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  1. #1
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    Default Change to Epic Glimpse of the Soul

    This item has +6 Illusion and Enchantment saves - this may sound good, but it is the same resist type as normal +X resistance items, making the two effects effectively worthless as any character at level 27 should have equipped an item with resistance higher than +6.

    Please consider changing the type to "Insightful Illusion/Enchantment Save" - that would make the effects actually do something. Otherwise, they are meaningless and may as well be removed as not to mislead someone not reading the effect type.

  2. #2
    Community Member gravisrs's Avatar
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    +1 on this

    I believe there will be implemented some additional upgrade mechanism to current necro4 epic items. Like it was on heroic.
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  3. #3
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    I kinda have to disagree with your suggestion a bit OP. Not because I think the item doesn't need a bit of a buff, but because I think that making it a stacking +6 to both saves would be problematic.

    Specialised items like this, where it boosts certain things but not others should be slightly higher than generic items available at the same level.

    What I mean by this is that if at level 27 you can wear a Resistance +8 (Making up numbers to illustrate because I'm too lazy to check what the resistance level is for 27) then a specialised item like this should give +10 to their resistances. The trade-off is that you can be slightly higher in certain saves but lacking in others unless you wear both items which means two slots used.

    Making them stack could potentially lead to mandatory slotting of certain items for certain quests due to power creep (I.e. Turbine designing content around players wearing this item plus the max resistance item at that level). This would mean that anyone not doing it, is screwed.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Alternative's Avatar
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    Not only that, but anyone serious already runs with perma fom and deathblock, so even if stacking those saves would only help against hypno and hypnotic pattern which are rarely used in high level content and even then they are broken on dmg, shows the designer doesn't play the game most likely.
    Last edited by Alternative; 10-17-2014 at 01:57 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Aliss7's Avatar
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    The intercession ward is also some type of 50/50 luck based thing that kinda works sometimes, but not really. Was really disappointing when in mod.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    I kinda have to disagree with your suggestion a bit OP. Not because I think the item doesn't need a bit of a buff, but because I think that making it a stacking +6 to both saves would be problematic.

    Specialised items like this, where it boosts certain things but not others should be slightly higher than generic items available at the same level.

    What I mean by this is that if at level 27 you can wear a Resistance +8 (Making up numbers to illustrate because I'm too lazy to check what the resistance level is for 27) then a specialised item like this should give +10 to their resistances. The trade-off is that you can be slightly higher in certain saves but lacking in others unless you wear both items which means two slots used.

    Making them stack could potentially lead to mandatory slotting of certain items for certain quests due to power creep (I.e. Turbine designing content around players wearing this item plus the max resistance item at that level). This would mean that anyone not doing it, is screwed.
    I agree actually. Make the item a non stacking +12 or +13, since epic boots of the innocent has +11 generic resistance.

    Or remove the effects.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliss7 View Post
    The intercession ward is also some type of 50/50 luck based thing that kinda works sometimes, but not really. Was really disappointing when in mod.
    It isn't; it's buggy. Bug report it when it doesn't work so it can be fixed. Devs commented on this in another thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    I kinda have to disagree with your suggestion a bit OP. Not because I think the item doesn't need a bit of a buff, but because I think that making it a stacking +6 to both saves would be problematic.

    Specialised items like this, where it boosts certain things but not others should be slightly higher than generic items available at the same level.

    What I mean by this is that if at level 27 you can wear a Resistance +8 (Making up numbers to illustrate because I'm too lazy to check what the resistance level is for 27) then a specialised item like this should give +10 to their resistances. The trade-off is that you can be slightly higher in certain saves but lacking in others unless you wear both items which means two slots used.

    Making them stack could potentially lead to mandatory slotting of certain items for certain quests due to power creep (I.e. Turbine designing content around players wearing this item plus the max resistance item at that level). This would mean that anyone not doing it, is screwed.
    these +6 saves are both worthless. a +8 Resistance augment overrides both of these effects.
    Other items have +11 saves that are all encompassing.
    If you are looking to Emerald Gaze its not for these effects.

    This has nothing to do with power creep or trade off.. they are just filler effects that have no useful value.
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    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    these +6 saves are both worthless. a +8 Resistance augment overrides both of these effects.
    Other items have +11 saves that are all encompassing.
    If you are looking to Emerald Gaze its not for these effects.

    This has nothing to do with power creep or trade off.. they are just filler effects that have no useful value.
    May I suggest that you try reading what I actually wrote again?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    May I suggest that you try reading what I actually wrote again?
    I did read it.
    suggesting to increase the bonus from +6 to +10 is still worthless and pointless considering there are two items
    (belt of thoughtful remembrance and boots of the innocent) that offer all encompassing resistance +11.
    The raid even has a ring (Circle of Malevolence ) that has a +12 resistance (all encompassing)

    ...besides the fact that random +10 resistance( all encompassing) along with a +10 stat items are abundant at level 27 (check out the Wheloon chain end reward list for random drops).
    The only way to make these bonuses useful is to make them stacking and by virtue of stacking they would need to have their +6 reduced to a more reasonable amount.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 10-20-2014 at 08:46 PM.
    Jotmon -
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I did read it.
    suggesting to increase the bonus from +6 to +10 is still worthless and pointless considering there are two items
    (belt of thoughtful remembrance and boots of the innocent) that offer all encompassing resistance +11.

    ...besides the fact that random +10 resistance( all encompassing) along with a +10 stat items are abundant at level 27 (check out the Wheloon chain end reward list for random drops).
    The only way to make these bonuses useful is to make them stacking and by virtue of stacking they would need to have their +6 reduced to a more reasonable amount.
    Then I'm afraid that you have managed to misinterpret what I wrote somehow.

    I'll simplify it for you.

    The OP suggested changing the +6 bonus to saves to a stacking +6 to saves.

    I disagreed.

    I suggested that it should not stack but should instead be higher than the resistance item that can be used at that level.
    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    Then I'm afraid that you have managed to misinterpret what I wrote somehow.

    I'll simplify it for you.

    The OP suggested changing the +6 bonus to saves to a stacking +6 to saves.

    I disagreed.

    I suggested that it should not stack but should instead be higher than the resistance item that can be used at that level.
    That would still be useless. Two illusion spells enemies can cast that do anything to us, PK(barely anything casts this, and we cab easily prevent it otherwise) and hypnotic pattern(no high level mob casts this).

    Enchantment spells cast by enemies would be hold monster(fom), command(prot from evil), ottos dance, touch of idiocy, and feeblemind. Most of which is easily avoidable and the other are only used in very rare occasions by mobs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post
    That would still be useless. Two illusion spells enemies can cast that do anything to us, PK(barely anything casts this, and we cab easily prevent it otherwise) and hypnotic pattern(no high level mob casts this).

    Enchantment spells cast by enemies would be hold monster(fom), command(prot from evil), ottos dance, touch of idiocy, and feeblemind. Most of which is easily avoidable and the other are only used in very rare occasions by mobs.
    I'm not defending the item. Nor am I defending the dev's choice of saves to place upon it.

    What I'm doing is attempting to offer a realistic compromise that stands a whelks chance in a supernova of actually happening.

    Which is more likely to happen?

    1: The dev's go back to the drawing board and completely redesign the item.

    2: The dev's tweak the numbers.

    I will make one comment on one of the things you said. Namely Protection from Evil preventing command. It's possible that the dev's have since changed their minds and it's now classified as WAI, but the last I saw a dev comment on Protection from Evil was to say that the spell was bugged and wasn't supposed to work like that. The useless items that only offer +1 to saves and don't protect from Command? According to Turbine those are supposedly WAI.

    And yes, it's stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    Average man learns from his mistakes
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  14. #14
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    Then I'm afraid that you have managed to misinterpret what I wrote somehow.

    I'll simplify it for you.

    The OP suggested changing the +6 bonus to saves to a stacking +6 to saves.

    I disagreed.

    I suggested that it should not stack but should instead be higher than the resistance item that can be used at that level.
    While I agree +6 stacking is a bit much, however, a +10 non-stacking is still worthless given the examples I cited in my post above.
    The bonus is only useful if it is a stacking bonus ( reduced to +2/+3 of course), while to be fair...

    MooCow does bring up a good point about current content not having any high level content that utilizes a need for these bonuses.
    but in future ... perhaps...
    Jotmon -
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200
    Argo-Jotmon(HC 28/42,EC 26/36,IC 17/15,RC 14/30), Jotlock(HC 38/42,EC 36/36,IC 15/15, RC 0/30)..
    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    While I agree +6 stacking is a bit much, however, a +10 non-stacking is still worthless given the examples I cited in my post above.
    The bonus is only useful if it is a stacking bonus ( reduced to +2/+3 of course), while to be fair...

    MooCow does bring up a good point about current content not having any high level content that utilizes a need for these bonuses.
    but in future ... perhaps...
    It's not my intention to be argumentative with you, but I would like to point out that the +10 you've repeated a couple of times was stated as an example I even said so.
    if at level 27 you can wear a Resistance +8 (Making up numbers to illustrate because I'm too lazy to check what the resistance level is for 27) then a specialised item like this should give +10 to their resistances
    Quote Originally Posted by gphysalis View Post
    Average man learns from his mistakes
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  16. #16
    Community Member Erofen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klixen View Post
    This item has +6 Illusion and Enchantment saves - this may sound good, but it is the same resist type as normal +X resistance items, making the two effects effectively worthless as any character at level 27 should have equipped an item with resistance higher than +6.

    Please consider changing the type to "Insightful Illusion/Enchantment Save" - that would make the effects actually do something. Otherwise, they are meaningless and may as well be removed as not to mislead someone not reading the effect type.
    iirc someone in Titan chat mentioned that it stacked in effects log and in testing.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    It isn't; it's buggy. Bug report it when it doesn't work so it can be fixed. Devs commented on this in another thread.
    or the one Death Knight in MoD that you face twice has a quell that is unable to be stopped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Um, I'm almost afraid to ask, but exactly just what is 'sneak humping'? Kex! Stop It! O.o

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erofen View Post
    iirc someone in Titan chat mentioned that it stacked in effects log and in testing.
    Agreed, from what i know these always used to stack...
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  19. #19
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
    the designer doesn't play the game most likely.

    You're just now figuring this out? My friends and I have a theory that Turbine employees are explicitly forbidden from ever playing the games they work on. It's the only possible explanation.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klixen View Post
    This item has +6 Illusion and Enchantment saves - this may sound good, but it is the same resist type as normal +X resistance items, making the two effects effectively worthless as any character at level 27 should have equipped an item with resistance higher than +6.

    Please consider changing the type to "Insightful Illusion/Enchantment Save" - that would make the effects actually do something. Otherwise, they are meaningless and may as well be removed as not to mislead someone not reading the effect type.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    these +6 saves are both worthless. a +8 Resistance augment overrides both of these effects.
    Other items have +11 saves that are all encompassing.
    If you are looking to Emerald Gaze its not for these effects.

    This has nothing to do with power creep or trade off.. they are just filler effects that have no useful value.
    Effects that provide bonuses to saves - Such as "+X Resistance" items, or Sapphires of Resistance augments - do already stack with effects that provide bonuses to saves from individual schools (such as the +6 to Illusion and Enchantment saves found on the Epic Glimpse the Soul), even if they are the same bonus type. We'll look into a possible wording change to make this more clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliss7 View Post
    The intercession ward is also some type of 50/50 luck based thing that kinda works sometimes, but not really. Was really disappointing when in mod.
    There was an issue with Intercession Ward not blocking the Aura of Intercession from one of the Death Knights in the Raid. It should be fixed in the next patch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alternative View Post
    shows the designer doesn't play the game most likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    My friends and I have a theory that Turbine employees are explicitly forbidden from ever playing the games they work on. It's the only possible explanation.
    These kinds of statements violate community guidelines, and are also untrue.

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