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  1. #1
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Default Devs: is update 25 really coming out the 6th of April?

    Hello Dev Team,


    This HERE seems to suggest that the update will be coming out the 6th of April. Is this true?

    I have to say that I am very disappointed if that is the case. There has been very little back and forth in Lama, the rogue pass is an universal disappointment (just need to briefly read the lama threads), loot has not been changed very much despite people pointing some obvious shortcomings (see for instance some properties of the named loot). As an example, I have been particularly active in the TA threads and I can testify that there has been zero replies to all the lama feedback people have been providing.

    We like that you are more active in replying to us, but engaging the community means more than just talking to us. It means listening to us. You might not agree on the suggestions some particular individuals post, but when almost every single poster coincides that the update to the rogue class (including ALL the trees: assassin, mechanic and TA) is insufficient and not exciting, it means something.

  2. #2

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    Yes, U25: Reign of Elemental Evil Release Date Of April 6th is correct..
    "Denn Die Toten Reiten Schnell"
    "For The Dead Travel Fast"

  3. #3
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draculetta View Post
    Yes, U25: Reign of Elemental Evil Release Date Of April 6th is correct..
    No, it will come out tomorrow and the release notes will follow later (just to match what they've actually have pushed out of the door.)

  4. #4
    Community Member ToastyFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draculetta View Post
    Yes, U25: Reign of Elemental Evil Release Date Of April 6th is correct..
    How do you know?

    I've seen no OFFICIAL announcement to this effect. The page linked in the OP merely implies that's the case.

  5. #5
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    I have less time to get to my 20x raid counts that I previously thought if this is true.

    It's the beginning of the quarter which means there is less impact if the release is delayed a bit. It seems they are still tinkering with things too much to release on Monday.
    DC Warlock Reaper Build (U48)
    Max DC Illusionist Reaper Build (U48)

  6. #6
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    I cannot remember release notes ever coming before the actual release. They almost always (and I really want to say always without the qualifier) come the day of the release.

    I do think OP makes a valid point, which is that it seems the developers regularly ignore feedback and do whatever they want to do. The last time this got pointed out a player got banned for it. And, while Turbine did end up greatly revamping their plans it was a much greater struggle than it should have been to get them to listen to the players.

    If player feedback is uniformly negative as the OP suggests then that implies Turbine does not really respect the players. OTOH, OP has a tendency to exaggerate so maybe it isn't the case at all. And maybe changes have been made as actually happened with the barbarian enhancements.

    Maybe pigs fly....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    There has been very little back and forth in Lama,
    More than in the past.
    the rogue pass is an universal disappointment
    Cite please.
    (just need to briefly read the lama threads)
    Considering how such a small number of the player base uses the forums, let alone gets on Lam and then discusses things specifically on the Lam sub-forums, that is not a sufficient citation.
    I can testify that there has been zero replies to all the lama feedback people have been providing.
    And? You say this as though it means something. It does not. There is no obligation of reply, and forum users should have no expectation of reply. Also, there have been replies. Just not on the Lam thread. Which is good. Because here's something you may not realize: Lam is not a testing server. It's a preview server. Once stuff hits Lam, there is a very high chance it will go live in that format, or only barely tweaked. So it's better to have these conversations before they get to the Lam forums.

    it means something.
    Yes, it does. That an incredibly tiny percentage of the player base has something to say on the subject (and yes, that includes me, but I'm not presumptuous enough to think we're important).

  8. #8
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    Considering how such a small number of the player base uses the forums, let alone gets on Lam and then discusses things specifically on the Lam sub-forums, that is not a sufficient citation.
    That's a very weak point and you know it. People who care to post have in an overwhelming majority said that the pass is insufficient. This includes very veteran players of the different roguish archetypes. This is the best indication of the feelings of the player base for a lack of better surveys.

    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    And? You say this as though it means something. It does not. There is no obligation of reply, and forum users should have no expectation of reply. Also, there have been replies. Just not on the Lam thread. Which is good. Because here's something you may not realize: Lam is not a testing server. It's a preview server. Once stuff hits Lam, there is a very high chance it will go live in that format, or only barely tweaked. So it's better to have these conversations before they get to the Lam forums.
    Conversations that have resulted in very minor changes. Their argument is that they wanted to wait for us to actually play the classes before we carried on with the conversations. Well, plenty of people did. Now what? Where those just empty words?

    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    That an incredibly tiny percentage of the player base has something to say on the subject (and yes, that includes me, but I'm not presumptuous enough to think we're important).
    Whether we are important it is not for you to tell. Many people do not post in the forums but read them. I know turbine is actively trying to build an image of dialogue with the player base. Let's see if this image is a reality or not.

  9. #9
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Hello Dev Team,


    This HERE seems to suggest that the update will be coming out the 6th of April. Is this true?

    I have to say that I am very disappointed if that is the case. There has been very little back and forth in Lama, the rogue pass is an universal disappointment (just need to briefly read the lama threads), loot has not been changed very much despite people pointing some obvious shortcomings (see for instance some properties of the named loot). As an example, I have been particularly active in the TA threads and I can testify that there has been zero replies to all the lama feedback people have been providing.

    We like that you are more active in replying to us, but engaging the community means more than just talking to us. It means listening to us. You might not agree on the suggestions some particular individuals post, but when almost every single poster coincides that the update to the rogue class (including ALL the trees: assassin, mechanic and TA) is insufficient and not exciting, it means something.
    I think it's questionable how you attempt to participate in llamania by posting about it in the live forums endlessly.

    Now I dont know how much you've participated in llamaland in the past but, this is typical for loot, we see early loot, give our feedback & little or no changes are made.

    Llama normally goes thru 3 or 4 itteratons.

  10. #10
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    That's a very weak point and you know it. People who care to post have in an overwhelming majority said that the pass is insufficient. This includes very veteran players of the different roguish archetypes. This is the best indication of the feelings of the player base for a lack of better surveys.


    Conversations that have resulted in very minor changes. Their argument is that they wanted to wait for us to actually play the classes before we carried on with the conversations. Well, plenty of people did. Now what? Where those just empty words?
    They broke down & fixed the repeater reload losing active shots that's been a problem since ~U11. ( just one change based on feedback)

    Are these just empty words?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    They broke down & fixed the repeater reload losing active shots that's been a problem since ~U11. ( just one change based on feedback)
    And increased the stacking of Thieves' Tools to 1000 based on a comment posted to the forums. Less of an impact, I know, but an important quality of life improvement for anyone who traps

  12. #12
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_Ryu View Post
    And increased the stacking of Thieves' Tools to 1000 based on a comment posted to the forums. Less of an impact, I know, but an important quality of life improvement for anyone who traps
    Quality of life and bug fixing? Completely insufficient for a rogue pass. I am not the only one who says that (virtually everyone in Lama).

  13. #13
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Quality of life and bug fixing? Completely insufficient for a rogue pass. I am not the only one who says that (virtually everyone in Lama).
    Most recent feedback is possative

    I wonder did you play one on Llamania or Napkin math?

  14. #14
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    Spell crits included in the spell power mouse over...

  15. #15
    Community Member mudfud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastyFred View Post
    How do you know?

    I've seen no OFFICIAL announcement to this effect. The page linked in the OP merely implies that's the case.
    It was posted yesterday on Twitter and Facebook, the official ddo page. While it does only say release notes will be released april 6th, release notes are released day of update.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Hello Dev Team,


    This HERE seems to suggest that the update will be coming out the 6th of April. Is this true?

    I have to say that I am very disappointed if that is the case. There has been very little back and forth in Lama, the rogue pass is an universal disappointment (just need to briefly read the lama threads), loot has not been changed very much despite people pointing some obvious shortcomings (see for instance some properties of the named loot). As an example, I have been particularly active in the TA threads and I can testify that there has been zero replies to all the lama feedback people have been providing.

    We like that you are more active in replying to us, but engaging the community means more than just talking to us. It means listening to us. You might not agree on the suggestions some particular individuals post, but when almost every single poster coincides that the update to the rogue class (including ALL the trees: assassin, mechanic and TA) is insufficient and not exciting, it means something.
    Long ago a LOTRO dev stated, when they release things to the public they already know what they are doing and planning and how it is being released. The only reason it is released is for show. Sure they allow people to post there critism and such, but there is absolutely nothing they will change if they had no intention to change it already. I'll find that post one day when I have time, but since that person also worked on ddo, I'm guessing they do the same thing, same company.

  16. #16
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    the rogue pass is an universal disappointment
    This is false.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  17. #17
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    That's a very weak point and you know it. People who care to post have in an overwhelming majority said that the pass is insufficient. This includes very veteran players of the different roguish archetypes. This is the best indication of the feelings of the player base for a lack of better surveys.


    Conversations that have resulted in very minor changes. Their argument is that they wanted to wait for us to actually play the classes before we carried on with the conversations. Well, plenty of people did. Now what? Where those just empty words?


    Whether we are important it is not for you to tell. Many people do not post in the forums but read them. I know turbine is actively trying to build an image of dialogue with the player base. Let's see if this image is a reality or not.
    Again I don't agree with Gronker very often but he is correct here...

    Lammania is a testing server for players to test. They give feedback. Turbine then implements what they feel is needed.

    The forums are NOT the only place for feedback as I have several players in my guild that play lammania every time it opens and they LIKE the rogue changes and are excited to see them go live. I am neutral on them myself although I might pull out sireth again and try out a TA again.

    The point is...just because YOU and a few others think things need changed does not in ANY way mean Turbine should change it. If they changed everything that people wanted changed the game would change hourly and rogues would be the most OP class in the game.

    Turbine will make the changes they think are needed and it will hit live. It may or may not work abd then they will do an update if needed. Is this perfect? Nope but with such a small community of testers and a smaller team of Dev's it is what we get.

    I love how the players think they should control how classes are designed =)

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  18. #18
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sehenry03 View Post
    The forums are NOT the only place for feedback as I have several players in my guild that play lammania every time it opens and they LIKE the rogue changes and are excited to see them go live
    Oh I didn't know this. I guess all is good then.

  19. #19
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    More than in the past.
    Cite please.
    Considering how such a small number of the player base uses the forums, let alone gets on Lam and then discusses things specifically on the Lam sub-forums, that is not a sufficient citation.
    And? You say this as though it means something. It does not. There is no obligation of reply, and forum users should have no expectation of reply. Also, there have been replies. Just not on the Lam thread. Which is good. Because here's something you may not realize: Lam is not a testing server. It's a preview server. Once stuff hits Lam, there is a very high chance it will go live in that format, or only barely tweaked. So it's better to have these conversations before they get to the Lam forums.

    Yes, it does. That an incredibly tiny percentage of the player base has something to say on the subject (and yes, that includes me, but I'm not presumptuous enough to think we're important).
    some very well spoken thoughts, which I tend to agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    I think it's questionable how you attempt to participate in llamania by posting about it in the live forums endlessly.

    Now I dont know how much you've participated in llamaland in the past but, this is typical for loot, we see early loot, give our feedback & little or no changes are made.

    Llama normally goes thru 3 or 4 itteratons.
    *chuckle* excellent point.

    Fast Lamannia cycle because of all the Kobold Kaos the insued after all those control weather wand (Create Blizzard) Kobold used.

    Am confident that they are already pushing some things back to patch 1 because of those 10 or so snow days.

    They have listened - low level orb!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    They broke down & fixed the repeater reload losing active shots that's been a problem since ~U11. ( just one change based on feedback)

    Are these just empty words?
    and this was from a string of what 50?? or so dev posts (and Producer's Posts!!!) on subject. I watched and saw much back-and-forth that lead to changes (and better understanding)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_Ryu View Post
    And increased the stacking of Thieves' Tools to 1000 based on a comment posted to the forums. Less of an impact, I know, but an important quality of life improvement for anyone who traps
    This alone is awesome. Wonder if they also did repair kits and heal kits.... Now instead of 5 slots, can use 1.. and frees up probably 40-50 inventory slots across all toons just for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    Most recent feedback is possative

    I wonder did you play one on Llamania or Napkin math?
    most has been positive - and very constructive communication both ways.

    *chuckle* napkin math... been awhile since I heard that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Spell crits included in the spell power mouse over...
    AGAIN - thank you for this! After Barbarian, will be doing Sorc and then Cleric past lives... this is such a quality of life improvement for those lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    This is false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sehenry03 View Post
    Again I don't agree with Gronker very often but he is correct here...

    Lammania is a testing server for players to test. They give feedback. Turbine then implements what they feel is needed.

    The forums are NOT the only place for feedback as I have several players in my guild that play lammania every time it opens and they LIKE the rogue changes and are excited to see them go live. I am neutral on them myself although I might pull out sireth again and try out a TA again.

    The point is...just because YOU and a few others think things need changed does not in ANY way mean Turbine should change it. If they changed everything that people wanted changed the game would change hourly and rogues would be the most OP class in the game.

    Turbine will make the changes they think are needed and it will hit live. It may or may not work abd then they will do an update if needed. Is this perfect? Nope but with such a small community of testers and a smaller team of Dev's it is what we get.

    I love how the players think they should control how classes are designed =)
    Better to use a scalpel than a wrecking ball.... small, controlled changes are more effective in affecting change, and require much less resources to execute.

    All and All - I and my entire guild is looking forward to U25 and ToEE! And then once it is live - we only have maybe 3 months before epic shavarath! :P

  20. #20
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uurlockygmeov View Post
    all and all - i and my entire guild is looking forward to u25 and toee! And then once it is live - we only have maybe 3 months before epic shavarath!
    best statement evah!!!!!!!!!

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