Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 61
  1. #1

    Default Stormreach Shadows: A Comprehensive Stealth Guide

    Update 19's revamp to the stealth system stoked me, especially when hearing it personally from Tolero and Producer Glin last year at GenCon Indy.

    I've enjoyed pushing the new abilities through Kiricletica, a Ninja Spy that has soloed much of the game without any assistance, in stealth, with a low-kill policy.

    And I've enjoyed what others have done with the new stealth system as read here.

    But still, many people are confused about how it works, or try to use it but with poor, even fatal results. They become discouraged or think the system is "broken."

    So, I thought to compile what I've done and what others have described and demonstrated into a concise guide can help those add as much stealth in their game as they'd like. Whether you want to have it handy only for emergencies or as part of a "Stealth Team Six" group, Stormreach Shadows can help you start off your training.

    But, in contrast to The Book of Syncletica, this guide is for all classes.
    And, this is a guide that asks you directly to help it grow.

    There are chapters for each guide for each class in preformatted sections.

    Right now, many are empty and in need of players who can detail stealth advantages and tactics, spells and gear found in that class that could be useful. Time prohibits me and Saekee, my assistant editor who's volunteered his time and talent, from playing every class and knowing every trick.

    If players have multiclassed options, we'll create subchapters there for them, too. Build information is also welcomed, but you must summarize the highlights of your build; raw data dumps from character creation tools are not acceptable.

    I welcome anyone to adopt a class chapter to detail information for classes you have played in stealth.

    To adopt a chapter
    1. Send me a Private Message with a Google GMail address
    2. Note what class chapter you'd like to adopt or
    3. Tell me what new sub-chapter for a multiclassed build that you'd like to write

    To be an editor, you must have a Google GMail address. It also follows that you must be an active player (played at least 1 hour per week for the last 6 months), as the game's rules change and only an active player will be able to accurately note gear, class trees, skills and the like.

    As the managing editor for the guide, I reserve absolute rights of control. I or Saekee will edit any and all content for content, brevity, appropriateness, grammar and the like. If we find that an edit or chapter isn't kosher with serious content or audience problems, we'll write you with a chance to correct it. If I don't hear back from you in a reasonable time, we'll do what is needed for the page, up to and including deletion. The guide has a specific focus and my job is to keep it from sprawling away from that focus.

    The guide's content itself is, like DDO Wiki, freely distributable by anyone to any medium. You can lift and copy information to wherever you like.

    You don't have to be the greatest writer to contribute, but we require the guide to use proper English grammar and punctuation. Write "before", not "B4": the guide wants to speak English, not Bingo.

    Once you're approved, I'll send you back an email and grant you access to the chapter and/or create a subchapter for you.

    You may also post brief tips, comments, corrections and content here in this thread.

    All contributions will give credit to its writer if desired (forum names only, please).

    Enjoy, and let Saekee and I know here if you see anything that needs correction or to express any comments or criticisms.
    Last edited by Spencerian; 09-15-2014 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Another important option
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

  2. #2
    Community Manager
    Cordovan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Boston Area, MA
    Posts
    25,564

    Default

    Very cool!
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
    Follow DDO on: Facebook Twitter Pinterest
    Join us on Twitch!
    Hello from Standing Stone Games! Facebook Twitter
    For Support: https://help.standingstonegames.com



  3. #3
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Yorkshire Toxic Fringe Zone
    Posts
    6,306

    Default

    What I learned from this is that Insidious Cunning deserves way more than a 10% XP bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    My words are great. Even out of context.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    What I learned from this is that Insidious Cunning deserves way more than a 10% XP bonus.
    Thanks! I totally agree. It should be greatly boosted. Never thought of that...Stealth play is like Permadeath in some ways; it is a whole game within DDO. But everyone benefits from knowing stealth. Maybe a party wipe and you, the last one standing, needs to sneak in and grab the soul stones...
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer), Saelegion (parked level 4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    Hope extinguished leaves fading memories of better times.

  5. #5
    Scourge of Slayers FAQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,057

    Default

    Very interesting. I haven't read the whole guide, so I don't know if Sannyasi is mentioned.

    On my rogue life, I tried to stealth a lot and I encountered some dificulty in Monastery at the end fight. I made a thread about his stealth detection seeming to be broken here. Shame, that seemed like the perfect boss to stealth.
    Keepers of Khyber - Proud Guild Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is how it should scale: Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.
    The Trophy Room A great idea. Please do this devs!

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    Very interesting. I haven't read the whole guide, so I don't know if Sannyasi is mentioned.

    On my rogue life, I tried to stealth a lot and I encountered some dificulty in Monastery at the end fight. I made a thread about his stealth detection seeming to be broken here. Shame, that seemed like the perfect boss to stealth.
    It is not complete and updates will be here and there; can you give us a link here? Do you have any vids? Nokowi has some awesome vids and I first learned from Ghoste's stuff as ArcaneConstruct on YouTube.
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer), Saelegion (parked level 4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    Hope extinguished leaves fading memories of better times.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    Very interesting. I haven't read the whole guide, so I don't know if Sannyasi is mentioned.

    On my rogue life, I tried to stealth a lot and I encountered some dificulty in Monastery at the end fight. I made a thread about his stealth detection seeming to be broken here. Shame, that seemed like the perfect boss to stealth.
    Sannyasi. Rhymes with "nasty."

    He doesn't get "Engine of Destruction" as a nickname for nothing. Boss of "Monastery of the Scorpion", filled with poser monks until you reach this guy. A scorrow high on acid-covered chocolate meth with a Jagermeister center nougat, this guy will see and attack you on sight, totally blowing the overly complicated puzzle you're supposed to solve before he trashes it or you're forced to attack him and trash the puzzle. PITA.

    The best strategy is to have a kiter group move the ol' boy around and away from the puzzle while your puzzle team solves things. Don't have a puzzle solver? Kill the guy. Bad DPS? You're hosed.

    I may make a chapter of quests where stealth isn't broken, but like in Monastery, it just gets nasty.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    What I learned from this is that Insidious Cunning deserves way more than a 10% XP bonus.
    Totally. It should be 15%.
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

  9. #9
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    11,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    What I learned from this is that Insidious Cunning deserves way more than a 10% XP bonus.


    Yes, but only if they figure out a way to tie it to actually agroing monsters, to prevent a reward for Invis running through dungeons.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  10. #10
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    11,051

    Default

    When talking about the races, you should probably mention Elf Dragon Marks.

    ...and mention it again when talking about classes that have few skill points/level.

    For instance, it is very difficult to make a pure Cleric stealthy. Mostly because they have so few skill points to use to build up a cross class skill. (and you need both Hide and Move Silently... and arguably Spot as well.)

    However, by making an Elf Dragon Marked Cleric, you could get away with only putting points into Move Silently and using Invisibility from the Dragon Mark.




    Edit: and Invisibility may deserve it's own section actually...
    Last edited by Talon_Moonshadow; 09-15-2014 at 04:10 PM.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  11. #11
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    11,051

    Default

    BTW, I am really impressed. Good Job.

    I keep seeing things.... little things. little details that many players miss. But you got it!


    I need to group with you! lol.


    Man I love just running toward the minefield in Undermine.... having the party freak out! Yelling WAIT!
    Then jumping in the air, hitting sneak mode.... and going throw the whole area, and waiting on the other side while the rest struggle..... lol.

    I usually start ranging the monsters from the other side to help them out though.
    (and go back to get stones... but that can be dangerous if any of them are still alive to blow me up...lol)
    Last edited by Talon_Moonshadow; 09-15-2014 at 04:22 PM.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  12. #12
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    11,051

    Default

    NM... again....lol
    I keep thinking you missed something then I find it....lol
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  13. #13
    Developer No_Dice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    34

    Thumbs up Stealth!

    This is awesome! Thanks for playing ; )

  14. #14
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Yorkshire Toxic Fringe Zone
    Posts
    6,306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Yes, but only if they figure out a way to tie it to actually agroing monsters, to prevent a reward for Invis running through dungeons.
    That is an extremely good point I hadn't considered (simply because that's not something I've ever done! Wouldn't even occur to me, I don't think laterally enough). Yes, you are correct sir. Let me rephrase:

    They should find a way to measure what constitutes a stealth run, and significantly up the XP bonus for achieving that.

    This well may be impossible, but if it is possible... they should make it so.

    Perhaps a simple record of DA being triggered? Yes, some stealth runs would be completely blown due to strange lag/detection effects like in Shavarath, and certain bugged quests. I know. But... if for the other however-many quests it is you could get a 30% bonus or something for a proper 'outwitted the enemy' type run, that would be great. Sometimes for stealth you will be using distraction and things which do deliberately aggro mobs (summonses, throwing a knife etc - I've been reading the guide, lol) so simple aggro shouldn't do it. But if you aggro enough at once that you trip DA?

    Assuming DA is working correctly and all (i know, I know), why could that not be an appropriate trigger condition to maybe just put you back to the current maximum for a no-kills run?

    Maybe they should keep the per quest bonus as it is, but add a Stealth Streak?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    My words are great. Even out of context.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    That is an extremely good point I hadn't considered (simply because that's not something I've ever done! Wouldn't even occur to me, I don't think laterally enough). Yes, you are correct sir. Let me rephrase:

    They should find a way to measure what constitutes a stealth run, and significantly up the XP bonus for achieving that.

    This well may be impossible, but if it is possible... they should make it so.

    Perhaps a simple record of DA being triggered? Yes, some stealth runs would be completely blown due to strange lag/detection effects like in Shavarath, and certain bugged quests. I know. But... if for the other however-many quests it is you could get a 30% bonus or something for a proper 'outwitted the enemy' type run, that would be great. Sometimes for stealth you will be using distraction and things which do deliberately aggro mobs (summonses, throwing a knife etc - I've been reading the guide, lol) so simple aggro shouldn't do it. But if you aggro enough at once that you trip DA?

    Assuming DA is working correctly and all (i know, I know), why could that not be an appropriate trigger condition to maybe just put you back to the current maximum for a no-kills run?

    Maybe they should keep the per quest bonus as it is, but add a Stealth Streak?
    stealth streak would be an awesome idea!
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist), Naerfelka (farmer), Saelegion (parked level 4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post
    Hope extinguished leaves fading memories of better times.

  16. #16
    Scourge of Slayers FAQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,057

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    It is not complete and updates will be here and there; can you give us a link here? Do you have any vids? Nokowi has some awesome vids and I first learned from Ghoste's stuff as ArcaneConstruct on YouTube.
    The link from the thread I made describing Sannyasi's unusual behavior is here

    Also, that thread has links to 3 old threads describing how it cannot be stealthed anymore.

    No videos, sorry.
    Keepers of Khyber - Proud Guild Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is how it should scale: Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.
    The Trophy Room A great idea. Please do this devs!

  17. #17
    Scourge of Slayers FAQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,057

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencerian View Post
    Sannyasi. Rhymes with "nasty."

    He doesn't get "Engine of Destruction" as a nickname for nothing. Boss of "Monastery of the Scorpion", filled with poser monks until you reach this guy. A scorrow high on acid-covered chocolate meth with a Jagermeister center nougat, this guy will see and attack you on sight, totally blowing the overly complicated puzzle you're supposed to solve before he trashes it or you're forced to attack him and trash the puzzle. PITA.

    The best strategy is to have a kiter group move the ol' boy around and away from the puzzle while your puzzle team solves things. Don't have a puzzle solver? Kill the guy. Bad DPS? You're hosed.

    I may make a chapter of quests where stealth isn't broken, but like in Monastery, it just gets nasty.
    Yeah, he is tough. I knew the kiting tactics when I went in. It was just a really big disapointment that this whole quest, which is practically made for stealth mode, prohibits you from stealthing in the boss fight by making the boss locate you no matter what, bypassing stealth paramenters (no search icon appears, no red footsteps, no tremorsense etc). I went in way overlevel on normal with ~90 hide and move silently and he stil made a bee line towards me.

    IMO, stealth is broken in the end fight. But as I gather from old info, it was "broken" on purpose by devs (or who ever called the shots at the time) that thought it was too easy to stealth. Opinions will differ, of course, but I hate this type of DM "cheating".
    Keepers of Khyber - Proud Guild Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is how it should scale: Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.
    The Trophy Room A great idea. Please do this devs!

  18. #18
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Yes, but only if they figure out a way to tie it to actually agroing monsters, to prevent a reward for Invis running through dungeons.
    I'm glad the whole topic of insidious cunning not being worth enough has been brought up. It takes much longer to stealth a quest than to zerg it and many people cannot stealth them anyway. A means up time/xp balance would be needed in order for stealth to be considered anything other than a niche playstyle.

    Look at completion times for a zerg vs a stealthed run. Something like 2 - 4x is my best guess. Now imagine giving insidious cunning a 200-400% bonus... (thus evening the time/xp playing field.) But then you can zerg to the end and get the bonus... so...

    Tie it to agro. Our current agro monitoring system is dungeon alert (as much as I hate it.)
    Insideous cunning bonus starts at 200% (or 400 or 10000, whatever is deemed appropriate.) Each activation of dungeon alert is a minus to that number.
    green -10% and another 10% every 10 seconds it remains.
    yellow -10% stacking etc...

    So in practice as the dungeon alert ramps up you get
    green, -10
    5 seconds later it hits yellow -10 more
    5 seconds later green has been active for 10 seconds for another -10
    5 seconds later yellow ticks for -10 more and then you clear it back down to green
    5 seconds later green ticks again -10 and then you clear it back down to nothing.

    So you see a yellow alert that lasted 21-25 seconds killed 50%.

    If you get up to red you are -40 just as it stepped up and -40 every 10 seconds. Anyone zerging and triggering a lot of DA will not get the cunning bonus, but someone who is careful and doesn't get agro can get the whole bonus.

    Note: not getting DA by means of killing doesn't get this bonus either, because it is the insidious cunning bonus and you can only get this or a kill bonus, not both.

    There are quests where DA is broken and thus this would not work, but it could be a huge bonus in quests without broken DA.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by No_Dice View Post
    This is awesome! Thanks for playing ; )
    It's the very changes that you and your team had done in U19 that made it possible. Thank you!

    (And once you make the Assassin glitches with aggroing nearby things after assassinating when no one should notice, we are all pretty much set. )
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    When talking about the races, you should probably mention Elf Dragon Marks.

    ...and mention it again when talking about classes that have few skill points/level.

    For instance, it is very difficult to make a pure Cleric stealthy. Mostly because they have so few skill points to use to build up a cross class skill. (and you need both Hide and Move Silently... and arguably Spot as well.)

    However, by making an Elf Dragon Marked Cleric, you could get away with only putting points into Move Silently and using Invisibility from the Dragon Mark.




    Edit: and Invisibility may deserve it's own section actually...
    That's what we realized in our studies as we built the guide, especially for non-stealth classes. But yes, boost MS first as there's gear and stacking Hide spells to help that, and Invisibility when farther out. Only one spell in game helps block Listen checks, and that's an upper-end Druid spell.

    I want to keep Invisibility with Hide as it works as Spot immunity but only if used properly as comparison and contrast. Too loud, and you're hosed.

    Thanks for reminding us about Dragonmarks. I know any advantages with those aren't in the guide yet, so we'll note them in the Races info since that can really stretch a player's effectiveness with AP. Thanks for the input!
    Editor, The Book of Syncletica: An unofficial DDO Monk Guide, and Stormreach Shadows: An unofficial DDO Stealth Guide
    The Order of Syncletica: A DDO-flavored blog on Monks and gameplay and more

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload