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  1. #1
    Executive Producer Severlin's Avatar
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    Default Potential changes to healing amplification

    Greetings,

    Today we want to discuss healing amplification. Our goal is to adjust it to be additive rather than multiplicative, in a way that benefits many players while minimizing the “nerf” to current players, particularly players who have created builds that extend into the extreme ranges of the current Healing Amplification system. We realize that any additive system will impact some players who are stacking Healing Amplification to the extreme, but in many cases this will have a beneficial or neutral impact to builds.

    Why change it? We'd like introduce new sources of healing amplification on new items, but the team has been reluctant to do so with the current system because it is too powerful when stacked extremely high, and not good enough in small doses. With these changes we could add more items with healing amplification. We’d also like to give Barbarians lots of Healing Amplification as part of the Barbarian pass, but it just isn’t possible with our current multiplicative model.

    Our current plan is to make Healing Amplification an additive rating and, to make it more effective in smaller doses, double the current values on enhancements and other sources of Healing Amplification. Healing Amplification would become a rating so it works just like Melee Power, Ranged Power and Spellpower. That is, Healing Amplification rating increases all healing by (100 + Rating) / 100. This would keep the game systems consistent. Repair Amplification would work the same, as well as values that allowed Pale Masters to heal with Negative Energy healing.

    The current percentage values would be converted into a rating and then, to keep Healing Amplification competitive, the rating would be doubled. 10% Healing Amplification would become a rating of 20. 20% Healing Amplification would become a rating of 40.

    To summarize:

    ~ Healing Amplication is turned into a rating which is additive.
    ~ Sources of Healing Amplication converted to an integer value and doubled.

    As an example, the Human enhancement Improved Recovery would now give +20 Healing Amplification. If you also took the Paladin enhancement Vigor of Life from the Knight of the Chalice tree, it would provide +20 Healing Amplification for a total of 40. In this new case the character would increase all healing by a multiplier of 1.4 instead of a multiplier of 1.21.

    Thus in smaller amounts players would see a buff.

    What will this do to actual builds?

    Let’s look at a build with healing amplification to see how it is affected.


    Our first build has two Paladin past lives (currently 10%), healing amplification from Vigor of Life (currently 10%), a 30% healing amplification source, and a 20% healing amplification source.

    On live this would be 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.3 * 1.2 for a total multiplier of ~1.887.

    Under the new system this would be 20 + 20 + 60 + 40 for 140 Healing Amplification, which would be a multiplier to healing of 2.4 which is an increase in effectiveness.


    Now let’s look at an extreme Human/Monk/Paladin hybrid build to see how high we can stack Healing Amplification currently.

    Code:
    Source			Multiplier	Product			
    Base for Living		1		100%		12 Monk
    Fleshmaker		1.1		110%		5 Paladin
    Human 1			1.1		121%			
    2			1.1		133%			
    3			1.1		146%			
    Monks Shintao		1.05		154%			
    3			1.05		161%			
    6			1.05		169%			
    12			1.05		178%				
    Paladin t3		1.1		196%			
    Paladin 4		1.1		272%			
    Paladin 5		1.1		272%			
    Crown of Summer (Druid)	1.15		272%			
    Item 10%		1.1		300%			
    Item 20%		1.2		360%			
    Item 30%		1.3		467%			
    Paladin PL x3		1.15		538%			
    Jidz-Tet'ka		1.25		672%			
    Guild			1.1		739%			
    Exalted Angel		1.03		761%			
    Exalted Angel		1.03		784%			
    Exalted Angel		1.04		816%			
    Unyielding Sentinel	1.1		897%
    How this would look with the new system:

    Code:
    
    Source			Multiplier	Product			
    Base for Living		1.0		1.0		12 Monk
    Fleshmaker		+20		1.2		5 Paladin
    Human 1			+20		1.4			
    2			+20		1.6			
    3			+20		1.8			
    Monks Shintao		+10		1.9			
    3			+10		2.0			
    6			+10		2.1			
    12			+10		2.2			
    Paladin t3		+20		2.4			
    Paladin 4		+20		2.6			
    Paladin 5		+20		2.8			
    Crown of Summer (Druid)	+30		3.1			
    Item 10%		+20		3.3			
    Item 20%		+40		3.7			
    Item 30%		+60		4.3			
    Paladin PL x3		+30		4.6			
    Jidz-Tet'ka		+50		5.1			
    Guild			+20		5.3			
    Exalted Angel		+6		5.36			
    Exalted Angel		+6		5.42			
    Exalted Angel		+8		5.5			
    Unyielding Sentinel	+20		5.7
    
    As you can see, this would be a buff to most builds, and a nerf to extreme Healing Amplication stacking because it’s additive. Any build that currently had less than 250% healing amplification would be buffed, while builds with more than 250% healing amplification would see a reduction in effectiveness.

    Stacking
    Our current plan is that all existing sources of healing amplification will stack as they do today, but they will be given various bonus types so players will be able to understand how they will stack with potential future items and enhancements.


    When looking at these changes, players should know the following:

    ~ This system would allow us to start putting stacking Healing Amp on high level items again.
    ~ Barbarians would be getting sources of Healing Amplification in their trees.

    Sev~

  2. #2
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Monks and monk splashes still need healing amp to be survivable.
    Especially since they cannot benefit from heavy armor or decent PRR without losing monk stance benefits.
    Paladins benefit from healing amp self healing ability and the ability to wear heavy armor.

    Keep this in mind so you don't mistakenly screw over monks & robe based monk splashes.

    Wold be interested to see the comparison of How the impact is on lesser vampiric wraps and healing curse FOL from monk impacted


    See finger necklace (Fleshmaker) on your list... this has always worked differently then other healing amp items. is this being standardized as well?
    Jidz-Tet'ka - I would not double these. its a lower level item that should be replaced at endgame not sought after.
    Item 10,20,30.. should stay 10,20,30... Add new rare items/augments that go higher.
    Guild should not change. leave at 10. No reason for guild bonus to give increased benefit.


    Jidz-Tet'ka and Fleshmaker should be removed from your comparison calculation , they are not ideal endgame items , they are only used for maxing out hamp... although your comparison is essentially theretical anyway for some sort of max amp build.


    Can you look at consolidating the Repair amp, heal amp, negative amp into just heal amp.too many different sources makes it difficult to maintain versatility.
    WF would have to mix and match repair amp and heal amp for incoming heals. PM's are already screwed for amp items.
    Make them all the same and make any beneficial energy be amped by the same items/augments/destinies/etc.....
    Last edited by JOTMON; 10-14-2014 at 03:33 PM.
    Jotmon -
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    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  3. #3
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    Still not happy but not sounding as bad as I feared


    Beware the Sleepeater

  4. #4
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    Somebody translate this into and Excel formula for me? Thanks.

  5. #5
    Community Member Janitorman's Avatar
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    Thumbs down dissapointed...

    Major nerf to heal amp builds that already sacrificed, imo, too much as is just to get satisfying returns from CSW pots, fists of light, and vamp weapons. Having played several heal amp builds, to go all out as in the example above, you cut your effectiveness to the point that it is a fun flavor build for EH but huge slog in EE that is usually unsuccessful do to mob scaling. I can see that if higher tiers of Vampiric were ever to be introduced, heal amp might need to be reigned in, but 1-3 even x8 is still only 8-24.

    As things are looking now, this is a huge boost to most builds, but sadly the death of heal amp builds. Glad I TRd my main into a heal amp build after seeing the initial panic so as to squeeze what little fun is left before the end.

    Was secretly optimistic for new heal amp stuff to be introduced, now it won't even matter.
    Still love this game...

  6. #6
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    How will War Forged Healer's Friend by treated?
    Khyber -- Grubbby, Grubonon, Gralak, and all the gang of *grubs* in the Homeboys of Stormreach.

  7. #7
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    Love it.

    that is all.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Just remove healing amp and Monks. These things are ruining the game.
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  9. #9
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    Somebody who understands this . . .

    Would a 3 pally-PL human with 30%, 20% items and 30% racial see a buff or a nerf?

    That's 290% versus 235% on live?

    Right?
    Last edited by Bridge_Dweller; 10-14-2014 at 03:12 PM.

  10. #10
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    Hi,

    This looks better than what I was expecting. Well done.

    One problem with healing amp gear is that it's concentrated in too few slots. Perhaps some more choice could be added for heal amp gear too.

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  11. #11
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    +10 communication. Keep it coming!
    +1 Like the thought and appreciate the idea
    +1 Yes buff the Barbarian!

    Questions:

    Will the Healing Amp and Repair Amp now show on the character sheet like SP/MP/RP? (YES it should be there)
    So thinking of buffing Paladin Past Life feat from 5% per past life to ? 10?
    So thinking of buffing the Bladeforged Past Life feat as well?
    How about adding Healing Amp as an Epic Past Life feat? (sorry made a mistake and fixed)
    Will new sources be available as an augment? Color?
    Will new sources be named items? (of course)
    Will new sources be in the random loot gen?
    How will this affect Greensteel and existing (sounds like doubling existing into integers)?

    Last edited by UurlockYgmeov; 10-14-2014 at 03:09 PM. Reason: my kobold powered spell checker is on Union Break and is drunk on Healing Amp

  12. #12
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    Will existing items with specific exceptions be classified as an enhancement bonus?

    Will we be able to get whatever bonus it is through augments at any point?

    Will we be able to get an equivalent "Insight" bonus to Healing Amplification Rating through either other special items or augments?


    Loving it so far, looking forward to it!
    Thanks!

  13. #13
    Community Member streep101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Don't see finger necklace on your list... this has always worked differently then other healing amp items.

    It's the first item on the list: "Fleshmaker".
    Krackle (Cannith), Theoman (Cannith)

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Looks like the new heal amp system will provide more bang-for-your-heal-amp-point until you cross the 4x heal amp threshold, at which point it becomes a nerf for extreme heal-ampers. Which is par for course for these sorts of rules changes: a buff for the vast majority of builds, a nerf for the tiny minority of extremely minmaxed ones.

    Now, can we get more sources of heal amp in the PrEs so it's not just the province of humans, HEs, Harpers, monk, pallies, and soon-to-be barbs?
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  15. #15
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    Somebody translate this into and Excel formula for me? Thanks.
    The formula is pretty simple. But heres the effects on my main:

    Current:
    Monk Cores: (1.05*1.05*1.05*1.05*1.05*1.05)= 1.34
    Pally Past Lives 1.15
    Ship buff 1.1
    PDK Gloves: 1.3
    DT (1.1* 1.2)=1.32
    Divine Crusader=1.1
    1.34*1.15*1.1*1.3*1.32*1.1= 3.19= 319%

    New System:

    Monk Cores 60
    Pally Past Lives 30
    Ship Buffs 10
    PDK Gloves 60
    DT (20+40)= 60
    Divine Crusader=20
    ---------------------
    60+30+10+60+60+20=240
    (100+240)/100=3.4=340%

    So my medium heavy AMP build will go up from 319 to 340.
    Last edited by TPICKRELL; 10-14-2014 at 03:14 PM.
    Khyber -- Grubbby, Grubonon, Gralak, and all the gang of *grubs* in the Homeboys of Stormreach.

  16. #16
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    570% is not bad at all. 897% was pretty crazy, even if people "sacrifice" for it. I for one love this change as it will open it up to a lot more people at the lower/mid levels while still allowing decent build choices.

  17. #17
    Community Member Zavier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    Just remove healing amp and Monks. These things are ruining the game.
    Just remove the "everyone gets a trophy for showing up" mentality. This thing is ruining the game.

  18. #18
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    I'm extremely tired after a very long day at work, so it's possible that in my muddled state I'm getting this wrong, but could someone who can think more coherently than I can at the moment translate what this means to my pure Monk main please?

    20% Human, 10% and 20% DT vestments, 30% PDK Gloves, 25% Jidz, 3x Pally PL's, 10% Ship Buff All Tiers of Shintao (can't remember what that equals).

    My gut reaction is that Turbine have just bent my main over and shafted it without the courtesy of a reach around, but as I said I'm exhausted and it's possible my mind is translating it poorly.

    My main concern is that I use Fists of Light and Vampirism Wraps as primary healing sources and that if it's as bad as I fear they'll now be all but useless. Hoping I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Archangel666; 10-14-2014 at 03:17 PM.
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  19. #19
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    I'm extremely tired after a very long day at work, so it's possible that in my muddled state I'm getting this wrong, but could someone who can think more coherently than I can at the moment translate what this means to my pure Monk main please?

    20% Human, 10% and 20% DT vestments, 30% PDK Gloves, 25% Jidz, 3x Pally PL's, 10% Ship Buff All Tiers of Shintao (can't remember what that equals).

    My gut reaction is that Turbine have just bent my main over and shafted it without the courtesy of a reach around, but as I said I'm exhausted and it's possible my mind is translating it poorly.

    My main concern is that I use Fists of Light and Vampirism Wraps as primary healing sources and that if it's as bad as I fear they'll now be all but useless. Hoping I'm wrong.
    If I copied everything into my excel spreadsheet correctly----

    That will be going from 1.2*1.1*1.2*1.25*1.15*1.1*1.34=4.3
    To (100+40+20+40+30+50+30+20+60)/100=3.9
    Khyber -- Grubbby, Grubonon, Gralak, and all the gang of *grubs* in the Homeboys of Stormreach.

  20. #20

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    As a guy who stacks healing amp gear and enhancements on all* my alts, this new system sounds perfectly acceptable. Good design.

    *Except the pale master.

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