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  1. #1
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    Default Monster Champion Feedback

    If you've been questing on Lamannia, we'd love to get your feedback on something new that's been added to Update 24 in our most recent build: Monster Champions! From the Release Notes:

    • NEW: Monster Champions: Some enemies will now gain randomized buffs on Hard and Elite difficulties. Players can see an indicator above an enemies' head to identify them as having been buffed. Enemies who receive the buffs are called Champions, and have a visible crown above their head to mark them. Mini-boss Champions have a chance to drop a chest when defeated. Monster Champions do not appear in raids.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  2. #2
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    So are the champions in all quests or only the new ones?

    I'm also curious if these champions are randomly selected from all mobs in a quest, randomly selected from specific mobs chosen in each quest, or if specific mobs in a quest will always be champions on Hard an Elite.

  3. #3
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    this sounds cool!

    keep this style of things coming!

  4. #4
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    Default Sweet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    If you've been questing on Lamannia, we'd love to get your feedback on something new that's been added to Update 24 in our most recent build: Monster Champions! From the Release Notes:
    This sounds wonderful...adding some excitement and randomness to any/all adventures is nothing but WIN in my book!

  5. #5
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    This sounds like a great little thing to make Questing a little more difficult and a little more interesting. Randomness is something that's great to add, especially with people TRing and re-running all the content. Some numbers would be nice:

    Is the chance to encounter a Monster Champion increased on Elite relative to Hard?

    What is the chance that a monster on Elite will be a champion? How often will we encounter a monster like this?


    Depending on this, you might not want to have a crown display above the monster's head because, it might be intrusive for the view (and seeing 2 or 3 together would make them not-so-special). Of course, I'd have to see how exactly the crown shows up to form an opinion, but if the crown doesn't work out a simple change to the monster's name colour (something like silver) would be cool.
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    To give some idea of what you can expect from these, I ran into the first boss of LoD as one of these new champions. She had buffs that increased her damage, gave her true seeing, and gave her the ability to bypass enemy fortification. Needless to say, these buffs on an actual hard hitting boss would make it very difficult. She also dropped a chest, which was of course worthless.

    I'm not in favor of this change, personally. The indication that you're dealing with a champion is too easy to miss and the reward is at best trivial. At least make them worth a few thousand XP or something.

    Edited to add: This was on EE. In total I ran into about 8 champions mobs.

  7. #7
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    sounds cool and something along the lines of different and challenge. ill check it out soon.
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  8. #8
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    Definitely sounds interesting, I'll have to wait and see what sort of buffs are given.

  9. #9
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    Does this change their color? Are they still "orange"? Etc . . .

  10. #10
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    I do like this idea.

    I will like it even better if the buffs can be dispelled. Right now, dispel magic and the like are offensively nearly worthless.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Portalcat's Avatar
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    Are these enemies (A) immune to death effects, and/or (B) immune to level drain?
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  12. #12
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    If you've been questing on Lamannia, we'd love to get your feedback on something new that's been added to Update 24 in our most recent build: Monster Champions! From the Release Notes:
    Awesome, now you need to add them to wilderness and even make nameds spawn with champion versions. Upping the chances of named item drops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    If you've been questing on Lamannia, we'd love to get your feedback on something new that's been added to Update 24 in our most recent build: Monster Champions! From the Release Notes:
    Well, I did all the new dungeons on Hard, and never noticed any creatures with a random crown on his head. Apparently the spawn rate isn't huge (or the new dungeons have low numbers of monsters)


    I don't like the sound of that idea as a global thing. It'd probably be better if the designers of particular dungeons / areas had been encouraged to include more of that kind of enemy variety as they built it, not having something happen without their control. For example, instead of every non-boss Orthon and Barbazu within Shavarath being identical to each other (within difficulty level), 50% of them could've been slightly different character classes (like Sorcerer, antiPaladin, etc).

  14. #14
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabbler View Post
    Well, I did all the new dungeons on Hard, and never noticed any creatures with a random crown on his head. Apparently the spawn rate isn't huge (or the new dungeons have low numbers of monsters)


    I don't like the sound of that idea as a global thing. It'd probably be better if the designers of particular dungeons / areas had been encouraged to include more of that kind of enemy variety as they built it, not having something happen without their control. For example, instead of every non-boss Orthon and Barbazu within Shavarath being identical to each other (within difficulty level), 50% of them could've been slightly different character classes (like Sorcerer, antiPaladin, etc).
    I love the champions offensive abilities. I did EH palace of stone and ran across 20 or so of them. I think for eh, that is good for soloing. However their HP is a little lacking. I think they need either some DR, more HP, or some healing power. Perhaps the healing power that the named mobs in shroud have? That way it forces players to pull and work them down.

    Also out of the 20, none spawned a chest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    If you've been questing on Lamannia, we'd love to get your feedback on something new that's been added to Update 24 in our most recent build: Monster Champions! From the Release Notes:
    Also, it is bad to have mechanics that only show up on Hard/Elite.

    The only difference between Normal and Elite should be the stat numbers of monsters and traps... the monsters shouldn't be more numerous, use different rules, or get any new abilities (that couldn't also show up in a higher-level Normal dungeon).

  16. #16
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabbler View Post
    Also, it is bad to have mechanics that only show up on Hard/Elite.

    The only difference between Normal and Elite should be the stat numbers of monsters and traps... the monsters shouldn't be more numerous, use different rules, or get any new abilities (that couldn't also show up in a higher-level Normal dungeon).
    I think hard and elite are great for the mechanic. 80% of the players play those difficulties.

    I think they need to do 1.5 times the damage on each difficulty and have 2 times their current hp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I think hard and elite are great for the mechanic. 80% of the players play those difficulties.
    The pathetic non-challenge of Normal is one of DDO's ongoing failures; and something that was kicked into high-gear this year when the devs changed their balance goal to make Epic Elite managable for all builds.

    There's already Casual mode if someone needs everything to be easy; they need to either fix Normal to be normal, or else make Hard the default (and allow everyone to open Hard their first run). The broken Normal mode is particularly troublesome for trying to recruit a new player, because all they see is Normal and it seems broken.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ainlaen View Post
    increased her damage
    gave her true seeing
    gave her the ability to bypass enemy fortification
    Just no turbine. No. This is "colors having adrenaline" all over again. You cannot blanket add random spots all over the game where mobs suddenly ignore blur, displacement, fortification, and randomly hit harder.

    Its not balanced. It creates the chance for dungeons to spawn with combinations that effectively put you in the position where its better to just recall out and start over than bother. How does that help anyone?

    Further feedback isnt really needed. Its a terrible idea. Dont believe me? Go read a Diablo 2 forum. That game has mobs called, wait for it, Champions. With randomly spawned effects. That are *notorious* for creating combinations where you just portal out to reroll it and go back in.

    Its already been done. Its already been tested. Its flawed. And its no different here.

    You want to have it be "only dungeons lv26-30" thats a step in the right direction. You want to limit it to effects which just buff the mob fine. Having a named randomly spawn with say 75 prr/mrr, but then drop a chest, okay fine. That doesnt screw over anyones character, just makes a random fighter harder but rewards you.

    But having ALL dungeons randomly have a chance for buffs which defeat ALL of a characters mode of defense... its just a bad idea. And it was a bad idea before (random adrenaline). And it was a bad idea before that (Diablo). And I cant even believe Im having to post to say that. You want to walk into tomb of the shadow knight and have orange named pop which ignore fortification? Yea no thanks. Ever. No random chest vendor trash is worth that stress added to the game. Period. Why isnt this self evident to anyone over there?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqzor View Post
    Further feedback isnt really needed. Its a terrible idea. Dont believe me? Go read a Diablo 2 forum. That game has mobs called, wait for it, Champions. With randomly spawned effects.
    I think it'd be a fine idea for 10% of monsters in most dungeons to be tougher variants with special powers, but not as a global thing. Instead a designer would be assigned to work over a certain area (like Tangleroot or Shavarath) and figure out 2-4 upgraded versions of regular monsters. The key is that the new monsters are planned by an intelligent person who considered the whole context of the quest, and aren't just stamped out by computer.


    When creating the upgraded versions, do not simply add passive stats to the enemy (although higher hp and damage are fine to start with). Instead try giving them active features, like a defense shield that lasts for 20 seconds out of 60 or a self-buff that gives greatly ramped-up damage which scales from 100% to 400% over 10 sec (and has a particle effect so players know it's coming). Take a look at LOTRO mobs; they do some of that. Plus, the upgraded monsters can have a weakness as well; probably a slower movement speed (at least to start; they can catch up later). That slower speed gives players a chance to see the special enemy and react to it, instead of being blindsided and crushed.


    But you know what? Designing good upgraded Champion monsters sounds like a lot of work, and I think the designers have much higher priority tasks to handle first! Better to put this off until all heroic and epic trees are finished and balanced...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I love the champions offensive abilities. I did EH palace of stone and ran across 20 or so of them. I think for eh, that is good for soloing. However their HP is a little lacking. I think they need either some DR, more HP, or some healing power. Perhaps the healing power that the named mobs in shroud have? That way it forces players to pull and work them down.

    Also out of the 20, none spawned a chest.
    I believe the chance at a chest only comes from orange named champions.

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