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  1. #1
    Community Member 32bliss's Avatar
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    Default Add Permanent Death Difficulty to Quests with an Appropriate Reward

    Just to make things more interesting......

    I would love to see the option available on a quest panel where you could select a special permadeath difficulty. This difficulty would be the same or greater than what it is currently elite difficulty with respect to CR of mobs/bosses and DC's. Call it "True Adventurer" or whatever. This would be in effect for the entire party.

    Some of the constraints and risks:
    -No re-entry
    -Entire party must enter quest together. 1 minute timer would lock the quest.
    -No hires
    -items that were purchased in the DDO store while in the quest can only be used anytime after leaving that quest
    -No cakes
    -No Rest of the Eladrin statuettes
    -Astral Shard option to repair broken items is disabled
    -Bravery bonus for this difficulty is +50% but takes twice as long to build as elite bb and only on quests level 10 or above
    -Limited use of Mnemonic Elixirs where every 100SP restored after 1000SP reduces your all your stats by 2 for the duration of the quest even if you shrine later in the quest
    -If you die, a party member can raise you if they are able. If you are dead, and no one else can reach you with the ability to raise you or can carry your stone to a shrine, then you are permanently dead. If this happens, you will not be able to log back in to that character again and your inventory is gone. Anything you had in the bank would go into a temporary withdraw only cache that lasts only 24 hours until it disappears with whatever is left in it at expiration.
    -You have to be alive to receive XP.

    Some of the opportunities and rewards:
    -XP awarded will be 4X elite
    -1.5X the favor amount of elite
    -Drop rates should be at least doubled
    -A chest looted in permadeath difficulty counts half as much towards ransack
    -This (IMO) would foster a much higher degree of collective participation (with groups who choose this option) as individual survival could depend on it. Turbine is working on promoting group play for arguably valid reasons.

    Something else that would make the difficulty even more interesting would be to add champion traps like monster champions. Have the DC's to spot, disable, search a bit more challenging and have a reward like remnants drop from disabling the box. The trap will be pretty nasty if it goes off of course.

    I'm all for increasing rewards for questing, but would love to see it paired with higher stakes. If you lose a toon to permadeath, just roll another one. Turbine could sell tombstones in the DDO store with customizable epitaphs and put them into an enlarged Delra's graveyard for fallen adventurers. They could host Mabar (hopefully) in there again and it would be more intimidating LOL.

    Just an idea...

  2. #2
    Community Member Steve_Howe's Avatar
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    Nope.
    Steve Howe was voted "Best Overall Guitarist" in Guitar Player magazine five years in a row (1977–1981) and in 1981 was the first rock guitar player inducted into the Guitar Player Hall of Fame.

  3. #3
    Community Member 32bliss's Avatar
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    Default Care to say why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Howe View Post
    Nope.
    I understand that you disagree, and am curious as to why. Perhaps you can elaborate in a whole sentence or maybe even two.

  4. #4
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    I understand that you disagree, and am curious as to why. Perhaps you can elaborate in a whole sentence or maybe even two.
    Short answer, nope.

    Long answer, pffft, noooo

  5. #5
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Turbine does not need to spend time developing for play culture options like Permanent Death - This is something that can be self imposed.

    Each of the items on your list can be self imposed. DDO has had a lively Perma Death Culture, if you are looking for groups with established rules you can find them in the forums or Post Looking for a Perma Death Group...

    Every Perma Death Group has different rules so attempting to create set rules and governing them would no doubt alienate one style or another.

    These kind of restrictions are best left to self imposed. Let the developers spend their time with the bug fixes and new content. Let the players govern how they play within the house rules.

  6. #6
    Community Member 32bliss's Avatar
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    Default That's all you have to offe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    Short answer, nope.

    Long answer, pffft, noooo
    I suppose you are unwilling to support you point of view in this discussion.

  7. #7
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    I suppose you are unwilling to support you point of view in this discussion.
    A tiny fraction of the relatively small game population even has this play style. Not worth the investment of dev time.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    I understand that you disagree, and am curious as to why. Perhaps you can elaborate in a whole sentence or maybe even two.
    I don't know, but LAG?

  9. #9
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Exit, pursued by a bear. ~ William Shakespeare (stage direction from The Winter's Tale)

    .59081.

  10. #10
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    I understand that you disagree, and am curious as to why. Perhaps you can elaborate in a whole sentence or maybe even two.
    Mainly that \/

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Turbine does not need to spend time developing for play culture options like Permanent Death - This is something that can be self imposed.
    ...

    Erm, I mean that^^.

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  11. #11
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    no.


    thought about it.

    still no.

    had 10 beers.

    nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo

    woke up with hangover.

    heck no.

    ok hangover is done due to more beer

    hey this might be fun!


    beer wears off.

    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
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    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  12. #12
    Community Member Spekdah_NZ's Avatar
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    There has been a massive shift towards perma-death and having it as an option in PC gaming over the last 5 years. Quite a showing of games that add a "rogue like" element or have rogue like mechanics.

    Even the recent "Pillars of Eternity" has a Trial of Iron mode, once your party dies that is it, the save is deleted and you have to start over.

    What I thought would be more interesting would be to separate difficulty from mode or instance options. Pillars of Eternity does this as does X-com, second wave. Ramping difficulty is linear, generally increasing mobs numbers and stats, although it's always nice if they were smarter. World options or world modes is more a collection of options. Pillars has only two modes, essentially permadeath and an expert mode, which kind of strips the UI and helper like elements.

    But it would be interesting if the quest panel offered a dozen or so switches you could play with. Essentially trading perks for a reward. some examples could be;
    * no shrines for better loot drop %
    * no re entry for +%xp
    * on death quest failure ; gives a free daily dice roll
    * half mob hp or have give player quad damage but take -50% quest XP
    * have mobs buffed with death ward,mantles,globe for ?
    * add environmental effects, i.e. random anti magic, earthquake, comet fall, gives remnants
    * add random champion ambushes for ?

    I am sure people could come up with a whole lot of options and bonuses or penalties for them, I just put up some rough conceptual ones. But essentially the idea would be you could have the options irrespective of the C/N/H/E difficulty. Obviously some of these options could be a bane for some builds rather than others.

  13. #13
    Community Member 32bliss's Avatar
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    Default What about the reward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post

    Each of the items on your list can be self imposed.

    While permadeath can be and is self imposed, there are no rewards for successfully accomplishing this challenge in the game. Some of the stuff on my original risk/constraint list is already part of our raid system. For instance, why do they not let you be able to use cakes or hires in raids? That same mindset, but a bit further, is why I want an extreme difficulty option which includes a real end to a character under certain circumstances.

    It would be nice if it was set in the game mechanics so a player couldn't just decide to "bend the rules" one time. It is a valid point that people have made concerning the development cost of implementing this. Another valid argument is the instability of the game or hardware beyond the control of the player(s) causing in death or even a party wipe. Lag and game crashes should be solved as the highest priority in this game, and certainly before anything like this OP's suggestion.

    DDO to me gets awfully repetitive with questing. The only thing that changes are character builds which are indeed very fun to try out. However, it still gets to a point that you know all the quests so well that the best build kills the mob that I know spawns around the corner of quest X in 2 seconds instead of 3. Monster champions made things a bit more interesting by being randomly placed in dungeons with what appears to be a variation of special abilities. More variation and unpredictability in quests is great. With the current system, you have experienced players with well equipped toons running dungeons they know blindfolded over and over again so they can be more powerful to run them over and over even faster. It is a fun social experience to just play the game and run some quests with good friends or even make new ones too, and that's just fine. Enhanced difficulty with a permadeath option with special reward could make it way more exciting. In my opinion, there really isn't much risk right now. For the longest time, the biggest risk is that you just don't complete the quest.

    What is the risk after you run it the 50th, or 100th time? Granted, you might finally get the drop you were looking for, but enhanced permadeath difficulty should reward you with it much sooner instead of just increasing drop rates so everyone who logs in gets one. Make people earn it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    Lag and game crashes should be solved as the highest priority in this game, and certainly before anything like this OP's suggestion.
    Hi,

    Lag and game crashes will never be fully solved. Even if Turbine were able to perfect their client and completely eliminate lag at their end, which they will never do, there are other sources of both. Our own computers and ISPs can mess things up for us just as easily.

    Right now our endgame for long-term players who aren't altoholics is reincarnation. That means spending hundreds of hours of play getting past lives, filling out destinies and accumulating BTC gear to strengthen our main characters. It may also mean real money spent in the DDO store on tomes, storage space, bags, etc, on those characters.

    Permadeath isn't a really good fit for characters with so much invested in them, especially when death is possible due to random technical problems that no amount of player skill can overcome. There is nothing in the world that would tempt me to risk a multi-life character in a permadeath environment, and I think I might not be alone there. Nor can I see myself investing the time and effort even to level and equip a decently strong first life character for this content.

    I could be wrong about this, but it just doesn't seem like it would be popular enough to be an efficient use of development resources. Creating content which can be used by most of the community again and again rather than something for a few to try, possibly just once or twice, seems by far the better alternative.

    Thanks.

  15. #15
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    1. All that can be self-imposed
    2. Rules of permadeath vary greatly from group to group.
    3. It's bad enough that elite is the standard difficulty making PD a difficulty risks it becoming the standard difficulty and would change the game entirely, I love my permadeath group "The Minions" but I would stop playing DDO if I had to play permadeath all the time
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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  16. #16
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    Just to make things more interesting......

    I would love to see the option available on a quest panel where you could select a special permadeath difficulty. This difficulty would be the same or greater than what it is currently elite difficulty with respect to CR of mobs/bosses and DC's. Call it "True Adventurer" or whatever. This would be in effect for the entire party.

    Some of the constraints and risks:
    -No re-entry i have never had to re-enter a quest
    -Entire party must enter quest together. 1 minute timer would lock the quest. good call, this will help grouping a lot, also has no impact on difficulty...
    -No hires besides the ocaisional lever puller, are those still used?
    -items that were purchased in the DDO store while in the quest can only be used anytime after leaving that quest i have never nor will ever buy&use store items in a quest
    -No cakes never had to use them
    -No Rest of the Eladrin statuettes i had to look these up, i have never seen anyone use them in a party
    -Astral Shard option to repair broken items is disabled thats a thing? most melee's carry a golf cart with weapons these days
    -Bravery bonus for this difficulty is +50% but takes twice as long to build as elite bb and only on quests level 10 or above meh, it's not like lv 10 quests are difficult
    -Limited use of Mnemonic Elixirs where every 100SP restored after 1000SP reduces your all your stats by 2 for the duration of the quest even if you shrine later in the quest
    i don't use those, at all
    -If you die, a party member can raise you if they are able. If you are dead, and no one else can reach you with the ability to raise you or can carry your stone to a shrine, then you are permanently dead. If this happens, you will not be able to log back in to that character again and your inventory is gone. Anything you had in the bank would go into a temporary withdraw only cache that lasts only 24 hours until it disappears with whatever is left in it at expiration. whoot, forced perma death oh wait, what does this benefit? grouping? or does this cause groups to stop playing because 2 members left and don't have alt in range?
    -You have to be alive to receive XP.

    Some of the opportunities and rewards:
    -XP awarded will be 4X elite with tomes, exp potions, voice and ship buffs, heroics will be a joke, first lifers that get caried through like this will end up with undergeared toons realy fast (remember the U13 exp stones?)
    -1.5X the favor amount of elite to do what? get more favor rewards? they haven't even come up a favor reward for the highest tier pdk favor
    -Drop rates should be at least doubled 2X 0.00000005% droprate of a sos shard, whooooootttt!!!!!!!
    -A chest looted in permadeath difficulty counts half as much towards ransack with the amount of exp you suggested, you won't be there long enough to ransack a quest
    -This (IMO) would foster a much higher degree of collective participation (with groups who choose this option) as individual survival could depend on it. Turbine is working on promoting group play for arguably valid reasons. You know what would really help grouping? not forcing players into groups with different playstyles but to bring in new people to fill the gaps that showed up the last 2-3 years

    Something else that would make the difficulty even more interesting would be to add champion traps like monster champions. Have the DC's to spot, disable, search a bit more challenging and have a reward like remnants drop from disabling the box. The trap will be pretty nasty if it goes off of course.

    I'm all for increasing rewards for questing, but would love to see it paired with higher stakes. If you lose a toon to permadeath, just roll another one. Turbine could sell tombstones in the DDO store with customizable epitaphs and put them into an enlarged Delra's graveyard for fallen adventurers. They could host Mabar (hopefully) in there again and it would be more intimidating LOL.

    Just an idea...
    So, being really happy with your sos shard that you picked up after 4 to 5 years of farming only to lose it due to a ill conceived idea? no thank you
    People can already play perma death if they want to.
    if you hadn't payed attention to the game during the last couple of years, the game is going downhill, many players have left and so has a large quantity of the Dev team, asking for
    these needles changes is ...... counter productive to say the least
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    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    Just to make things more interesting......

    I would love to see the option available on a quest panel where you could select a special permadeath difficulty. This difficulty would be the same or greater than what it is currently elite difficulty with respect to CR of mobs/bosses and DC's. Call it "True Adventurer" or whatever. This would be in effect for the entire party.

    Some of the constraints and risks:
    -No re-entry
    -Entire party must enter quest together. 1 minute timer would lock the quest.
    -No hires
    -items that were purchased in the DDO store while in the quest can only be used anytime after leaving that quest
    -No cakes
    -No Rest of the Eladrin statuettes
    -Astral Shard option to repair broken items is disabled
    -Bravery bonus for this difficulty is +50% but takes twice as long to build as elite bb and only on quests level 10 or above
    -Limited use of Mnemonic Elixirs where every 100SP restored after 1000SP reduces your all your stats by 2 for the duration of the quest even if you shrine later in the quest
    -If you die, a party member can raise you if they are able. If you are dead, and no one else can reach you with the ability to raise you or can carry your stone to a shrine, then you are permanently dead. If this happens, you will not be able to log back in to that character again and your inventory is gone. Anything you had in the bank would go into a temporary withdraw only cache that lasts only 24 hours until it disappears with whatever is left in it at expiration.
    -You have to be alive to receive XP.

    Some of the opportunities and rewards:
    -XP awarded will be 4X elite
    -1.5X the favor amount of elite
    -Drop rates should be at least doubled
    -A chest looted in permadeath difficulty counts half as much towards ransack
    -This (IMO) would foster a much higher degree of collective participation (with groups who choose this option) as individual survival could depend on it. Turbine is working on promoting group play for arguably valid reasons.

    Something else that would make the difficulty even more interesting would be to add champion traps like monster champions. Have the DC's to spot, disable, search a bit more challenging and have a reward like remnants drop from disabling the box. The trap will be pretty nasty if it goes off of course.

    I'm all for increasing rewards for questing, but would love to see it paired with higher stakes. If you lose a toon to permadeath, just roll another one. Turbine could sell tombstones in the DDO store with customizable epitaphs and put them into an enlarged Delra's graveyard for fallen adventurers. They could host Mabar (hopefully) in there again and it would be more intimidating LOL.

    Just an idea...
    You have to understand the current game situation. How this would be applied to current game mechanism without ruining any aspect of the game. It can't be too complicated than elite. I think you are thinking too big: like, give it x4 more exp than elite! or drop rates should be doubled! etc. You have to keep it cool and come up with realistic ideas.

    For example: this new difficulty will automatically scale every quests to lv32 (EE), this new difficulty will provide garanteed mythic drop (if any drops at all) etc.

  18. #18
    Community Member hp1055cm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32bliss View Post
    Just to make things more interesting......
    (blah, blah, blah...)
    Just an idea...
    As others have stated this can all be self-imposed.
    In fact other people are already doing it, there is already a forum for it and you just need to post in it and recruit 1-5 other cultists.

  19. #19
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    This is a bad idea. First, as already noted, there are far too few people who play using this ruleset.

    EDIT: After re-reading the first post, it's a bad idea simply because it's not actually perma-death. It just prevents you from being resurrected while in the quest. Mainly, it seems like a request for greater chances at loot, more than anything else.

    Second, how would this work from a technical perspective?
    If you die on a perma-death character, would you immediately be logged out and the character automatically deleted?
    If so, then you can skip all the rest of the questions. If not, then continue reading...


    How are you going to prevent people from getting resurrected or using a cake?
    Why would Turbine prevent people from using a cake (thereby losing that sale)?
    What if I am playing perma-death on only one of my characters?
    When the perma-death character dies, if there is gear on it that I would like to pass to another character, how would I manage that if I cannot resurrect the perma-death character?
    If the perma-death character dies and I am allowed to resurrect it, would I be prevented from simply giving up the perma-death aspect and play it as a regular character?
    If I cannot give up the perma-death aspect and yet can resurrect my character, how would Turbine prevent that character from entering a dungeon? Why would they do this?

    These are just the things that sprang immediately to mind when I read the first post. I am sure there are plenty of other "gotchas" that people can come up with. So, coding for this would not be easy or quick. It also would likely take away a lot of choice from the player and, if not, then it would simply be unenforceable.
    Last edited by Coyopa; 07-15-2015 at 10:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Description: The arcane archer PrE seems to be designed to work only with bows. However, it is possible to attach its effects to other weapons with much greater rate of fire like shurikens (or crossbows).
    Bug.

  20. #20
    2015 DDO Players Council
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    Like others said, no way this would ever happen.

    All this can be self-imposed. And it's a very small % of players that would be interested in this, it's not near worth the dev hours required to create it.

    I can already hear the rage of players calling customer support because a character they spent $50 on equipping with tomes has been permanently deleted by the game because they died and didn't understand this was a permadeath setting. Not a good idea for a game to permanently delete characters people spent real money on.
    Last edited by axel15810; 07-15-2015 at 10:16 AM.

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