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  1. #1
    Community Member Odrin's Avatar
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    Default Rangers Need to Be reborn

    I'm aware this is the Lama Discussion, but i wanted to get this idea out there so something may come of it

    The following are Idea of how to improve the game play of most rangers or ranger splashing. Seeing the "required ranger" on the follow please note that in order to get the weapon power the ranger lvls are required, still keeping the ranger class open for multiclassing.



    Looking at the Ranger class, it seems as if they below a large portion of the other classes in the game. Which with Pallis, and barbs getting improvements, where is the ranger improvement? I'm not asking for rangers to be over power, just a bit more damage or Hp or FvE.

    idea's
    deepwood
    FvE damage now scale with 100% melee power (200% with deepwood sniper tier5)
    Heavy draw gives 10 range attack power
    Archer Focus upon reaching 15 stacks of archers focus increase range power by 5 and 5 more for every 5 stacks after the initial 5
    Leg shot stuns for 2 seconds and then slows (requires 18 lvls of ranger)
    FvE gives +1/+3/+5 FvE damage, to hit, saves, AC (requires 5/10/15 lvls of ranger)

    Arcane Archer
    AA line with top tier grants 10 Range attack power (requires 12 lvls of ranger)
    Arrow of Slaying gives you a 5 range attack power lasting for 5 seconds after a successful shot(requires 15 lvls ranger)
    Master of Imbuement gives 10 range attack power

    Tempest
    Dance of Death and A thousand Cuts 5's give 5 melee power
    Whirling blades give +3/6/9/12/15 melee weapon power while 2wf(available at 4/8/12/16/20 lvls of ranger)
    Possibly top tier which forces you to drop light armor,Requiring you to wear a robe and 2wf, yet you are given a +10 melee weapons power and 10% double strike (would prefer weapon speed) added to capstone

  2. #2
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    My first character was/is a tempest. He's been in retirement for a while as he simply wasn't epic worthy. ( Dies too easily ) The problems go deeper than just a little added damage. Although they've made some improvements many of the top tier tempest abilities have far too great a cooldown for far too short and small an effect. It's also got some serious AP price issues. 2 AP for +1 AC? 2AP for +1 to determining critical hits? My suggestion would be to increase survivability. +1% dodge per core. double all AC bonuses. Abilities to increase the effectiveness of light armor. Reduce AP costs of some abilities. Complete rework/replacement of some higher tier abilities. But for a really interesting enhancement .... Tempest Tier 5 ... Gain the ability to use dexterity modifier instead of strength modifier for tactical feats of trip, stun, and sunder.

    Arcane Archer. My most powerful character is an arcane archer/monkcher I would not suggest any damage increases. Instead I'd consider giving more doubleshot bonuses to make pure ranger arcane archers more competitive with monkchers that do not need any help. ( and have very limited benefit from doubleshot )

    Deepwood stalker. Aside from 11 AP spent to get to sniper shot/exposing strike, ( the best ability in that tree by far ) I've never really invested in this tree. Nothing really seemed worth it. The archer enhancements don't seem to compete with Arcane Archer and the melee enhancements don't even exist in the higher tiers.

  3. #3
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    Mix ranger with paladin and all your survivability issues go away. Otherwise rangers suffer from the same thing that plagues any class that doesn't have access to heavy armor. Just like the game used to be all about running around in pajamas the game is all about being in heavy armor now.

  4. #4
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    Ranged power has to be included in the DWS and AA trees for sure (also battle engineer and mechanic), and also some destinies (shiradi, maybe shadowdancer) and racial trees (elf, halfling) need ranged power.

    Ranged power should be in the higher cores (12, 18 or capstone) to prevent OP stacking from splashes. Alternatively it could be limited to certain weapons (only if wearing a bow for rangers, crossbow for mechanics and BE, to avoid too much ranged power on shuriken)
    Zeugen der Dreizehn, Thelanis:
    Makkuroi, chain TR: currently drow pure caster warlock
    PLs: Completionist; 3xWiz, Sor; 2x Pal, Brd, Monk EPLs: 3x CotQ,Brc,DS,EW,EC 1xFH,PLD ; IPLs: 2x BF; 3x PDK, SDK

  5. #5
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    I would be overjoyed if they just made the basic Arcane Arrows a part of the first core and not an additional cost/choice

  6. #6
    Community Member wizdarrick's Avatar
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    Default Ranged DPS is not doing very good now days at all

    I am noticing that in every quest I see now days those who use a bow and arrow, or a throwing weapon makes the monster look around like it's getting bitten by a mosquito and then continues on doing what ever. You enter a room with 10 monsters inside it and 9 are killed by the Mele and Magics and only 1 is killed by the ranged, throwing weapons.
    Since the Mele Attack Power has finally gone up around the same as magics I am glad about that but now the Ranged is falling way behind we need to up the weapon base damage give the ranged attack power a higher kick or something with enhancements to even the score.

    One thing that is not very impressive is getting 3 lives in double shot for epic. Here you are using multi arrow and 10,000 stars (which even while using these isn't killing many compared to the mele and magics now days) and you lose all your double shot abilities for a full minute afterwards ok what is the point of even getting a past life in double shot then?
    Last edited by wizdarrick; 01-11-2015 at 12:49 PM.

  7. #7
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    Question Is the Ranger DDOs duck?

    What is a ranger?

    The duck doesn't fly well, doesn't swim well and doesn't walk well. And so is the ranger.

    Seems to me that the ranger can't do anything well in DDO. It can't be the group's tank, since it has no survivability and can't hold aggro. It can't be the DPS either ranged or melee since it can (and will) be outperformed by virtually every other melee build, splash or not, and there are many better "archers" around. It can't heal or even self heal, cure serious is a very low levels spell for 14 level character to rely on, not to mention the pretty limited sp pool. It can't trap without splashing rogue, but since rogues get some really good feats at level 10 and above, not to mention sneak attacks, it's more likely to see a rogue splashing ranger than the other way around.

    I would say the problem is the whole concept, getting a lot of feats at low level and some really crappy abilities that don't scale well or have any use at all relegates the class to a splash. So far what I've seen from the Tempest and DWS pass will only worsen this problem, giving rangers better trees will not fix the class. The trees are a better tool to multis than to pure builds. The problem is not the trees it's the class. Lets break it down.

    - The ranger has d8s for HP which may seem appropriate since they're a mixed bag, but that's it for HP, no stance with bonus %HP, no con on trees, no fortification. Now DWS has "survivalist" 30 (or 60 not sure from text) HP more on tree, hardly a life changer, and really won't prevent being one shot. AND that should not be their thing anyway, they're supposed to be light on their feet, why not give them uncanny dodge (it scales well with levels and it is a great panic button) instead of evasion? maybe evasion could be at tempest capstone?

    - Favored Enemy is very weak, it is their only really unique ability and lets be honest it sucks. It should be really defining not a lame +2 damage or 16 if u have all 8 favored enemies. It does not scale into epics and it only works for a few enemies, 8 types out of 26. That said I don't oppose the idea of the ability, just its implementation, since it's supposed to come from familiarity with fighting with them, something like fortification bypass would seem great, specially if it increased for every FE you have, 10% would be about right. Really great and real good scaling.

    - No pet? Really? Druids get pets, artificers get pets, even mages get pets, why not rangers? it is iconic of the class, maybe even more than druids and ranger didn't get it? makes no sense. It's a feature that scales with level and also makes sense, since they get some sneak attacks why not give some decent way to land it. A pet would be great for rangers, would give them some diversion if melee or tanking if ranged. Maybe Devs think it would be over powered but I am pretty sure paladins and company would still outperform.

    - Spells need rework, there are 4 spells that see any use at all. Something is fundamentally wrong when u have more slots to use than spells u can actually use. Some usable crowd control would be a good thing. Real healing would be welcome too.

    - Last but not least Wild Empathy is useless as it is. It should have been based on survival or knowledge nature skills, I'm well aware that the game doesn't have those skills but still why not base it on the next best thing in game, maybe concentration or heal. Put some options on trees to use it as something else like u have for turn undead, maybe some forest might ( give u dex bonus equal to wis mod) and u have a decent ability.

    I don't really expect much of this, if any, to change. This is just my two bits on the matter.
    Last edited by Renatochewie; 09-20-2015 at 04:28 AM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renatochewie View Post
    - Last but not least Wild Empathy is useless as it is. It should have been based on survival or knowledge nature skills, I'm well aware that the game doesn't have those skills but still why not base it on the next best thing in game, maybe concentration or heal. Put some options on trees to use it as something else like u have for turn undead, maybe some forest might ( give u dex bonus equal to wis mod) and u have a decent ability.
    Forest Might is a neat idea: Divine Might, except instead of Cha mod to Str you get Wis mod to Dex. Costs one Wild Empathy, lasts 30/60/120 seconds depending on how many ranks you take. I like it.

  9. #9
    Community Member mezzorco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renatochewie View Post
    What is a ranger?

    The duck doesn't fly well, doesn't swim well and doesn't walk well. And so is the ranger.
    Ducks are excellent swimmers and excellent fliers, unlike rangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renatochewie View Post
    - No pet? Really? Druids get pets, artificers get pets, even mages get pets, why not rangers? it is iconic of the class, maybe even more than druids and ranger didn't get it? makes no sense. It's a feature that scales with level and also makes sense, since they get some sneak attacks why not give some decent way to land it. A pet would be great for rangers, would give them some diversion if melee or tanking if ranged. Maybe Devs think it would be over powered but I am pretty sure paladins and company would still outperform.
    I completely agree. Unfortunately a dev stated a ranger pet is not feasible currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renatochewie View Post
    - Spells need rework, there are 4 spells that see any use at all. Something is fundamentally wrong when u have more slots to use than spells u can actually use. Some usable crowd control would be a good thing. Real healing would be welcome too.
    You can't imagine how much I agree with you. Crowd control, healing, utility or even quality of life spells would be all welcome.
    Currently, most ranger spells do not stack with equipment and are thus worthless.
    I'm not even talking about summoning a CR4 animal at level 14.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renatochewie View Post
    - Last but not least Wild Empathy is useless as it is. It should have been based on survival or knowledge nature skills, I'm well aware that the game doesn't have those skills but still why not base it on the next best thing in game, maybe concentration or heal. Put some options on trees to use it as something else like u have for turn undead, maybe some forest might ( give u dex bonus equal to wis mod) and u have a decent ability.
    I really, really like the idea.

  10. #10
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezzorco View Post
    Ducks are excellent swimmers and excellent fliers, unlike rangers.
    Compared to a dolphin or an eagle, not really.

    Rangers in d&d are a confused hodgepodge of mismatched flavor. A middle ages european woodsman that uses middle eastern weaponry and fighting style, because he is an elf... or something. And hunts with a long bow, because dear wear fullplate sometimes...

    In this game they are the same, minus the tracking ability, and scouting is useless, since we've already run the quest 100 times and know where the mobs are.
    Last edited by Lonnbeimnech; 09-20-2015 at 06:29 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    In this game they are the same, minus the tracking ability, and scouting is useless, since we've already run the quest 100 times and know where the mobs are.
    Tracking would be nice but I have the feeling people would exploit explorer areas with it (if it even worked correctly).

    Scouting would work, but we don't even wait for the Rogues to scout
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

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