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  1. #61
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    Tell me if I'm wrong:

    Unyielding Sentinel gives +10 prr thanks to "heed no pain" innate ability if you are not in unbreakable stance.

    Unyielding Sentinel gives +30 prr thanks to "heed no pain" innate ability if you are in unbreakable stance.

    Divine Crusader gives +10 prr thanks to Heavenly Presence and gives to a druid +13 prr thanks to "Just Cause" that increase druid base attack bonus.

    So a druid who chooses Unyielding sentinel, chooses it only to get more hit points in "Vigor of battle" stance, otherwise Divine Crusader gives more prr then sentinel to a druid.

    What do you think of a tank druid who chooses "empower healing" instead of "epic damage reduction" and uses "renewal" and "cocoon" when he has regenerate mass spell? Just get more spell points or use some scrolls to compensate the higher healing spell points cost.

    Sehenry03, do you also want to equip "torch" and "gauntlets of immortality" and a large shield like "Dethek Runestone" instead of items like "epic fanged gloves", "Epic Noxious Embers", "vim and vigor" and a tower shield (tower shield gives +15 prr and mrr, while large shield gives +10 prr and mrr).

    If you want I can continue...

    Now I want to launch a challenge to all sorcerers who don't run shiradi: show me a video of a max level 27 sorcerer who stands still and tanks the thrill of the hunt boss in a destiny different from sentinel or divine crusader, and let's see how much time he spends to kill that boss.
    Let me show how that sorcerer is good at tanking without his shadow armor and sheltering +30 and insightful sheltering +5 items.

    Only then you can say that a sorcerer deals more damage then a druid and at the same time he can be as good as a druid at tanking.

  2. #62
    Community Member Rys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    Now I want to launch a challenge to all sorcerers who don't run shiradi: show me a video of a max level 27 sorcerer who stands still and tanks the thrill of the hunt boss in a destiny different from sentinel or divine crusader, and let's see how much time he spends to kill that boss.
    Let me show how that sorcerer is good at tanking without his shadow armor and sheltering +30 and insightful sheltering +5 items.

    Only then you can say that a sorcerer deals more damage then a druid and at the same time he can be as good as a druid at tanking.
    I am not gonna guess if some sorc is able to do that or not because ddo players surprise me everyday but I watched your video in your OP and I haven't seen any tanking. Just regular kiting like everyone can do.

    Also one question. Last time I played druid, the elemental forms were granting the immunity to FTS because you weren't considered 'flesh'. Did that change at some point?
    Last edited by Rys; 02-11-2015 at 05:54 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    I am not gonna guess if some sorc is able to do that or not because ddo players surprise me everyday but I watched your video in your OP and I haven't seen any tanking. Just regular kiting like everyone can do.

    Also one question. Last time I played druid, the elemental forms were granting the immunity to FTS because you weren't considered 'flesh'. Did that change at some point?
    In terminal delirium happened recently that a medusa transformed me to stone while I was in water elemental form.

    About tanking: I'm starting to think that tanking a melee boss allows a druid to deal more dps because the boss stays still in my area of effect spells. While if I kite melee bosses then they don't take damage from ice storm + storm of vengeance + energy vortex.
    for that reason in my next epic reincarnation I'll twist legendary shield mastery and make some tests with 180+ prr (following this path will make me loose 16 spell power because I'm not equipping libram of silver magic insightful potency and not twisting Echoes of the Ancestors Primal Avatar) and see if it's worth it.
    Last edited by Michele; 02-11-2015 at 06:58 AM.

  4. #64
    Community Member Rys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    In terminal delirium happened recently that a medusa transformed me to stone while I was in water elemental form.
    Interesting. I was just suprised you got FTSed in WGU so I was wondering if you were running around in a wolf form or something. I am 100% sure I was immune in the fire elemental form back in U22 so maybe difference in water and fire elemental form? Can anyone confirm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    About tanking: I'm starting to think that tanking a melee boss allows a druid to deal more dps because the boss stays still in my area of effect spells. While if I kite melee bosses then they don't take damage from ice storm + storm of vengeance + energy vortex.
    for that reason in my next epic reincarnation I'll twist legendary shield mastery and make some tests with 180+ prr (following this path will make me loose 16 spell power because I'm not equipping libram of silver magic insightful potency and not twisting Echoes of the Ancestors Primal Avatar) and see if it's worth it.
    Will be happy to hear your reports. I am leveling caster druid as well at this moment (very slowly) and I am still not entirely set up on the final version of the build so I am looking for inspiration wherever I can. I will most probably splash it so it will be quite different from your build but I still can't decide if I want to take shield mastery line or not.

    I have seen last part you wrote before your edit and it is just a matter of a playstyle. Different people prefer different things. It's that simple.

  5. #65
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    in what goes up I was probably in wolf form to run faster and I was stoned.

    I'm not 100% sure if druids in elemental form are immune to flesh to stone.
    I can test a flesh to stone scroll in taming the flames heroic casual to see if fire elementals can be stoned (when I return from work).

    Thanks for telling me that: from now on I will always stay in water elemental form in what goes up :P ... those casters spam flesh to stone at will.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    I am still not entirely set up on the final version of the build so I am looking for inspiration wherever I can.
    I'm also not yet sure about the final version of my druid (I'm changing his equipment every day).

    All the criticisms that they do on my build are very useful to me, they make me think on what I can improve and they pose me new challenges.

    For example, these days I'm relying a lot on draconic incarnation abilities (energy burst, dragon breath, energy vortex) and I fit 3 pieces of the abishai set + arcane augmentation IX in my level 28 equipment in order to maximize their output damage (a druid in elemental form can cast energy burst at caster level 38: 28 level +3 elemental form +3 abishai set +2 arcane augmentation +1 time +1 time and tide).

    I was surprised to read in the combat log that abishai set affects energy burst and energy vortex, but NOT dragon breath.
    While draconic spell knowledge increase the caster level of dragon breath, but NOT the caster level of energy burst and enegy vortex.
    Arcane augmentation increase the caster level of all energy burst, energy vortex and dragon breath.
    Last edited by Michele; 02-11-2015 at 09:36 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    While draconic spell knowledge increase the caster level of energy vortex, but NOT the caster level of energy burst and enegy vortex.
    you mention energy vortex twice. one of them should probably be dragon breath.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    you mention energy vortex twice. one of them should probably be dragon breath.
    thanks.
    I corrected the post

  9. #69
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    I never said that a druid kills the same as a sorcerer (for example Jergall is a top geared sorcerer and he doubles my kills in any quest).
    I'm saying that sorcerers kills faster, but for me faster doesn't always means better.

    I often update my build, and now includes 45 videos (and I'm going to upload more): you probably judjing my first build.
    Consider that in those videos I'm showing a work in progress druid in the level range of 24-27.

    I'm not saying that gyngerspyce build sucks: I only asked you if you really want to take those feats.
    I shown you how you can have better prr than him without being in sentinel destiny.

    Druids have a d8 dice while sorcerers have a d4 dice, that's why I'm saying that druids have more hp than sorcerers (of course everything depends in equipment).

    And please, show me how a sorcerer reaches 211 prr in draconic destiny.

    In my next life I'll sacrifice 16 points of spell power and 1 Point of DC for shield mastery and I'll try to male a video while I tank an epic elite boss in draconic epic destiny at level 25 (I think the thrill of the hunt will be a good example).
    Thats how a reply should be. Stop trying to tear someone else's build down just to make yours look better.

    My point was you said a druid kills almost the same as a sorc and that is way false. Again a druid kills well and is very good at SP conservation...I love my druid...but he in no way puts out the same DPS as the same built Sorc. On the other hand a Druid can face tank anything in the game and sorcs usually melt away under that pressure.

    And for PRR...I did misspeak. I was trying to do the math for my gear...can't get in game right now...my PRR on my sorc ended up in the 180ish range which is around 3% less. That is when I knew I was gonna get pounded on and was easy to achieve when needed.

    One question though since I am not in game...Legendary Shield Mastery gives 30%? I have that ED and I thought it gave 15%? Will have to relook at it in game if its that high.

    And on the plus side you make your build look a whole lot better if you just leave someone else's out of it. It doesn't matter if someone wants to try aanother build as thats all part of the game. You have a nice build plenty will try (as will I) but some will like different builds for different reasons. Remember yours is posted as a DPS build and it does a good job...stop comparing Gingers to yours as he is posting his as a party friendly UTILITY build which it is. Just focus on your build.

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  10. #70
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    Tell me if I'm wrong:

    Unyielding Sentinel gives +10 prr thanks to "heed no pain" innate ability if you are not in unbreakable stance.

    Unyielding Sentinel gives +30 prr thanks to "heed no pain" innate ability if you are in unbreakable stance.

    Divine Crusader gives +10 prr thanks to Heavenly Presence and gives to a druid +13 prr thanks to "Just Cause" that increase druid base attack bonus.

    So a druid who chooses Unyielding sentinel, chooses it only to get more hit points in "Vigor of battle" stance, otherwise Divine Crusader gives more prr then sentinel to a druid.

    What do you think of a tank druid who chooses "empower healing" instead of "epic damage reduction" and uses "renewal" and "cocoon" when he has regenerate mass spell? Just get more spell points or use some scrolls to compensate the higher healing spell points cost.

    Sehenry03, do you also want to equip "torch" and "gauntlets of immortality" and a large shield like "Dethek Runestone" instead of items like "epic fanged gloves", "Epic Noxious Embers", "vim and vigor" and a tower shield (tower shield gives +15 prr and mrr, while large shield gives +10 prr and mrr).

    If you want I can continue...

    Now I want to launch a challenge to all sorcerers who don't run shiradi: show me a video of a max level 27 sorcerer who stands still and tanks the thrill of the hunt boss in a destiny different from sentinel or divine crusader, and let's see how much time he spends to kill that boss.
    Let me show how that sorcerer is good at tanking without his shadow armor and sheltering +30 and insightful sheltering +5 items.

    Only then you can say that a sorcerer deals more damage then a druid and at the same time he can be as good as a druid at tanking.
    I NEVER said he can tank AND DPS at the same time. I said he can achieve similar PRR if he wants. If a Sorc specs all out DPS there is no comparison between a sorc and ANY other class in the game for DPS output.

    on the other hand...if a Sorc with pally splash (which I do every once in awhile) wants they can hit 180 PRR pretty easy. Yes they certainly give up DPS to do that but they gain survivability. I am pretty sure I have posted over and over that a druid is ALWAYS a better tank...I have never argued that. You said a sorc can't hit 20 PRR and they can hit 180PRR really easy.

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  11. #71
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    Yes, I remember twisting legendary shield mastery was adding +30 prr. I don't know if it's a bug or the result of 5 + 10 + 15.
    I'll test again in next life when I'll take both shield mastery feats.

    Please can you tell me how your pure sorcerer was hitting 180 prr in draconic incarnation destiny? You don't need to log in the game to do the math if you know well the game rules.

    If you consider paladin levels then I could consider 3 fighter levels and this is not the case.

  12. #72
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    Ok lets see...and forgive me if I get a number wrong. This was my last life as a sorc when I went 18sorc/2pally and I wanted to add more defense to my build. It did lower my DPS but I was still able to solo the same places...just at a slower pace.

    PRR = +15 past lives +45 heavy armor +25 heavy armor proficiency +30 dumathoin's bracers +5 circle of malevolence +15 tower shield +15 improved shield mastery +30 legendary shield mastery +10 epic damage reduction = 190
    (with all divine and purple dragon knight past lives you can reach 211 PRR)

    +18 PRR from PL's - PDK/Divine
    45 Heavy Armor
    25 Heavy Prof
    +30 Duma's bracers
    +5 Circle of Mal
    +10 Large Shield
    +10 Imp Shield Mast
    +10 Epic Dmg reduction
    +30 Leg Shield Mast <---I thought this was 15 so your own formula was better then mine

    = 183PRR not counting Heavy Shadowscale with +30/+60 DR not sure how that factors in

    The main issue I had with this build was I could really only focus on fire as my spec so I had to be careful which quests I ran. When I wanted higher DPS I just dropped my shield and bracers and chnged gear out.

    Will I run this build again? Maybe. Depends on what they do with Divine Grace later. Personally I still prefer pure sorc but it is more fragile and i have to be a lot more careful.

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  13. #73
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    Smile

    I don't think that you can have all those bonuses because you would have a sorcerer with huge arcane spell failure.

    Also a sorcerer is feat starved and can't afford legendary mastery without gimping his dps and dc.

    What race is that? A drow or half elf? Or a bladeforged? If it's a bladeforged then the adamantine body gives less prr then a full plate.

    Also heavy armor proficiency prr bonus is based on base attack bonus, and a sorcerer has a bab lower than druids.

    The only shield a sorcerer can afford is a skyvault shield with its 0% asf and it's a tower shield, not a large shield.
    Last edited by Michele; 02-12-2015 at 04:28 AM. Reason: changed the word "twilight" with "skyvault"

  14. #74
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    I don't think that you can have all those bonuses because you would have a sorcerer with huge arcane spell failure.

    Also a sorcerer is feat starved and can't afford legendary mastery without gimping his dps and dc.

    What race is that? A drow or half elf? Or a bladeforged? If it's a bladeforged then the adamantine body gives less prr then a full plate.

    Also heavy armor proficiency prr bonus is based on base attack bonus, and a sorcerer has a bab lower than druids.

    The only shield a sorcerer can afford is a twilight shield with its 0% asf and it's a tower shield, not a large shield.
    Yeah it could easily be a couple points lower...a sorc does have a little lower BaB then druid but not a lot. Thaats why i said check my math =)

    Also yes Sorcs have ASF but thats easy to avoid with feats/AP's/crafted armor bonuses/etc...its easy to get to 0% with heavy...so No...I have ZERO ASF

    And yes a sorc is feat starved which is why i said before anything I posted that this was a defensive buildd i did and it ddidd lower my DC's a few points. Race is Human

    How do you figure the only shield a sorc can afford is twilight? You seriously need to learn a little beefore posting stuff you don't know about.

    1) You are wrong on ASF its easy to wear heavy on sorc and have 0% asf...easier on wizzies
    2) You are wrong that twilight is the only 0% shield as I can mention Fanion or Skyvault as a quick 2
    3) So plz...tell me again that its impossible for a sorc to get 180 PRR?

    Whats sad is I didn't jump on and try to tear up your build like you seem to want to ddo to everyone else's. I told you yours was good. Dang dood you seriously can not stand any competition even when none was mentioned...

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    I mean that skyvault is a tower shield, not a large shield (I mistelled "skyvault" with "twilight" and corrected now the post).
    Heavy armor proficiency is 5 points lower in a sorcerer when compared to a druid... not a couple as you said.
    Earth Elemental Apotheosis give +25 prr, while the other savant apotheosis give +20 prr.
    Eldritch Knight improved shield enhancement gives you +15 prr.
    You need 3 paladin levels to get the sacred defence stance: with only 2 paladin levels you get only more saves (and heavy armor proficiency).
    Shadowplate armor gives you 30/60 damage reduction, not prr.
    Who is between me and you that doesn't know how to calculate prr? (here, go to this page to learn how to calculate prr: http://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating ).

    You still didn't told me how you reach 0% asf.
    I'll give the response that you should have given about how to reach 0% asf:

    -15% augment -10% eldritch knight spellsword -5% eldritch knight tier 2 light armor proficiency enhancement -5% eldritch knight tier 4 medium armor proficiency enhancement = -35% asf

    Are you saying to me that you filled eldritch knight tree up to tier 4??? All this defense and your human heals himself with cocoon and heal scrolls? What crappy evocation and enchantment dc and charisma and spell power have your sorcerer with such a build? With that build do you hope to kill faster that this druid build?

    I think that gingerspyce is more suited for your playstyle: my build is not for players like you.

    Are you all noobs as you in Sarlona server???
    I typed "sarlona noobs" on google and this link appeared:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...bs-of-Sarlona?

    Ah wait, you are in your same guild, that explains everything. Please stop posting in this thread because people like you who refuse to learn and improve are not welcome.
    You can go spamming his thread and telling him how he is awesome, I don't care, but don't come here spreading numbers that you are not even able to calculate.

    Your guild website says "We would much rather run with good people that are willing to learn than elitists with attitudes".
    Well, I'm an elitist with attitudes, so stop speaking with me.
    Last edited by Michele; 02-12-2015 at 04:56 AM.

  16. #76
    Community Member Sehenry03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele View Post
    I mean that skyvault is a tower shield, not a large shield (I mistelled "skyvault" with "twilight" and corrected now the post).
    Heavy armor proficiency is 5 points lower in a sorcerer when compared to a druid... not a couple as you said.
    Earth Elemental Apotheosis give +25 prr, while the other savant apotheosis give +20 prr.
    Eldritch Knight improved shield enhancement gives you +15 prr.
    You need 3 paladin levels to get the sacred defence stance: with only 2 paladin levels you get only more saves (and heavy armor proficiency).
    Shadowplate armor gives you 30/60 damage reduction, not prr.
    Who is between me and you that doesn't know how to calculate prr? (here, go to this page to learn how to calculate prr: http://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating ).

    You still didn't told me how you reach 0% asf.
    I'll give the response that you should have given about how to reach 0% asf:

    -15% augment -10% eldritch knight spellsword -5% eldritch knight tier 2 light armor proficiency enhancement -5% eldritch knight tier 4 medium armor proficiency enhancement = -35% asf

    Are you saying to me that you filled eldritch knight tree up to tier 4??? All this defense and your human heals himself with cocoon and heal scrolls? What crappy evocation and enchantment dc and charisma and spell power have your sorcerer with such a build? With that build do you hope to kill faster that this druid build?

    I think that gingerspyce is more suited for your playstyle: my build is not for players like you.

    Are you all noobs as you in Sarlona server???
    I typed "sarlona noobs" on google and this link appeared:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...bs-of-Sarlona?

    Ah wait, you are in your same guild, that explains everything. Please stop posting in this thread because people like you who refuse to learn and improve are not welcome.
    You can go spamming his thread and telling him how he is awesome, I don't care, but don't come here spreading numbers that you are not even able to calculate.

    Your guild website says "We would much rather run with good people that are willing to learn than elitists with attitudes".
    Well, I'm an elitist with attitudes, so stop speaking with me.
    Ok lets break this down

    Heavy armor prof is 5 pts lower on a STRAIGHT sorc...with 2 levels of pally that brings it up to 3-4 pts differnt. I can safely say that when you are talking about 185 PRR that 304 pts is a FEW.
    I never said I got Sacred Stance which I haven't so not sure why you even bring up 3 levels of pally.
    Shadowplate is 30/60 which is why I said I don't know how that would translate over to PRR
    I also NEVER said that the sorc/pally killed faster then any build. You said it was impossible for a sorc to reach PRR near your druid and I simply showed you that you were wrong.
    You also stated that the sorc would have high ASF which i simply said I didn't...I never cared to break down the ASF because again...you were already wrong.

    So lets try this again...now take it slow i don't want you to hurt yourself...

    Where did I EVER say a 18sorc/2pally was a high dps build? i didn't. I said it was a defensive build that I was playing around with just to see what kind of PRR i could get and still try to keep DPS. So plz...quote me where I say it is high DPS?

    I did say a pure sorc built for DPS will kill a lot faster then a druid. You said they they would only kill a little faster and thats when your credibility started going downhill.

    All I ever did in your thread was say you had a great build but you would be a lot better off just talking about your build instead of trying to tear someone else down. you still have a good build whats sad is you as a person who feels your an elitist when you haven't done anything special yet other then make a good build with a druid thats hard to mess up.

    So again..plz tell me how a sorc can't possibly reach 180PRR like you told me...

    Also tell me how my sorc would have a high spell fail chance because I wore heavy armor...pretty sure you said in your quote that I would have a high failure rate.

    You really need to learn to read before you start calling yourself an elitist.

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    Sehenry03, what part of "Please stop posting in this thread" you didn't understand?

    If you have any more questions about druids, do them to your guild leader.
    I don't want to waste my time anymore with you.
    And go speaking about your crappy defensive sorcerer, in the sorcerer forum: yours is not a sorcerer, it's only a no sense human build with half dps of a well built sorcerer and without being able to reconstruct like a warforged/bladeforged.
    Last edited by Michele; 02-12-2015 at 07:29 AM.

  18. #78
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    Sorcerer it's my favourite class in ddo but I gave up on playing it, because the state of DDO actually does not encourage me on playing it. Sorc is a machine of pure destruction in short or medium quest but any long quest with not so many shrine or those new raid with no shrine, is a pain in the a.. to play a sorc.

    I did an EE fire peaks and was absolutely a pot fest, wgu the same and I hate using sp pots. I do not consider a build to be good if you need to use sp pots. I had something like 800+ spellpower all the discount clicky most of the pl in the game, 60% plus on my crit spell and yes the dps is absolutely insane but I do agree 100% with Michele that sp wise druid is far more efficent.

    As well I need to mention the best combo for sorc, hold+burst or hold+breath etc, in the actual end game content everything is immune to hold so....i went back to bard and very happy I did it.
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    There a reason you don't take the druid SLA's past the one point for creeping cold ? Granted produce flame is meh, but call lightning and word of balance pack a lot of punch and really extend the mana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    There a reason you don't take the druid SLA's past the one point for creeping cold ? Granted produce flame is meh, but call lightning and word of balance pack a lot of punch and really extend the mana.
    yes, tier 1 creeping cold sla cooldown lasts 12 second and it's exactly the time needed for a greater creeping cold to unleash its full power: it's mostly a visual help to avoid pressing "Z" to see when a greater creeping cold effect ends.

    I do the same thing with sunburst sla: it has a cooldown of 30 seconds and helps me to understand when earthquake and ice storm end.

    I can't take tier 5 word of balance sla because I already use tier 5 enhancements of the Harper tree that gives me +16 spell power with only 5 AP spent.

    I didn't got call lightning sla for many reasons:
    - it does only 2k critical damage on a single target with a cooldown of 8 seconds (too much time);
    - call lightning "spell" without metamagic does 1k damage without metamagic for 12 spell points cost and 2 seconds cooldown, so I don't see big benefits in having the sla.
    - I don't have heighten spell feat, so in epic elite mobs usually succeed the reflex save;
    - I use the spell with full metamagic when I want to kill something faster (for example bosses) and I know I can afford the spell points cost (usually when they stand still in my solid fog, so they have the -5 reflex saves penalty);
    - I have better places where to spend my action points (I don't want to sacrifice Natures Warden or autumnal sussurs or wand and scroll mastery or +16 spell power from harper tree);
    - Not even in heroic content call lightning sla is useful, because I managed to one-shot mobs with 1 call lightning regular spell without metamagic feats with maxed lightning spell power (bracers of wind, spellsight item, etcetera).

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