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  1. #1
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    Default Question about Lay Waste

    Since there is no knockdown DC listed in description (other than 10+STR modifier+character level, but no actual number)... Does anyone know if tactical bonuses apply to that DC? Things like fighter past lives, tactician feat and legendary tactics? And is there a way to check?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gempoult View Post
    Since there is no knockdown DC listed in description (other than 10+STR modifier+character level, but no actual number)... Does anyone know if tactical bonuses apply to that DC? Things like fighter past lives, tactician feat and legendary tactics? And is there a way to check?
    Well, I didn't do particularly serious research, but it seemed to me that my regular trip was slightly more effective at tripping than lay waste.
    At the time I had +10 vertigo, +5 exceptional mastery, +3 trip focus from TA and +6 legendary tactics. I don't remember the level, but if lay waste included even just 1-2 of these bonuses, I'm pretty sure I'd remember it being my go-to button for tripping casters, instead of spam-on-trash-to-save-trip-for-casters one.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Well, I didn't do particularly serious research, but it seemed to me that my regular trip was slightly more effective at tripping than lay waste.
    At the time I had +10 vertigo, +5 exceptional mastery, +3 trip focus from TA and +6 legendary tactics. I don't remember the level, but if lay waste included even just 1-2 of these bonuses, I'm pretty sure I'd remember it being my go-to button for tripping casters, instead of spam-on-trash-to-save-trip-for-casters one.
    So you are saying in your experience neither of them apply but you are not 100% sure? Thanks for the info, anyone else with actual testing?

  4. #4
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    I felt like my Lay Waste's tripping effect improved when I got my Epic Blademark's Docent for the first time and went from no vertigo to a +15, but I didn't test it out in any sort of scientific way.

  5. #5
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    Dualboxed some PvP to test this.

    The attacker, according to the formula, would have a base DC of 10 + 28 + 20 = 58.

    The target has a balance of 50.

    With a stun weapon:
    5 + 50 = fail
    12 + 50 = save

    With a trip weapon +12:
    7 + 50 = fail
    9 + 50 = save

    Conclusion: feats, past lives (character has 2x fighter past life, so should have failed on 59 in the second test round), item boosts don't matter for this ED ability.
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  6. #6
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    Nice one, Thalone! Very good work.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Well, I didn't do particularly serious research, but it seemed to me that my regular trip was slightly more effective at tripping than lay waste.
    At the time I had +10 vertigo, +5 exceptional mastery, +3 trip focus from TA and +6 legendary tactics. I don't remember the level, but if lay waste included even just 1-2 of these bonuses, I'm pretty sure I'd remember it being my go-to button for tripping casters, instead of spam-on-trash-to-save-trip-for-casters one.
    Spamming it? You sure you're talking about Lay Waste and not Momentum Swing?

    If you are, to be spamming it, you have to be relying on cleave resetting mom swing to reset lay waste. This is stated to only be able to happen after a certain amount of time, and if it triggers beforehand, currently, the icon becomes useable for ~2 seconds, then picks it's cooldown up where it left off. Perhaps it is only visually triggering, and you're not getting any ACTUAL lay waste to have the effect from.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalone View Post
    Dualboxed some PvP to test this.

    The attacker, according to the formula, would have a base DC of 10 + 28 + 20 = 58.

    The target has a balance of 50.

    With a stun weapon:
    5 + 50 = fail
    12 + 50 = save

    With a trip weapon +12:
    7 + 50 = fail
    9 + 50 = save

    Conclusion: feats, past lives (character has 2x fighter past life, so should have failed on 59 in the second test round), item boosts don't matter for this ED ability.
    Thanks, so it would be pretty much useless for my wisdom based monk.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliahuTheMighty View Post
    Spamming it? You sure you're talking about Lay Waste and not Momentum Swing?

    If you are, to be spamming it, you have to be relying on cleave resetting mom swing to reset lay waste. This is stated to only be able to happen after a certain amount of time, and if it triggers beforehand, currently, the icon becomes useable for ~2 seconds, then picks it's cooldown up where it left off. Perhaps it is only visually triggering, and you're not getting any ACTUAL lay waste to have the effect from.
    "Spamming" as in dropping it as soon as the cooldown resets. With more focus on spamming Momentum Swing. While pacing cleaves not to run into the 3 seconds reset limit. Yeah.
    It may be just me, but with the whole cooldown whack-a mole most of my attention was out of the battle, and I'm so relieved LD is no longer the be-all-end-all melee destiny.

  10. #10
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    considering "new" (post destiny) tactical abilities, DC increasing items/feats/enhancements don't apply unless it's specifically stated that they do

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