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  1. #1
    Community Member cyreme's Avatar
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    Default My first impressions of warlock

    This is my first impression of the new class, for those who are considering buying it. This is just one man's opinion.

    First off: great job devs at making a class that works fairly well within existing power hierarchy (i.e. not OP). It appears to be fairly well balanced so far (hard to tell after just one life).

    Positives:
    1. Warlock has the potential to be a great cc/damage caster, both pure and combo. Combinations with sorc, monk (henshyn), fvs, all look promising.
    2. Martial version of warlock is also possible, especially with bard and paladin.
    3. Warlock completely wrecks in heroic quests, eldrich blasts take a little getting used to (with all the different toggles) but overall very strong, good for solo and everything.
    4. New spells look interesting, I like that there are a lot of SLA's to help with SP problem (see below).

    Critical observations:
    1. Warlock suffers from the same problem that all spellcasters currently do: not enough sp (warlock seems to have wizard sp, rather than favorite soul or sorc). In long quests this will become a serious issue. Blasts help a lot, but it may not be enough in a situation where a lot of cc is constantly needed.
    2. I tested warlock in EE TOEE pt 1, which is currently end game content. Damage was more than adequate, and I loved the ability to make thralls out of champions, who can then clear some mobs for you. However, DC issues remain (as with all casters). This cannot easily be overcome, because DC required for EE content (in say 26+ lvl quests) is too enormous. It is currently very difficult to achieve it. Monster saves are just too high. They save a lot from eldrich blasts on EE. I estimate that nearly 20 DC is needed above what is currently reasonably achievable to make it truly work on EE. This is not warlock-specific, this is generally a caster issue which remains.
    3. Warlock feats are a little confusing with alignment issues (as someone has stated elsewhere on this forum), furthermore, additional saves (will, fort, reflex) are nice, but kinda pointless. It is not difficult to achieve high enough saves with Epic Destinies, gear, etc. Perhaps other feats would have been better?
    4. Amount of skill points allocated to warlock is too low. Same problem as divine classes - can't do much with skill points. High UMD is nice (possible to achieve 70+ endgame), but what about other skills - jump, tumble, move silently (for sneaking around), spellcraft, heal, etc. I hope this gets revisited some time, because it seriously hampers ability to build the class well.

    Overall I see it as souped up wizard class, great cc, adequate damage (for ee content), strong potential for multiclassing. Unfortunately with DC and SP (spell point) issues pure builds still relegated to being a party toon in endgame EE content.
    cyreme-1 (15/5 arti/rogue), completionist/epic completionist trickster, survivalist, master trapper, master crafter, Qualingor (lvl 28 healer cleric), Narukan (lvl 28 barbie), Kaligga (lvl 28 rogue/pally/arti mix), BingCrosby (lvl 28 15/5 arti/rogue), Madbombah (lvl 28 drow lock), Swasher (lvl 25 bard), Mrglass (lvl 23 lock/pally), Tolmar (lvl 25 pally).

  2. #2
    Community Member Pnumbra's Avatar
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    Default Why Brutality?

    I agree with your initial assessment. I just cannot figure out why they created the AP Brutality. It makes no sense to me. What caster is trying to attract/aggro the enemy?
    Last edited by Pnumbra; 06-21-2015 at 10:37 AM.
    The Shadow Sage of Nusemne

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  3. #3
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnumbra View Post
    I agree with your initial assessment. I just cannot figure out why they created the AP Brutality. It makes no sense to me. What caster is trying to attract/aggro the enemy?
    One with 4 levels of paladin or fighter, and 26-28 AP in defender.

  4. #4
    Undermine Zerger Knight_slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pnumbra View Post
    What caster is trying to attract/aggro the enemy?
    A caster that wants to hold agro over barbs and monchers. When I run peaks in groups on my shiradi, I twist the 150% threat from unyealding so theres no chan ce of a barb pulling agro and getting owned.

    The idea of a casting tank is about as old a tactic as this game and its nice to see some enhansments for additional threat in the new trees IMO. Warlock also gets a lot of defence in some trees as well, making it an even more ideal tanking caster class.

  5. #5
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Skill Points are not something we're currently planning to change (for Warlock or others). We realize there are many skills that are beneficial for many characters, but we don't feel you should simply be able to get all of the skills you want. There are many options for increasing skills, such as increasing Intelligence or itemization, that allow for greater variety of build choices.

    DCs and saving throws are something we're trying to keep an eye on in the medium and long term, pretty much always. It's a subjective and somewhat delicate area to tinker in. Different players (and developers) sometimes have different ideas of what the goals with DCs should be, as well as different experiences in actual play.

    We're aware of some issues with Pact requirements and looking into it.

  6. #6
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    i agree that int can be made to give you more skill points. some people just don't use it enough. that is on them imo. as for ap why should they get more? as devs as said before you can't have every goody. then of course for dcs just like anything if you want to be really good then you need to work on them and get every possible angle to boost them. currently im having fun with my warlock and he might not be ee material i dunno. i have my own feelings to what i think is ee ready for my toons but hey i have proved myself wrong when i join others.

  7. #7
    Community Member cyreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Thanks for the feedback.

    Skill Points are not something we're currently planning to change (for Warlock or others). We realize there are many skills that are beneficial for many characters, but we don't feel you should simply be able to get all of the skills you want. There are many options for increasing skills, such as increasing Intelligence or itemization, that allow for greater variety of build choices.

    DCs and saving throws are something we're trying to keep an eye on in the medium and long term, pretty much always. It's a subjective and somewhat delicate area to tinker in. Different players (and developers) sometimes have different ideas of what the goals with DCs should be, as well as different experiences in actual play.

    We're aware of some issues with Pact requirements and looking into it.
    "One does not simply have more skill points" sorry could not help myself. I was comparing warlock with wizard and I am sure you can understand why. Wizards get very good allotment of skill points. My warlock had 16 base int, btw, and the right items and all. Was getting around 4 points per round. Compared to a wizard that would be getting 8+. Just a thought.

    Thank you for answering and yes I realized it is a very subjective experience, which I why I prefaced my post with it. With right build options and best endgame gear I"m sure warlock is gonna do great, especially in skilled hands. However I doubt that a warlock in its current form will be able to blow through TOEE on ee, like many martial builds/classes can. I believe there are 3 components to DDO atm: Build, skill and gear. People who do well in all 3 areas will do well in all classes, and ridiculously well in some. Warlock is not one of "ridiculously well" classes, which may actually be a good thing. For a newer player that lacks understanding in all three areas warlock can be real challenge in at-level EE content. IMHO of course. Once again ty for answering.
    cyreme-1 (15/5 arti/rogue), completionist/epic completionist trickster, survivalist, master trapper, master crafter, Qualingor (lvl 28 healer cleric), Narukan (lvl 28 barbie), Kaligga (lvl 28 rogue/pally/arti mix), BingCrosby (lvl 28 15/5 arti/rogue), Madbombah (lvl 28 drow lock), Swasher (lvl 25 bard), Mrglass (lvl 23 lock/pally), Tolmar (lvl 25 pally).

  8. #8
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Can the targeting bug be fixed?
    When you use chain/focused shape and shoot at a enemy that is in front of you, most of the time it will hit the ceiling, same as with wands.
    Its rather really annoying

  9. #9
    Community Member cyreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    as for ap why should they get more? as devs as said before you can't have every goody.
    I don't think I ever mentioned AP, was only talking about skill points. AP is fine as it is.
    cyreme-1 (15/5 arti/rogue), completionist/epic completionist trickster, survivalist, master trapper, master crafter, Qualingor (lvl 28 healer cleric), Narukan (lvl 28 barbie), Kaligga (lvl 28 rogue/pally/arti mix), BingCrosby (lvl 28 15/5 arti/rogue), Madbombah (lvl 28 drow lock), Swasher (lvl 25 bard), Mrglass (lvl 23 lock/pally), Tolmar (lvl 25 pally).

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Thanks for the feedback.

    Skill Points are not something we're currently planning to change (for Warlock or others). We realize there are many skills that are beneficial for many characters, but we don't feel you should simply be able to get all of the skills you want. There are many options for increasing skills, such as increasing Intelligence or itemization, that allow for greater variety of build choices.

    DCs and saving throws are something we're trying to keep an eye on in the medium and long term, pretty much always. It's a subjective and somewhat delicate area to tinker in. Different players (and developers) sometimes have different ideas of what the goals with DCs should be, as well as different experiences in actual play.

    We're aware of some issues with Pact requirements and looking into it.
    I agree on the skill points for sure, but there are many times I've used completely maximized chars with max DC providing ability, max gear and as far as I can tell helpful enhancements and regular critters will still save - the issue I suspect is the silly creature level.

    This is very much apparent in say ToEE and particularly with all missile shooters. I notice it for example right now as a level 15 maxed out as much as I can Warlock with rampant reflex saves and evasions. Just as I noticed it previously with rune arms.

    I don't expect 95% perfect hits all the time, but it gets frustrating to build semi function characters when trash mobs saves your best effort, let alone a red named boss.

  11. #11
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    My 1st impression: Hey, this is actually more fun then I thought it would be.


    2nd: Man, I wish Eldritch Blast had a volume slider - it's pretty noisy.


    3rd: No, it's really noisy.


    I'm enjoying the class - but in all honesty, I'm playing without sound atm because of the racket.
    “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien
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  12. #12
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    2nd: Man, I wish Eldritch Blast had a volume slider - it's pretty noisy.

    3rd: No, it's really noisy.

    I'm enjoying the class - but in all honesty, I'm playing without sound atm because of the racket.
    Chain have a louder volume than the other shapes, and cone is almost as useful, and almost silent.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  13. #13
    Community Member Pnumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    One with 4 levels of paladin or fighter, and 26-28 AP in defender.
    Ah, so they are pimpin' multi-class right out of the gate. I play pure class characters so I didn't even think about it. Nice feedback.
    The Shadow Sage of Nusemne

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  14. #14
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    We're looking into replacing the sound for Eldritch Chain.

  15. #15
    Community Member Pnumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_slayer View Post
    A caster that wants to hold agro over barbs and monchers. When I run peaks in groups on my shiradi, I twist the 150% threat from unyealding so theres no chan ce of a barb pulling agro and getting owned.

    The idea of a casting tank is about as old a tactic as this game and its nice to see some enhansments for additional threat in the new trees IMO. Warlock also gets a lot of defence in some trees as well, making it an even more ideal tanking caster class.
    I have a hard time seeing a warlock as a CC type, but then again, I don't multi-class so my experience in the art is obvious. I see warlocks (in DDO) as more of an arcane leech than tank. Temp HP is our opium. So far I am really enjoying the class. EN and EH content is more fun than on my retired class the FvS.

    Thanks for the clear explanation on the topic.
    The Shadow Sage of Nusemne

    (LYCEUM OF SHADOW): "ONLY FOOLS CALL THE SHADOW EVIL"

  16. #16
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We're looking into replacing the sound for Eldritch Chain.
    “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    My 1st impression: Hey, this is actually more fun then I thought it would be.


    2nd: Man, I wish Eldritch Blast had a volume slider - it's pretty noisy.


    3rd: No, it's really noisy.


    I'm enjoying the class - but in all honesty, I'm playing without sound atm because of the racket.
    That is exactly why I hated my arty life.

    *plinkplinkplinkplink* reload *plinkplinkplinkplink*

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  18. #18
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    ill give my first impression as a bystander over the past 2 days. I was unimpressed until I just ran with a melee warlock, 17 Warlock/1 fighter, that was melting mobs in Vale quests. small sample size, I know, but it looked good and looked like something I would play. he was using some AOE, what looked like a short cooldown, that took 3/4 of mobs hp and his dps seemed quite good using what looked like a greatsword. I saw my first entangle spell and I know my ranger would be jealous cuz mobs were stickin, but I didn't like that I couldn't see. that entangle spell is very dark black and barely saw the mobs that were in it. don't know how well that build would hold up in epics or if it takes a bunch of levels before the build shines, but I would not buy a Ottos Box or use my +20 heart of wood and actually play one of those.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

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    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  19. #19
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    that entangle spell is very dark black and barely saw the mobs that were in it.
    That was not entangle. Entangle looks like squirmy green grass, and only extends up about a foot off the ground.

    What you were seeing was the new spell Evard's Black Tentacles. And I agree, it's far too hard to see in.
    “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien
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  20. #20
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    That was not entangle. Entangle looks like squirmy green grass, and only extends up about a foot off the ground.

    What you were seeing was the new spell Evard's Black Tentacles. And I agree, it's far too hard to see in.
    ok thnx. I only casually read the Warlock threads so I know little about them. my ranger would like to trade entangle for tentacles, hold the pea soup.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

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