl. If this was a "real" LR, this is where I would put rgr 1, but I want to show you can switch from one triple-class split to a different triple-class split by "rotating out" a class; so we'll stick with monk.

    Lvl 3 was my second pal lvl. Here I could switch to monk or rog but not anything else, since I'm still a triple-class build. Attempting to pick any other alignment-compatible class results in this message:



    We'll stick with pal.

    Now comes lvl 4 and my second (and currently only) rog lvl. Remember I swapped out rog at lvl 1, so my current build is pal/monk/pal/rog in that order. I go to switch rog to rgr and...success! Log back out to see:



    I.e., I did:

    1: rog -> pal
    2: monk -> monk
    3: pal -> pal
    4: rog -> rgr

    Conclusion: LR +X process works as I described; it is possible to switch out one of your three classes for a different (alignment-compatible) one on a single LR IF you purge your build of the unwanted class first then add in the new third one. This can be done on the final level of the class you're removing. [In this case, I could've swapped monk for, say, ftr and wound up pal 2 / rgr 1 / ftr 1, but didn't want to make this example too complicated.]

    Any questions, class?

    *shoots fire!*
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-12-2015 at 09:35 PM.
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  6. #6
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    I think it might be easier to understand if you write out the classes in every level as a single word:

    AABBBBCCCCCC (2 Art, 4 Bbn, 6 Clr)

    Going left to right you can change a letter, but never have more than three different letters.

    AABBBBCCCCCC
    CABBBBCCCCCC
    CCBBBBCCCCCC
    CCDBBBCCCCCC
    CCDDBBCCCCCC
    CCDDDBCCCCCC
    CCDDDWCCCCCC

    And that's how you'd respec your Art/Bbn/Clr into a Clr/Drd/Wlk.

  7. #7
    Community Member icekinslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    MORTAL FOOL YOU DARE QUESTION THE WORD OF UNBONGWAH?!?!

    *shoots fire!*

    Since I have more bank alts than I know what to do with, let's see if I can find a triple-classed char with an LR +20 I can sacrifice to show how this works...here we go!



    Dunno what I was thinking with this one...anywho, I'll get rid of the two rog lvls and replace the second rog lvl with rgr to show it can be done with a single LR. It turns out my leveling order was: rog 1 / monk 1 / pal 1 / rog 2. So it's the last lvl when I'll swap in rgr.

    +20 LR I CHOOSE YOU!



    Logout then back in and we get the initial character generation screen. Naturally, I took my first rogue lvl at lvl 1; we can see here I can switch it to pal or monk but not ftr, b/c that would turn it into a four-class build (ftr 1 / pal 1 / monk 1 / rog 1). [Barb would be grayed out due to alignment restriction regardless.] Let's switch it to pal 1.



    We now go to the Life-Shaper to continue the process. Next comes lvl 2, ofc, which was my monk splash. I'm actually offered the chance to change this to any class, b/c it's my only monk lvl. If this was a "real" LR, this is where I would put rgr 1, but I want to show you can switch from one triple-class split to a different triple-class split by "rotating out" a class; so we'll stick with monk.

    Lvl 3 was my second pal lvl. Here I could switch to monk or rog but not anything else, since I'm still a triple-class build. Attempting to pick any other alignment-compatible class results in this message:



    We'll stick with pal.

    Now comes lvl 4 and my second (and currently only) rog lvl. Remember I swapped out rog at lvl 1, so my current build is pal/monk/pal/rog in that order. I go to switch rog to rgr and...success! Log back out to see:



    I.e., I did:

    1: rog -> pal
    2: monk -> monk
    3: pal -> pal
    4: rog -> rgr

    Conclusion: LR +X process works as I described; it is possible to switch out one of your three classes for a different (alignment-compatible) one on a single LR IF you purge your build of the unwanted class first then add in the new third one. This can be done on the final level of the class you're removing. [In this case, I could've swapped monk for, say, ftr and wound up pal 2 / rgr 1 / ftr 1, but didn't want to make this example too complicated.]

    Any questions, class?

    *shoots fire!*

    Thats a nice demo. Devs said you couldn't have 4 classes though. Weird how that worked out.

  8. #8
    Community Member edana's Avatar
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    You guys rocked, Thanks for helping to clarify this TR confusion!!! Especially @unbongwah, thank you so much for taking time and materials to do a live demonstration!! +100 rep! You saved me lots of TP!! Cheers!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by edana View Post
    "As a direct result of the 3 classes limit, a multi-classed character that already has 3 classes, can only select classes from his previous life during reincarnation. So a Cleric/Fighter/Wizard can select any combination of Cleric, Fighter and/or Wizard during reincarnation, but no other class."

    Hope this Wiki information is outdated
    It's not technically outdated in that it was never true. It's a misunderstanding, which itself is current, as seen in this thread.

    The devs have (correctly) stated that you can never have 4 classes during an LR. People have misunderstood that to mean that 3-class builds can't be changed to other classes. But using the techniques unbongwah demonstrated in excruciating detail, you can go from an A/B/C split to an A/Y/Z split if your starting build happens to fall correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by icekinslayer View Post
    Thats a nice demo. Devs said you couldn't have 4 classes though. Weird how that worked out.
    The devs are correct: You can't ever have four classes, and unbongwah's example never does. It always has three.

  10. #10
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icekinslayer View Post
    This is not true. Pally would be the 4th class and not allowed. Don't waste a heart trying this imho.
    you are wrong. this does work, I did it less than a week ago, getting rid of the fighter level at lvl 1 from a PDK character.

    I changed from fighter/rogue/artificer to rogue/ranger /artificer with one heart, removing fighter at lvl 1 and taking rogue instead.

  11. #11
    Community Member selvetran2's Avatar
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    Question:

    Would it be possible to change the first level of a triple-class character to a 4th class,if that lvl was the only one of one of the classes?

    To use Dragavon's example above:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragavon View Post
    you are wrong. this does work, I did it less than a week ago, getting rid of the fighter level at lvl 1 from a PDK character.

    I changed from fighter/rogue/artificer to rogue/ranger /artificer with one heart, removing fighter at lvl 1 and taking rogue instead.
    if he had tried to use a LR+1 heard to change the single fighter lvl(which is also lvl1,for a PDK character) to say,wizard,ending up with a
    wizard 1/rogue x/ artificer y ,would he have succeeded?

    Based on what I read so far in the thread,I am tentatively leaning towards a "yes", but since we are talking about the very first character level I can't be sure.

    Anyone knows?
    Selvetran(TRing) - Oswulf Hammerhand(WF Ftr20/Epic8) - Ralathorn(WF Rog20) - Aerasume(WF Rgr20) - Toreann(WF Brb20/Epic6) - Betamax Recorder(WF Brd20Epic8) - Eaerlann(WF Rog13/Rgr6/Mnk1)

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by selvetran2 View Post
    Question:

    Would it be possible to change the first level of a triple-class character to a 4th class,if that lvl was the only one of one of the classes?
    Yes.

    If your level 1 class is the only level of that class, you can change it to any other class you please.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvetran2 View Post
    Question:

    Would it be possible to change the first level of a triple-class character to a 4th class,if that lvl was the only one of one of the classes?

    To use Dragavon's example above:



    if he had tried to use a LR+1 heard to change the single fighter lvl(which is also lvl1,for a PDK character) to say,wizard,ending up with a
    wizard 1/rogue x/ artificer y ,would he have succeeded?

    Based on what I read so far in the thread,I am tentatively leaning towards a "yes", but since we are talking about the very first character level I can't be sure.

    Anyone knows?
    If your first level was the only level of that class such as a PDK where you leveled all other levels as any other class combo you will be able to switch that 1 fighter level for 1 Wizard level. the trick is you cannot have another Fighter level later on

  14. #14
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    Is there a way to reverse engineer a build? I've got a 3 multi-class TR2 at 25 from 2013 and to see if I can change 2 of the classes. Unfortunately I can't find my build notes.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

  15. #15
    Community Member Draeqo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    Is there a way to reverse engineer a build? I've got a 3 multi-class TR2 at 25 from 2013 and to see if I can change 2 of the classes. Unfortunately I can't find my build notes.
    I don't think so.
    IMHO the only way to see exactly what classes you took at what level is to use a (+0) Lesser Heart of Wood and do a full lesser reincarnation from L1; that will show you which classes you took at what level during that life (because you are not allowed to change and class choices, so at each level you are locked into the choice that you originally made).
    Then register whatever you see as you level up during lesser reincarnation (http://ddowiki.com/page/Lesser_Reincarnation).

    AFAIK each character gets a free (+0) Lesser Heart to be used for full character respeccing (no change in name, gender, alignment AND no change in class choices).
    So if that character still has one in his bank, you may be able to use that (as I described here above) before you acquire whatever +x Lesser Heart of Wood or True Heart that you really need to redo that character.

    If not than I'm not sure whether it is really worth the investment. That is to buy a plain (+0) Lesser Heart of Wood, do the lesser reincarnation in order to determine whether you need a +3, +5 or even +20 or a True Heart; the savings then are that you do not buy a +3 only to find that you really need a +5 or a True heart....
    The cost of a True heart (1495) is smaller than a plain Lesser Heart (895) PLUS the cost of later also needing a +1 (1195) or +3 (1395) let alone a +5 Lesser heart (1595 TP, might as well TR!).
    But that depends of course whether you still have a heart stored that this character can use.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    IIRC, you used to be able to look up info about your chars on the MyDDO site which could help "reverse-engineer" them; but that went away when Turbine shut it down almost 3 years ago. The closest you can come now is talk to Fred; when you try to swap out a feat, he'll tell you what level you took it and what your class split was at that level.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The closest you can come now is talk to Fred; when you try to swap out a feat, he'll tell you what level you took it and what your class split was at that level.
    Thanks! Clever method. Only need to select the "old feat" and it gives the breakdown. Pretty fast.

    Unfortunately doesn't help with prereq (earlier) feats like cleave given great cleave, but it looks like I might have a path to convert my old toon without breaking the three class limit.

    Note: I thought about the LR method. I think I've got one of this floating around as well. Still seemed like a waste.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

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