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  1. #1
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Default The "Dodge Everything" Build

    Disclaimer: Most of this is a note to myself so I don't forget I thought of this build whenever I cycle back to a Rogue life, and is not a very detailed guide as it can be. Mostly just a list of notes. Also, thought it'd be cool to share the concept with the community.

    A while ago, I had a cool idea about making a "Dodge Monk", who could have the highest passive dodge possible, at 41%.

    ..Or so I thought.

    Since then, it became more of mainly a Rogue Thief-Acrobat Build which levels in Monk and Fighter.

    Halfling 12 Rogue/4 Fighter/4 Monk is how it's looking right now (Focused in Dex).

    The gimmick isn't to have high dodge, but to high dodge cap and fill in the dodge later.

    Many Enhancements, such as from Fighter Kensei or Halfling Trees can give bonus to the Dodge Cap, as well as Thief-Acrobat Enhancements, as I have recently figured out.

    So I did the calculations and figured the maximum possible dodge cap (As far as I know) is 45%. Sounds a bit better than the dinky 41% I was talking about.

    As a Thief-Acrobat, your main weapons will be Quarterstaves. Sorry, unarmed fans.
    It gives some synergy with four levels in Henshin Mystic tree, so I guess it makes sense to me. Though what I am not sure about is whether Quick Strike from both trees run on independent cooldowns.

    I wish I had time to give everyone the exact specifications on the build, but I'm too lazy to do so.

    I figure I'll just wing it myself when the time comes.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
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    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
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    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
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    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    So lessee if I can calc your Dodge cap right:
    25% base
    +4% Acro cores (Tumbler & Kip Up)
    +5% Spinning Staff Wall
    +3% Imp Mobility (Kensei)
    +3% Agility (Ninja) or Ascetic Training (Kensei)
    +3% Nimble Reaction (halfling)
    +2% Fencing Master
    45% Dodge cap

    Another possibility (mentioned in this thread): rog 12+ / ftr 3+ which trades Spinning Staff Wall for Measure the Foe while keeping Kip Up, which provides +10% max Dodge when maxed out for 50% Dodge cap (100% Dodge while Imp Uncanny Dodge active); in which case you would presumably go for Knife Spec, unless maybe you wanted SWF w/bard splash instead.
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  3. #3
    Community Member ToastyFred's Avatar
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    Uncanny Dodge means the Dodge % is no longer all "passive" like the OP wants.

    Nice try.

  4. #4
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I can hit 47% cap on a pure rogue in light armour (or robes) in the assassin and acrobat tree. I could probably do better by messing around with twists and/or multiclassing , but I haven't really tried. Going all out dodge kinda gimps me in other areas too much to be worth it for me.

    I sit at 40% cap (and 40% dodge with just a few shadow charges) just being in the assassin tree and thats fine by me ATM.

    -JR
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  5. #5
    Community Member brzytki's Avatar
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    There isn't really a point in gimping your character to get max dodge possible. Mixing just rogue and monk will be far better because of Shadow Veil. You'll get a higher miss chance with combined dodge and incorporeality. Moreover some mobs can bypass dodge but there are very very few (if any) who can bypass incorporeal (even incorporeal monsters don't bypass incorporeal miss chance o.O).
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  6. #6
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    So lessee if I can calc your Dodge cap right:
    25% base
    +4% Acro cores (Tumbler & Kip Up)
    +5% Spinning Staff Wall
    +3% Imp Mobility (Kensei)
    +3% Agility (Ninja) or Ascetic Training (Kensei)
    +3% Nimble Reaction (halfling)
    +2% Fencing Master
    45% Dodge cap

    Another possibility (mentioned in this thread): rog 12+ / ftr 3+ which trades Spinning Staff Wall for Measure the Foe while keeping Kip Up, which provides +10% max Dodge when maxed out for 50% Dodge cap (100% Dodge while Imp Uncanny Dodge active); in which case you would presumably go for Knife Spec, unless maybe you wanted SWF w/bard splash instead.
    Yeah, but it's kind of a pain to go into stealth for 5 seconds every time I want that +10% Max Dodge. And then do it again every 10 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToastyFred View Post
    Uncanny Dodge means the Dodge % is no longer all "passive" like the OP wants.

    Nice try.
    I don't remember saying I only wanted passive dodge alone...I only said I thought 41% was the highest passive dodge until I checked Rogue Acrobat tree.

    My original plan was to do a Monk life with 12 Monk/8 Fighter, but then I started to get tempted from the Rogue levels for Uncanny Dodge (And Improved Uncanny Dodge).

    So...Nice try?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    I can hit 47% cap on a pure rogue in light armour (or robes) in the assassin and acrobat tree. I could probably do better by messing around with twists and/or multiclassing , but I haven't really tried. Going all out dodge kinda gimps me in other areas too much to be worth it for me.

    I sit at 40% cap (and 40% dodge with just a few shadow charges) just being in the assassin tree and thats fine by me ATM.

    -JR
    I know I don't really NEED to have the highest dodge possible within my understanding, but it's just a fun idea I've always wanted to try. If it's to the point where it's unplayable, I always have a few looted Lesser Hearts handy.

    Quote Originally Posted by brzytki View Post
    There isn't really a point in gimping your character to get max dodge possible. Mixing just rogue and monk will be far better because of Shadow Veil. You'll get a higher miss chance with combined dodge and incorporeality. Moreover some mobs can bypass dodge but there are very very few (if any) who can bypass incorporeal (even incorporeal monsters don't bypass incorporeal miss chance o.O).
    Of course there's a point! It's HILARIOUS! Plus, I've just always wanted to try it out for fun, not to dominate quests.

    Maybe I should've pointed out this isn't a practical build, but rather, a fun build.
    Last edited by ForgettableNPC; 04-13-2015 at 08:23 PM.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgettableNPC View Post
    Yeah, but it's kind of a pain to go into stealth for 5 seconds every time I want that +10% Max Dodge. And then do it again every 10 seconds.



    I don't remember saying I only wanted passive dodge alone...I only said I thought 41% was the highest passive dodge until I checked Rogue Acrobat tree.

    My original plan was to do a Monk life with 12 Monk/8 Fighter, but then I started to get tempted from the Rogue levels for Uncanny Dodge (And Improved Uncanny Dodge).

    So...Nice try?



    I know I don't really NEED to have the highest dodge possible within my understanding, but it's just a fun idea I've always wanted to try. If it's to the point where it's unplayable, I always have a few looted Lesser Hearts handy.



    Of course there's a point! It's HILARIOUS! Plus, I've just always wanted to try it out for fun, not to dominate quests.

    Maybe I should've pointed out this isn't a practical build, but rather, a fun build.
    The fun thing about going for the Measure the Foe version for 50% dodge is when you use 50% dodge clickies like Improved Uncanny dodge and Primal Travel to get to 100% dodge, becoming literally untouchable. If you keep up Measure the Foe and play in Primal Avatar (twisting in Meld into Darkness), it would be possible to get 100% dodge or more for 59 seconds every 2 minutes.

    There's another dodge bonus that I forgot about: With 4 ranger, you can get Elaborate Parry, which can raise your dodge and dodge cap by up to 30% for up to 20 seconds per minute (though the dodge cap increase only works for robes). And since the Improved Mobility for Fighter can be replicated within the tempest tree, you can go 12 rogue/6 ranger/2 monk for all of the dodge increase. Unfortunately, there's not enough AP to go for the Measure the Foe version and Elaborate Parry while still picking up the rest of the cap increasers.

  8. #8
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwonbush View Post
    The fun thing about going for the Measure the Foe version for 50% dodge is when you use 50% dodge clickies like Improved Uncanny dodge and Primal Travel to get to 100% dodge, becoming literally untouchable. If you keep up Measure the Foe and play in Primal Avatar (twisting in Meld into Darkness), it would be possible to get 100% dodge or more for 59 seconds every 2 minutes.

    There's another dodge bonus that I forgot about: With 4 ranger, you can get Elaborate Parry, which can raise your dodge and dodge cap by up to 30% for up to 20 seconds per minute (though the dodge cap increase only works for robes). And since the Improved Mobility for Fighter can be replicated within the tempest tree, you can go 12 rogue/6 ranger/2 monk for all of the dodge increase. Unfortunately, there's not enough AP to go for the Measure the Foe version and Elaborate Parry while still picking up the rest of the cap increasers.
    Yes, but that's all temporary dodge caps. As with measure the foe, it requires you to sneak do nothing for 5 whole seconds and it only lasts 10 seconds after you break out of stealth, that's a bit inconvenient for my tastes, even if I can get to 100% dodge with Improved Uncanny Dodge/Primal Travel. And yes, the lack of Action Points can also be a problem, I haven't really mapped out the exact AP I'll need in each tree, either.

    My intention was to walk around mainly in Ocean Stance with Grandmaster to buff up my Passive Dodge more, and use Uncanny Dodge in a pinch. And Elaborate Parry may seem nice, but I feel like that'd only be beneficial if I decided to dual-wield, I wanted to focus more in Thief-Acrobat Quarterstaff with this one and mix in a bit of Henshin Mystic (Also want to see if Quick Strike from both trees stack or share cooldowns).

    In the end, it's just an experiment for me to go crazy and have fun, like the Rogue Mechanic Treasure Hunter before Rogue Mechanics were made better with the recent update.

    But thanks for the input.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  9. #9
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    One silly thing you can achieve with all of those temporary dodge boosts: If you use them all simultaneously, it's possible to get up to 280% dodge for around 10 seconds.

  10. #10
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwonbush View Post
    One silly thing you can achieve with all of those temporary dodge boosts: If you use them all simultaneously, it's possible to get up to 280% dodge for around 10 seconds.
    Okay, now that's actually hilarious.

    How would that even work, anyway? Dodge the next two-and-four-fifths-of-a-blow?
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgettableNPC View Post
    Okay, now that's actually hilarious.

    How would that even work, anyway? Dodge the next two-and-four-fifths-of-a-blow?
    I like to imagine it as you deciding to dodge right, then change your mind to left, then decide that right was better after all, all while the attack is coming towards you.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgettableNPC View Post
    Halfling 12 Rogue/4 Fighter/4 Monk is how it's looking right now (Focused in Dex).
    Unless there's a T4 monk ability you really want, I think rog 13 / ftr 4 / monk 3 is better for the extra rog bonus feat. I would go with Defensive Roll & Opportunist, with Epic Reflexes as your lvl 27 feat so you have (hopefully) no-fail Reflex saves (and thus don't need Imp Evasion).
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
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  13. #13
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    One thing to keep in mind with measure the foe:

    You don't have to be in sneak mode for 5 seconds every 10 seconds.

    Once you ALREADY have the full bonus and drop out of sneak mode, you only have to drop into sneak mode for 1 second or less to maintain it, every 10 seconds.

    It takes practice, but once you get the hang of it, its not too bad. This is one of those things that, while being a PIA to maintain, its worth it. And makes a noticeable difference. And has other benefits.
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  14. #14
    Self-Appointed Coin Lord of the Seas ForgettableNPC's Avatar
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    Hmm, turns out the Quick Strike from Rogue Acrobat and Henshin Mystic do share cooldowns. Shame.

    I guess I'll just go 17 Rogue/3 Fighter. 16 Rogue/4 Fighter if I need an extra Feat.
    Last edited by ForgettableNPC; 05-17-2015 at 03:39 AM.
    Just a random, forgettable NPC doing things an NPC does
    Things that NPCs do include, but are not limited to:

    Having a gold goblet over my head to indicate availability of a quest
    Having a catchphrase that never really catches on
    Having various rewards that are generally not worth the trouble
    Wandering around randomly
    Giving out obvious information if it wasn't obvious enough
    Repeating the same lines over and over again
    Repeating the same lines over and over again

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