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  1. #1
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    Default Could use some input on Shiradi Sorcs

    And yes, I saw and read the Toasting Toaster and Shiradi WF Sorc threads by Bloodskittle and Atomicmew.

    I'm about ready to ER, but I don't want to TR before I've unlocked the Harper tree, but to get that I'm waiting for adventure packs to go on sale so I can get Haunted Halls. I figured I could use the time to get my 2nd and 3rd Colours of the Queen PLs done, I've got enough Karma in the Primal sphere to get the 2nd right off the bat, and then it'd be running pretty much whatever's up in the lfm tab. Soloing EE is not required.

    Couple of things, though....

    I'm playing a meatbag, Drow to be precise, rather than a robot. And we're talking about a pure sorc, with no FvS, pally, or deep wizard splashes.


    About the things I could use some input on:

    From what I've understood, the Shiradi procs are affected by spell power, so I'll want to be running with empower and maximise always on, and switch it off manually for spells, correct?

    I was playing epic levels in Draconic Incarnation and Magister, heavily invested in high spell DCs. Going Shiradi means I'll be using a lot of spells that hit often rather than hard, and many of those won't allow for a save anyway. That potentially frees up 2 heroic feats (Evo focus, greater evo focus) and 1 epic feat (epic evo focus, but you'd probably guessed that already). I figure I'll be keeping the wizard PL feat I took because 10 missiles that can each cause Shiradi procs is too good to pass up.
    Quicken is probably the first thing everyone will think of recommending, but honestly, I haven't really felt the lack of it so far. Sure, Quickened Cocoon would be nice, but perhaps there's some other possibility. If so, I'd love to hear it.
    As for the 2nd feat I'm thinking Toughness and then Epic Toughness, the lack of HP is something I've felt far more keenly.

    In the Shiradi ED, Prism looks like THE stance to be in. Is that correct or am I missing something blindingly obvious? Let's not even talk about Nerve Venom, I'll be putting 3 points in that. Also: Is Rain of Arrows any good?

    About the spell selection... Firewall or Ice Storm? And in a bit more detail: Is it viable to go fire savant for Scorching Ray and Meteor Swarm, but use Ice Storm for the AoE to trigger procs, or am I better off using Firewall/Incendiary Cloud even with the lower DCs?

  2. #2
    Community Member scottmike0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    And yes, I saw and read the Toasting Toaster and Shiradi WF Sorc threads by Bloodskittle and Atomicmew.

    I'm about ready to ER, but I don't want to TR before I've unlocked the Harper tree, but to get that I'm waiting for adventure packs to go on sale so I can get Haunted Halls. I figured I could use the time to get my 2nd and 3rd Colours of the Queen PLs done, I've got enough Karma in the Primal sphere to get the 2nd right off the bat, and then it'd be running pretty much whatever's up in the lfm tab. Soloing EE is not required.

    Couple of things, though....

    I'm playing a meatbag, Drow to be precise, rather than a robot. And we're talking about a pure sorc, with no FvS, pally, or deep wizard splashes.


    About the things I could use some input on:

    From what I've understood, the Shiradi procs are affected by spell power, so I'll want to be running with empower and maximise always on, and switch it off manually for spells, correct?

    I was playing epic levels in Draconic Incarnation and Magister, heavily invested in high spell DCs. Going Shiradi means I'll be using a lot of spells that hit often rather than hard, and many of those won't allow for a save anyway. That potentially frees up 2 heroic feats (Evo focus, greater evo focus) and 1 epic feat (epic evo focus, but you'd probably guessed that already). I figure I'll be keeping the wizard PL feat I took because 10 missiles that can each cause Shiradi procs is too good to pass up.
    Quicken is probably the first thing everyone will think of recommending, but honestly, I haven't really felt the lack of it so far. Sure, Quickened Cocoon would be nice, but perhaps there's some other possibility. If so, I'd love to hear it.
    As for the 2nd feat I'm thinking Toughness and then Epic Toughness, the lack of HP is something I've felt far more keenly.

    In the Shiradi ED, Prism looks like THE stance to be in. Is that correct or am I missing something blindingly obvious? Let's not even talk about Nerve Venom, I'll be putting 3 points in that. Also: Is Rain of Arrows any good?

    About the spell selection... Firewall or Ice Storm? And in a bit more detail: Is it viable to go fire savant for Scorching Ray and Meteor Swarm, but use Ice Storm for the AoE to trigger procs, or am I better off using Firewall/Incendiary Cloud even with the lower DCs?
    I believe you need evocation to be a prestige as a sorc

  3. #3
    Community Member moriedhel's Avatar
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    Yes to Prism, Nerve venom, good to take the heal over time from Shiradi too especially if you are fleshy. No need for anything beyond basic evo focus, maybe not even that, instead I suggest you get armor feats and invest in removing arcane spell failure. Mental toughness and toughness are cool too.

    Quicken is not as useful if you don't use repair? Maybe get empower healing if you are fleshy for cocoon if it works (don't remember). Get all the MM spells (there are 3) and that's your rotation more or less, you can put down some AOE too, I usually just put incendiary cloud because of the blind, don't bother with rest.

    Source: WF fire savant with /2 fvs splash for the infinite spell points. Dunno if fire savant is best without the fvs splash btw.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by moriedhel View Post
    Maybe get empower healing if you are fleshy for cocoon if it works (don't remember).
    Op is a pure sorc so won't be able to get Empower Healing Feat.
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  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    From what I've understood, the Shiradi procs are affected by spell power, so I'll want to be running with empower and maximise always on, and switch it off manually for spells, correct?
    For your SLAs, when you map them to your toolbars, rt-click the icons and set all of your metamagics to "always on."
    As for the 2nd feat I'm thinking Toughness and then Epic Toughness, the lack of HP is something I've felt far more keenly.
    eToughness req's base CON 21; doable on a drow if you've got a +5 or 6 CON tome, but otherwise costs too many build pts, IMHO.
    About the spell selection... Firewall or Ice Storm? And in a bit more detail: Is it viable to go fire savant for Scorching Ray and Meteor Swarm, but use Ice Storm for the AoE to trigger procs, or am I better off using Firewall/Incendiary Cloud even with the lower DCs?
    IIUC, Shiradi procs only occur on the first tic of Ice Storm, so it's not a great spell for Shiradi; whereas procs can occur on every tick of Firewall.
    Quote Originally Posted by scottmike0 View Post
    I believe you need evocation to be a prestige as a sorc
    You do not need any spell focus feats to take any of the Savant PrEs; Turbine got rid of that pre-req with the U19 overhaul.

    Out of curiosity, do any fleshie Shiradi sorcs Twist Consecration+Sacred Ground? You should have decent dmg from Consecration on a Fire Savant; I'm also wondering if it can cause Shiradi procs. And Sacred Ground provides good healing; that+Cocoon+Healing Spring should meet most of your self-healing needs.
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  6. #6
    Community Member moriedhel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Op is a pure sorc so won't be able to get Empower Healing Feat.
    Indeed you are right, forgot that feat has a requirement.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    From what I've understood, the Shiradi procs are affected by spell power, so I'll want to be running with empower and maximise always on, and switch it off manually for spells, correct?
    This does not work any longer (It hasn't for quite a while). If you want to have empowered/maximized Shiradi Procs, they have to be on for the spell being cast to produce the procs.


    FWIW, at this point, armor feats seem to be better than many other feats at this time.
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  8. #8
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    Thanks for the input everyone, armor feats were something I hadn't considered at all, but I can see how the additional PRR and MRR could end up being better than more HP. Getting a Shadowmail shouldn't be a chore since I'm farming heart seeds and completing sagas to turn in after the ER anyway, I've also got enough points to twist in consecration and sacred ground. I'll check if it works with Shiradi procs or not and let you know. Between that, Cocoon and Healing Spring, staying alive should not be too hard.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    And yes, I saw and read the Toasting Toaster and Shiradi WF Sorc threads by Bloodskittle and Atomicmew.

    I'm about ready to ER, but I don't want to TR before I've unlocked the Harper tree, but to get that I'm waiting for adventure packs to go on sale so I can get Haunted Halls. I figured I could use the time to get my 2nd and 3rd Colours of the Queen PLs done, I've got enough Karma in the Primal sphere to get the 2nd right off the bat, and then it'd be running pretty much whatever's up in the lfm tab. Soloing EE is not required.

    Couple of things, though....

    I'm playing a meatbag, Drow to be precise, rather than a robot. And we're talking about a pure sorc, with no FvS, pally, or deep wizard splashes.


    About the things I could use some input on:

    From what I've understood, the Shiradi procs are affected by spell power, so I'll want to be running with empower and maximise always on, and switch it off manually for spells, correct?

    I was playing epic levels in Draconic Incarnation and Magister, heavily invested in high spell DCs. Going Shiradi means I'll be using a lot of spells that hit often rather than hard, and many of those won't allow for a save anyway. That potentially frees up 2 heroic feats (Evo focus, greater evo focus) and 1 epic feat (epic evo focus, but you'd probably guessed that already). I figure I'll be keeping the wizard PL feat I took because 10 missiles that can each cause Shiradi procs is too good to pass up.
    Quicken is probably the first thing everyone will think of recommending, but honestly, I haven't really felt the lack of it so far. Sure, Quickened Cocoon would be nice, but perhaps there's some other possibility. If so, I'd love to hear it.
    As for the 2nd feat I'm thinking Toughness and then Epic Toughness, the lack of HP is something I've felt far more keenly.

    In the Shiradi ED, Prism looks like THE stance to be in. Is that correct or am I missing something blindingly obvious? Let's not even talk about Nerve Venom, I'll be putting 3 points in that. Also: Is Rain of Arrows any good?

    About the spell selection... Firewall or Ice Storm? And in a bit more detail: Is it viable to go fire savant for Scorching Ray and Meteor Swarm, but use Ice Storm for the AoE to trigger procs, or am I better off using Firewall/Incendiary Cloud even with the lower DCs?
    If you are going to TR I would either go WF/BF or go with Pale Master which is a very fun route.
    I found Quickness wasn't worth it (except for Repair but still not for me) but Max is, espcially when its 1SP at 28 with double dip reduction from Arcane and AOV trees as well as meridian augment. Empower is nice to have to turn up the volume in a boss fight but not on all the time.
    Toughness, Mental Toughness for Crits, HP and Spell Points.

    I personally went with a deep wizzy splash 12Sorc/6Wiz/2FVS over 2monk splash.

    Really check out the Pale Master route before you go fleshy shiradi. DC Pale Masters are fun to play and more survivable.

    Shiradi is best played with BF/WF with Repair/quick heals and (IMHO) deep wizzy splash for Adamantine = High PRR/MRR.

    Saves, particularly reflex are your highest priority. I went INT based so I could max my reflex with Insightful Reflex feat. I also used Force of Personality feat for higher will saves from CHA.

    Shiradi Priorities again IMHO:
    Saves, particularly Reflex
    Force SP
    Force Crits
    Repair SP (If you are WF/BF)
    PRR
    MRR
    Sonic SP
    Fire SP (when you get Burst lvl4 Twist)
    Fire Crits
    (Perhaps) Sonic Crits
    HP
    Lightning/Electric/Cold SP for proc's and HellBall occasional non-MM spells.
    AC

    Nothing else really matters I think.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    Thanks for the input everyone, armor feats were something I hadn't considered at all, but I can see how the additional PRR and MRR could end up being better than more HP. Getting a Shadowmail shouldn't be a chore since I'm farming heart seeds and completing sagas to turn in after the ER anyway, I've also got enough points to twist in consecration and sacred ground. I'll check if it works with Shiradi procs or not and let you know. Between that, Cocoon and Healing Spring, staying alive should not be too hard.
    Heavy Armor Shiradi is what I play. I like it.. a lot.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilvanDDO View Post
    If you are going to TR
    I will, but not yet. 20 levels of sorc is what I have right now, and that's the way it'll stay for the moment. I'll ER and then kill time (and mobs) while waiting for adventure packs to go on sale. Then ER again before TR'ing. Once I TR I will most likely do something completely different. Probably involving q-staves since I've got a bunch of named ones gathering dust.

    If I return to Shiradi casting as an arcane sometime in the future, it will most probably involve wizard levels and empowered+maximised SLAs for some extra Oomph.

    I doubt I will ever play a robot. If they go on sale at -75% maybe...

    Going heavy armor would mean 3 feats with my current restrictions, which would mean spending an epic feat on a heroic feat, which seems like something of a waste honestly. I think medium will be fine, Shadowmail is a pretty nice one and I'll only have to spend enough points in the racial (Or EK, I suppose, I'll have to see which ends up more fitting for me) tree to lower ASF by 10%

  12. #12
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    So, the first ER is done and I'm now playing in Shiradi. Initial feedback time.

    The two missing levels of FvS are palpable, I burn through SP at a slightly faster rate than I did while in Arcane destinies and focusing on AoE and large damage numbers. I miss Energy Burst. The dps is nice but not extraordinary, I figure SLAs that you can empower and maximise at no cost for some more powerful procs could help with that. Nerve Venom rocks. I've made a partial switch over to the Air Savant capstone since Consecration seems to be unaffected by caster levels and, in fact, may not be a spell at all, I haven't noticed it triggering Shiradi procs or colours of the queen even once yet. I will continue observing. I've considered putting my remaining 31 points from fire savant into EK, but the gain in force spell power would be marginal and I'd be missing out several goodies in return for... well, little more than the aforementioned marginal gain in force spell power.

    What's really good is the healing and survivability. Between Consecration with Sacred Ground, Cocoon and Healing Spring, I pretty much only die if I'm one-shotted. Medium armor with its PRR makes that less likely as well.

    All in all a pure sorc in shiradi is playable even though unoptimised, epic hard content is really not so hard, and on epic elite you can still be a contributing member of society and pull your own weight.




    PS. A thought occurs... with a deep wizard splash, can you learn the same spell several times? I.e. is it possible to learn magic missile and force missiles as a sorcerer spell and to put them in your spell selection as wizard spells? If it's possible, are they on the same cooldown timer or on different ones?

  13. #13
    Community Member moriedhel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    PS. A thought occurs... with a deep wizard splash, can you learn the same spell several times? I.e. is it possible to learn magic missile and force missiles as a sorcerer spell and to put them in your spell selection as wizard spells? If it's possible, are they on the same cooldown timer or on different ones?
    Since the number of missiles depends on caster level and you are mainly sorc and sorc has the fastest casting times, even if you could I see no particular reason to do it. You get more procs out of the sorc versions and can safely cast all 3 missile spells as a single rotation without downtime afaik. You might be able to double cast chain missiles with 6 wiz, I guess, otherwise not seeing the appeal.

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    I also have no clear idea of how exactly it might be useful to have one spell prepared 2 times and have it on different cooldowns. It was just a thought that occurred to me, maybe you could use it to quickly spam the level 5 cold and lightning dots. Or divine punishment on a cleric/FvS split.

  15. #15
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Wiz and sorc spells share cooldown.

  16. #16
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    Don't neglect scorching ray, its a no-save fire spell with 3 procs chances IIRC not only that but I'm fairly certain that "Immolation" from the fire savant tree can proc shiradi stuff. Just my two cents, I really have more experience with regular sorcs than Shiradi stuff.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    So, the first ER is done and I'm now playing in Shiradi. Initial feedback time.

    The two missing levels of FvS are palpable, I burn through SP at a slightly faster rate than I did while in Arcane destinies and focusing on AoE and large damage numbers. I miss Energy Burst. The dps is nice but not extraordinary, I figure SLAs that you can empower and maximise at no cost for some more powerful procs could help with that. Nerve Venom rocks. I've made a partial switch over to the Air Savant capstone since Consecration seems to be unaffected by caster levels and, in fact, may not be a spell at all, I haven't noticed it triggering Shiradi procs or colours of the queen even once yet. I will continue observing. I've considered putting my remaining 31 points from fire savant into EK, but the gain in force spell power would be marginal and I'd be missing out several goodies in return for... well, little more than the aforementioned marginal gain in force spell power.

    What's really good is the healing and survivability. Between Consecration with Sacred Ground, Cocoon and Healing Spring, I pretty much only die if I'm one-shotted. Medium armor with its PRR makes that less likely as well.

    All in all a pure sorc in shiradi is playable even though unoptimised, epic hard content is really not so hard, and on epic elite you can still be a contributing member of society and pull your own weight.




    PS. A thought occurs... with a deep wizard splash, can you learn the same spell several times? I.e. is it possible to learn magic missile and force missiles as a sorcerer spell and to put them in your spell selection as wizard spells? If it's possible, are they on the same cooldown timer or on different ones?
    I play an air savant and specked to focus on lightning and force. It works really well. I rely most heavily on SLAs and secondarily on force, but invested in force spell power for the Shiradi procs. My build is here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...AOE-Air-Savant

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