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  1. #1
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    Default A Reminder About Reincarnation

    We want to remind people about something to keep in mind when undergoing a reincarnation (particularly a +Lesser Reincarnation):


    • It is not possible to have more than three classes during a reincarnation, and the reincarnation system remembers how many classes you had prior to the start of the reincarnation process. Therefore, some players may experience issues that prevent them from taking a "fourth" class, particularly if they are a three-class multiclass and want to swap out one of the classes for a different class.


    For example: If you are currently a 10 Ranger/2 Rogue/5 Wizard, and want to use a +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels, you cannot do so unless you undergo a two-step Lesser Reincarnation process. You'll need to use one of your +Hearts of Wood to remove either the Rogue or Wizard class, then use a second +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels. Even a +20 Heart of Wood has this requirement. Thank you!
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  2. #2
    Community Member Zzevel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We want to remind people about something to keep in mind when undergoing a reincarnation (particularly a +Lesser Reincarnation):


    • It is not possible to have more than three classes during a reincarnation, and the reincarnation system remembers how many classes you had prior to the start of the reincarnation process. Therefore, some players may experience issues that prevent them from taking a "fourth" class, particularly if they are a three-class multiclass and want to swap out one of the classes for a different class.


    For example: If you are currently a 10 Ranger/2 Rogue/5 Wizard, and want to use a +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels, you cannot do so unless you undergo a two-step Lesser Reincarnation process. You'll need to use one of your +Hearts of Wood to remove either the Rogue or Wizard class, then use a second +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels. Even a +20 Heart of Wood has this requirement. Thank you!

    There is a MEME here somewhere.. What about Step 3?

    Any plans for more buy 1 get 1 bundle Heart of Wood specials to save players with 3 classes some $? Poorly coded class restrictions (or hearts) are nothing players can change, why do we need to pay for it...?
    Last edited by Zzevel; 06-18-2015 at 04:10 PM.
    Wait, can you hear it? Is it? The worlds smallest vio..nah... nevermind... it can't be, its too small..

  3. #3
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    The confusion on this happens so often you guys really should put this notice in the DDO store if it isn't there already. Have it pop up when a player puts an LR heart into their cart. Lots of players don't ever read the forums.

  4. #4
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    The confusion on this happens so often you guys really should put this notice in the DDO store if it isn't there already. Have it pop up when a player puts an LR heart into their cart. Lots of players don't ever read the forums.
    This is the current text of a Lesser +5:

    NOTE: Level up BEFORE reincarnating. Allows you to re-level your character and pick different feats, skills, spells and stat scores, and change your appearance. You cannot change your name, race, gender, or alignment.
    The +5 lets you switch the class you took at five different levels, but during the leveling process you can never have more than 3 current OR potential classes. The classes you had before reincarnating remain as potential classes until changed and count toward your total allowed classes.


    There are some length restrictions, but if there's suggestions for better ways to word this (while being as concise), we could consider updating it.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    For example: If you are currently a 10 Ranger/2 Rogue/5 Wizard, and want to use a +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels, you cannot do so unless you undergo a two-step Lesser Reincarnation process. You'll need to use one of your +Hearts of Wood to remove either the Rogue or Wizard class, then use a second +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels. Even a +20 Heart of Wood has this requirement. Thank you!
    Largely true, but you can do it all in one pass in certain situations.

    Let's say the 2 rogue levels were taken at levels 1 and 7, for example. You could take ranger at level 1 instead of rogue, then warlock at 7 instead of rogue.

  6. #6
    Community Member laurawilder's Avatar
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    Default I find it funny

    that these days developers need to practically spoon feed the most basic things to some of the players. I guess some think this should be as easy as Candy Crush.

  7. #7
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurawilder View Post
    that these days developers need to practically spoon feed the most basic things to some of the players. I guess some think this should be as easy as Candy Crush.
    you would be shocked how many fail to read or pay attention. i can name tons of people or just point out random people. i still love my atm story. guy asks where the atm was and we pointed. what was worse was a friend made a comment saying you need a you are here map and got pretty descriptive of it. they felt pretty bad. lol.

  8. #8
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This is the current text of a Lesser +5:

    NOTE: Level up BEFORE reincarnating. Allows you to re-level your character and pick different feats, skills, spells and stat scores, and change your appearance. You cannot change your name, race, gender, or alignment.
    The +5 lets you switch the class you took at five different levels, but during the leveling process you can never have more than 3 current OR potential classes. The classes you had before reincarnating remain as potential classes until changed and count toward your total allowed classes.


    There are some length restrictions, but if there's suggestions for better ways to word this (while being as concise), we could consider updating it.
    Would it be so hard to remove the class checks entirely until level 20 is taken? Then put an undo and an error msg at the end of the LR so people can start over if it doesn't meet a legal build?

    Start over
    Undo
    Check for legal classes and build at the end of process.

    Solves all the problems, the LR system is embarrassing from a modern programming and UI conventions viewpoint. Ultima Online doesn't have anything as poorly done as the DDO LR system.
    Last edited by IronClan; 06-18-2015 at 09:33 PM.

  9. #9
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Also remember to LOG OUT once after the LR, if you want to do a TR straight after it.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
    Ghallanda - Ethrayne - Ethryne --- Omnipresence
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  10. #10
    Community Member KomradKillMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Largely true, but you can do it all in one pass in certain situations.

    Let's say the 2 rogue levels were taken at levels 1 and 7, for example. You could take ranger at level 1 instead of rogue, then warlock at 7 instead of rogue.
    This is how I 'beat' the game with artificial barriers too

    Metagaming tricks ftw!
    Last edited by KomradKillMachine; 06-19-2015 at 05:45 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default remember getting the +5 heart with the +20s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzevel View Post
    There is a MEME here somewhere.. What about Step 3?

    Any plans for more buy 1 get 1 bundle Heart of Wood specials to save players with 3 classes some $? Poorly coded class restrictions (or hearts) are nothing players can change, why do we need to pay for it...?
    If you remember, when the +20 were in the store recently you could get a +5 with every one for free. Probably exactly because of this issue (thank you Turbine)!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurawilder View Post
    that these days developers need to practically spoon feed the most basic things to some of the players. I guess some think this should be as easy as Candy Crush.
    The challenge of a game shouldn't be in navigating awkward mechanics. The complex part of a character reincarnation should be the character building choices, and the mechanics of performing a reincarnation should be as easy as Candy Crush (assuming that is easy; I've not actually played it).

    The fact that the three-class limit includes the classes you had before doing a Lesser Reincarnation, even if your partially Reincarnated character only has one or two classes, is hardly a 'basic' thing. Hearts of Wood are expensive, and wasting one would upset most people.

  13. #13
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We want to remind people about something to keep in mind when undergoing a reincarnation (particularly a +Lesser Reincarnation):


    • It is not possible to have more than three classes during a reincarnation, and the reincarnation system remembers how many classes you had prior to the start of the reincarnation process. Therefore, some players may experience issues that prevent them from taking a "fourth" class, particularly if they are a three-class multiclass and want to swap out one of the classes for a different class.


    For example: If you are currently a 10 Ranger/2 Rogue/5 Wizard, and want to use a +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels, you cannot do so unless you undergo a two-step Lesser Reincarnation process. You'll need to use one of your +Hearts of Wood to remove either the Rogue or Wizard class, then use a second +Heart of Wood to swap in Warlock levels. Even a +20 Heart of Wood has this requirement. Thank you!
    Is there any plans to change this, the LR process is actually really finicky with alot of things ESPECIALLY if you have a class with alignment restrictions it can take several LRs to even change a single level.

    I don't know how possible it is but I'd love to see the LR process changed to function more like Ron or LSDs Character builder's it's less fancy than a dialog tree with an NPC but it would allow the "3 class limit and alignment checks" to happen at the end and have a message pop up (or tooltip up) saying cannot be Chaotic because Paladin or Lawful because Bard but ALLOW "invalid" combinations during the creation so a Sorc18/Pally2 can switch to a Sorc18/Bard2 in a single LR.

    It would also auto-populate the "form" with how they leveled last time so they only need to change the things they want to change and press go instead having to relevel from 1 to Level X (ETR are especially annoying) making it less likely to mess up in the process and thus less complaints.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  14. #14
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Default

    Also...

    Relog after every reincarnation. there are several things that seem to go quirky when you don't..

    Levels don't get recognized properly when jumping into quests.. I have caused instance locks in Epic explorer area's because the system thinks I am level 1 even though I have re-levelled.
    Channels cant be rejoined until after you relog.
    failed to get quest flagging recognition on quests I ran after using LR stone without re-logging.

    Other issues I have experienced..
    when doing ER/TR.. without logging in between.. Lost used tomes, Lost Epic Destinies, TR cache items, screwy inventory not put into TR cache..

    When doing ER/LR (to fix what I secrewed up when I did the ER).. lost favor, tomes, epic destinies, skills tomes, ...

    Have had no issues since.. as long as I ensure to relog between any major character change event..
    Jotmon -
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  15. #15
    Community Member ahpook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurawilder View Post
    that these days developers need to practically spoon feed the most basic things to some of the players. I guess some think this should be as easy as Candy Crush.
    I find it funny that the developers would create such a poor LR system that developers need to hold some peoples hand through a convoluted process that should be much much simpler.

    A character planner written by a player has a more straight forward and less error prone interface. The only reason I can think of for the system that was written is that it increases the potential for mistakes and the need for additional hearts of wood to be purchased to correct it.

    They should revamp the LR system to a character planner model. Map out your character and once you are done allow you submit or start over. No more mistakes on level 3 that ruin your character by level 4. No more having to print out the character planner steps and following them precisely to make sure you don't screw it up. They could even allow the data to be exported to XML and re imported allowing future Epic TR's to be much more straightforward. Hearts cost 12$ or more. At that price there should be higher expectations on their usability and ability to cause errors.

  16. #16
    Community Member Zzevel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascoe View Post
    If you remember, when the +20 were in the store recently you could get a +5 with every one for free. Probably exactly because of this issue (thank you Turbine)!

    Yes this is what I was referring to (i.e MORE)... poor coding on shouldn't mean more money out of our pocket to 'work around' the issue.

    RE: Varg the wording on the +5 ... the wording is NOW there to help lessesn issues, BUT why should this be the players problem to begin with? Should we really pay an extra $3,$5, $30... just to do something any person with 1 less class can do for free on a +LR? Is it the players fault that 4 classes in the LR is a problem when you clearly do not restrict us from creating a 3 class multi classed toon? Please allow more 2 for 1 deals, fix the issue or allow GM's to dole out LR+ to players looking to remove a class.
    Wait, can you hear it? Is it? The worlds smallest vio..nah... nevermind... it can't be, its too small..

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahpook View Post
    They should revamp the LR system to a character planner model. Map out your character and once you are done allow you submit or start over. No more mistakes on level 3 that ruin your character by level 4. No more having to print out the character planner steps and following them precisely to make sure you don't screw it up. They could even allow the data to be exported to XML and re imported allowing future Epic TR's to be much more straightforward. Hearts cost 12$ or more. At that price there should be higher expectations on their usability and ability to cause errors.
    Not even just confined to LR.

    I'm swooning at the thought of an in-game character planner, available after you log in to a sever but before you log in to a character. Imagine a fully implemented character planner interface that lets you save as many builds as you please. Then being able to easily attach/detach them to/from your characters at any point.

    LR then becomes a simple matter of "follow the build", but even better is that you could treat your build as a path, to be automatically selected at trainers as you level.

  18. #18
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Not even just confined to LR.

    I'm swooning at the thought of an in-game character planner, available after you log in to a sever but before you log in to a character. Imagine a fully implemented character planner interface that lets you save as many builds as you please. Then being able to easily attach/detach them to/from your characters at any point.

    LR then becomes a simple matter of "follow the build", but even better is that you could treat your build as a path, to be automatically selected at trainers as you level.
    I would love it too - but EllisDee37, how many hours did you spend on coding the lite version? How about updating it?

    That was a lite version, everyone would expect all the bells and whistles - so multiple that by 100?200? plus it would have to be updated every update....

    as much as I wish and drool...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Largely true, but you can do it all in one pass in certain situations.

    Let's say the 2 rogue levels were taken at levels 1 and 7, for example. You could take ranger at level 1 instead of rogue, then warlock at 7 instead of rogue.
    Just reinforcing this.

    You can actually remove your 3rd class and add a new one- you just have to make sure you never have more than 3 at once.

    i.e
    12 Bard 6 Fighter 2 Rogue

    can become

    12 Bard 6 Fighter 2 FVS if those rogue levels were taken at level 18 or earlier


    So, the important thing to know if your level progression if you are trying to work around this system
    Server: Thelanis
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    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  20. #20
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    How about just giving us a form of reincarnation that lets us completely redo our character then gives us the xp to relevel to our existing level?
    Thelanis:
    Annikka (Sorc), Dannikka (F), Jannikka (Rgr)
    Tamikka (Bard), Famikka (Rgr)
    Bellynda (Cl), Mellynda (M)

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