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  1. #1
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    Default Dwarven 2 kopesh wielding heavy armor build

    Is Power Critical worth it? It looked nice, but looking at older articles, it seems it isn't. What feats would be good for this Dwarven Fighter Ranger who loves kopesh?

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xathris View Post
    Is Power Critical worth it?
    Relative to what? +2 Seeker is more useful than, say, +1 to-hit from Superior Weapon Focus, but that's not saying much. Without knowing what the rest of your build is like, it's impossible to say.

  3. #3
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    Power critical will give you a lot of bang for the buck. Presuming you have the feats available it is worth having.

    The point about seeker is valid. However, seeker isn't a feat option and power critical is -- so it is a bit of apples and oranges. Power critical is effectively equal to seeker +2. However it is not a seeker bonus. That means it stacks with seeker items -- at least this is how it did work. It is possible that it has changed, but I don't think so.

    So a character with power critical and seeker +2 will do more damage than one with only power critical or only seeker +2.

    Of course, seeker values can be pretty high.

    IMO it is a feat that you'll notice improving your damage output -- so worth having if you can afford the feat slot.

  4. #4
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    If you play epic, any + survivability, or 2ndary ranged option is probably better.

    Hard to tell really without including your build idea.

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    Agree that it is hard to tell without knowing the build. However, I will note that my son did not take Power Critical until he'd reached epic levels (took it at L24 IIRC) and he noticed an immediate increase in damage output.

    I don't recall if it is limited to melee combat but I think it also applies to thrown weapons. If so then it might be a ranged option choice.

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    Excuse my ignorance, by build do you mean feats?

    He is Fighter 4/Ranger 2 currently.

    Feats: (besides givens) Weapon Proficiency Kopesh, Weapon Focus and Specialization: Slashing, Over-sized Two Weapon Fighting, Power Critical, Precision

    Enhancements: Dwarven Armor Mastery (I have high Dex) some Dwarven toughness, the rest in Tempest tree
    Last edited by Xathris; 01-20-2015 at 12:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    Build generally means race, class(es) and -- if multiclass -- how many levels of each at level cap, starting stats, expected level cap stats, feat choices, enhancement choices, epic destiny choices (including twists), and (sometimes) skill choices. For all of these things people want to know what you have right now and what you are planning to get as you gain additional levels.

    The info you gave is enough to get a rough idea. Most people would suggest Power Attack ahead of Power Critical. Most would also suggest dropping OTWF. At your level and early in the game still OTWF might have some value. I'd probably have taken PA instead of PC and then replaced OTWF with PC as I hit epic levels.

    Some will question why khopesh when you are a dwarf. Eats a feat for exotic weapon and dwarven axe is more than competitive with khopesh on a dwarf character. I'm guessing it has to do with the ability to get a bit more AC with dwarven armor enhancements -- and maybe a preference for dwarves as a character race.

    Ignoring that side of it and arguments for why daxe would have been better, functionally you are going to be reasonably successful at your current level on most content. That means I would leave things alone with the character and just focus on what additional feats you want by L20.

    A basic reality of this game is that pretty much anything can do well in heroic content. The trick is to prepare for epic content. That means having the right combo of feats and enhancements when you reach level 20. The order in which those are taken doesn't really matter as long as it is all in place when you get there.

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xathris View Post
    Excuse my ignorance, by build do you mean feats?
    When I say "build," I mean what's your plan for getting from lvl 1 to lvl 20+.

    A build shows what your final class split will be, as well as which feats, enhancements, etc. you plan to take; it also shows what resources you have or expect to have, in particular any stat tomes.

    For example:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 28 True Neutral Dwarf Female
    (12 Fighter \ 6 Ranger \ 2 Cleric \ 8 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 536
    Spell Points: 205 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 21
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
    Strength             16                    28
    Dexterity            14                    17
    Constitution         16                    21
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             14                    16
    
    Tomes Used
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
    +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 23
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 7 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    
    
    Level 8 (Cleric)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Power Surge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Exotic Weapon Mastery (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Strength (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - The Growing Storm (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - The Growing Storm (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - The Growing Storm (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
    Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
    Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
    
    
    Level 21 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 23 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 24 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness
    
    
    Level 25 (Epic)
    
    
    Level 26 (Epic)
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 27 (Epic)
    Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed
    
    
    Level 28 (Epic)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: First Blood
    You don't need to follow my plan, but you ought to follow a plan for leveling. Remember: proper planing prevents poor performance!

    "Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan."
    - Adm. Painter, "The Hunt for Red October"

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    Thanks for all the info. I have a lot of research to do. I don't even know what epic is. I plan on sticking to fighter/ranger, thinking more ranger than fighter eventually. I chosen kopesh because my research came up as it being the most effective weapon out there, for anyone. I chose dwarf because I wanted to be armored w/dex. I'll definitely research all the enhancement you listed, and I was thinking of taking those feats more or less.

    Has there been any definitive study of a kopesh vs. drwarven axe for a dwarf? There are some nice dwarf axe enhancements, but I was thinking I wouldn't take many more of them.

    I notice you chose no dwarves enhancements. Are the others that much better?
    Last edited by Xathris; 01-21-2015 at 07:39 PM.

  10. #10
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    I'm pretty sure unbongwah did not take any dwarven enhancements because of the decision to use khopesh. Dwarven axe enhancements won't improve the damage done by khopesh so taking them would just be wasted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl_Two View Post
    I'm pretty sure unbongwah did not take any dwarven enhancements because of the decision to use khopesh. Dwarven axe enhancements won't improve the damage done by khopesh so taking them would just be wasted.
    Sorry, I meant Dwarven toughness, Constitution and Armor Mastery.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xathris View Post
    I don't even know what epic is.
    Epic levels are lvls 21-28; unlike heroic lvls (1-20), you do not take any classes, everyone receives the same generic bonuses, as well as access to epic-exclusive feats. If you have Epic Destinies (EDs) unlocked (bundled w/MotU expansion or purchased separately), you use them to further improve your character abilities.
    I plan on sticking to fighter/ranger, thinking more ranger than fighter eventually.
    In that case, I would probably go rgr 12 / ftr 8; that gains you access to tier-5 Kensei enhancements, namely Keen Edge (+1 crit range). Alternatively, if you plan to go for, say, tier-5 Tempest (Dance of Death is pretty sweet), you can do something like rgr 12 / ftr 6 / cleric 2 instead; basically reversing the rgr / ftr split on my first build. Or rgr 15 / ftr 4 / cleric 1. [If you dumped CHA, the cleric splash is less useful, so you may want to consider something else.]
    I chosen kopesh because my research came up as it being the most effective weapon out there, for anyone.
    All things being equal, khopeshes are still the best overall choice for TWF builds due to their base 19-20/x3 crit spec. However, all things are not always equal, because there are a lot of variables at play, including named weapons with special properties or dmg bonuses (e.g., Deathnip is better than any heroic khopesh due largely to its 19-20/x4 crit spec); class enhancements which boost specific weapon types (e.g., TWF Assassins can take Knife Specialization, which makes daggers and kukris better than khopeshes); and ED abilities which favor specific weapon types (e.g., Legendary Dreadnought has some nice perks for axes and hammers, which mesh well with dwarven racial weapon bonuses).

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    Thanks, Unbongwah. Do you think I should ditch the kopesh build, in favor of dwarves axes? Or is it a wash? Sadly, I have no charisma, but I do understand the cleric boost would be nice. Would it make sense to take 1 lvl of paladin, just for the Aura? I was planning on going for Dance of Death. I take it you can't get both Capstone enhancements (Kensai and Tempest)?


    p.s. That Deathnip is incredible!
    Last edited by Xathris; 01-22-2015 at 10:51 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    [URL="http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_levels"]

    In that case, I would probably go rgr 12 / ftr 8; that gains you access to tier-5 Kensei enhancements, namely Keen Edge (+1 crit range). Alternatively, if you plan to go for, say, tier-5 Tempest (Dance of Death is pretty sweet), you can do something like rgr 12 / ftr 6 / cleric 2 instead; basically reversing the rgr / ftr split on my first build. Or rgr 15 / ftr 4 / cleric 1. [If you dumped CHA, the cleric splash is less useful, so you may want to consider something else.]
    Unbongwah, thanks for the build. I am planing on doing most of the feats you listed, I guess I'm just doing a different order. I have no Charisma at all, so I guess I won't do Cleric. I think I will go Ranger 12/ftr 8. I want Dance of Death. Could I get Keen Edge also?

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xathris View Post
    I want Dance of Death. Could I get Keen Edge also?
    No: you're only permitted to take tier-5 enhancements from one PrE; so taking Dance of Death would lock out Keen Edge and vice versa.

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