Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default adrenaline and defensive stance

    last time i tried, adrenaline wasnt working with defensive stance active. if it is working currently (or is planned to) id love to know about it.

    i get why its like this, but i dont think it serves any useful function for adrenaline (pretty much the entire point of fotw) to not be fully compatible with dps fighters and paladins, pretty much 100% of whom are going to have defensive stance in u23 if they dont already.

    not that i dont like dc or ld, but, cmon man encourage multiple playstyles and options and all that...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

  2. #2
    Community Member Pescha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    505

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    last time i tried, adrenaline wasnt working with defensive stance active. if it is working currently (or is planned to) id love to know about it.

    i get why its like this, but i dont think it serves any useful function for adrenaline (pretty much the entire point of fotw) to not be fully compatible with dps fighters and paladins, pretty much 100% of whom are going to have defensive stance in u23 if they dont already.

    not that i dont like dc or ld, but, cmon man encourage multiple playstyles and options and all that...
    Adrenaline never worked when you had a defensive stance active because it is considered a rage effect, as workaround you could turn it off/on on demand.

  3. #3
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pescha View Post
    Adrenaline never worked when you had a defensive stance active because it is considered a rage effect, as workaround you could turn it off/on on demand.
    i know its a rage effect, and i know its work around. i dont like that work around because defensive stance has a one minute cd. its fine for primal scream if 3 str really helps you that much, but then again primal has a 3 minute duration.

    if adrenaline continues to be a rage effect it just means half of the builds im planning to use in u23 will never be able to use this tree. thats why id like for adrenaline (and only adrenaline) to not be a rage effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

  4. #4
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    5,497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    i dont like that work around because defensive stance has a one minute cd.
    At least that cooldown is much shorter on lamma. Can't check at the moment but it was more like 10 - 15 seconds.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
    Ghallanda - Ethrayne - Ethryne --- Omnipresence
    Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKVn...wLuzB2Q/videos

  5. #5
    Community Member walkin_dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,364

    Default

    Sounds like that's all about a trade-off between offensive power and defensive. Sounds okay the way it is.

    What, with the game being too easy and all ...
    Sarlona: Aramzim, Attickus, Behren, Daaghda, Darksyde, Fyggaro, Oldero
    Argonessen: Egyll, Ghrae, Mitrel, Physz, Sanjurow, Schaeleen
    Thelanis: Aarlyss, Eagynn | Ghallanda: Glooming | Khyber: Ghrae

  6. #6
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    if the cd on defensive stance gets lowered to 15 seconds then the workaround is acceptable but still a pita, and will cost 6 str and 25 prr for a few seconds every time. actually even if its a 15 sec cd i still dont like it. its sad because with the nerf to blitz i wouldve liked to use fury more, not even for the furyshot. how about fury shot is removed, ranged combat becomes normal again and adrenaline is no longer a rage effect?

    its not a tradeoff between offensive and defensive power imo. its a tradeoff between not using a tree on a pure fighter or being dead. thats just dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

  7. #7
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    if the cd on defensive stance gets lowered to 15 seconds then the workaround is acceptable but still a pita, and will cost 6 str and 25 prr for a few seconds every time. actually even if its a 15 sec cd i still dont like it. its sad because with the nerf to blitz i wouldve liked to use fury more, not even for the furyshot. how about fury shot is removed, ranged combat becomes normal again and adrenaline is no longer a rage effect?

    its not a tradeoff between offensive and defensive power imo. its a tradeoff between not using a tree on a pure fighter or being dead. thats just dumb.
    It's even dumber to forget to press shift when writing the first letter of a new sentence .
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  8. #8
    Community Member walkin_dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    its not a tradeoff between offensive and defensive power imo. its a tradeoff between not using a tree on a pure fighter or being dead. thats just dumb.
    ::shrug::

    Seems like a tradeoff to me. You can stay in defensive stance, or you can use rage effects. One might even say it's a lavish boon that a rage effect like primal scream remains in effect once you resume the defensive stance.
    Sarlona: Aramzim, Attickus, Behren, Daaghda, Darksyde, Fyggaro, Oldero
    Argonessen: Egyll, Ghrae, Mitrel, Physz, Sanjurow, Schaeleen
    Thelanis: Aarlyss, Eagynn | Ghallanda: Glooming | Khyber: Ghrae

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    303

    Default

    The problem is not that it doens't work, the problem is that it isn't clear that it doesn't work and you usually find out well after you planned your build.

  10. #10
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    It's even dumber to forget to press shift when writing the first letter of a new sentence .
    actually its a lifestyle choice to reduce stress. the alternative for me is full on ocd and grammar-nazism. dont change the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    ::shrug::

    Seems like a tradeoff to me. You can stay in defensive stance, or you can use rage effects. One might even say it's a lavish boon that a rage effect like primal scream remains in effect once you resume the defensive stance.
    its a tradeoff if were talking about hefty defensive benefits vs a few points of str or some damage dice. primal scream having a workaround is wrong to me personally, but i dont care that much because i think primal scream is overrated anyway. right now it doesnt matter because pure fighters and pallies are at best ok compared to alternate multiclass ftr/pally builds, and dreadnaught is so massively superior to fury anyway. in u23 this will matter a whole lot more. this is not about tablescrap abilities like primal scream, its about the entire point of a whole entire destiny which is about to become way more relevant not being usable on builds which are going to become a lot more usable. but if its not clear enough to you and/or the devs, here is my choice. when im playing a pure fighter or paladin in u23, i will not ever use this destiny. /wasted dev time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rull View Post
    The problem is not that it doens't work, the problem is that it isn't clear that it doesn't work and you usually find out well after you planned your build.
    that is a problem. the fact that it doesnt work however is the much bigger fish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

  11. #11
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,065

    Default

    Shouldn't work together at all, IMO. I'd even like to see defensive stance dispel rage effects, if possible - rage is supposed to be a hit to your defensive abilities.

    Also, "my dream build won't work" is a poor argument. I'm sure many people would like to mix barb with monk or bard with pally, but that doesn't mean they should lift those restrictions. Neither should they do it here.

    Also this is why I said over in the official discussion thread that they shouldn't allow medium armor users to go into defender stance, cause now you get complaints like these.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  12. #12
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Shouldn't work together at all, IMO. I'd even like to see defensive stance dispel rage effects, if possible - rage is supposed to be a hit to your defensive abilities.

    Also, "my dream build won't work" is a poor argument. I'm sure many people would like to mix barb with monk or bard with pally, but that doesn't mean they should lift those restrictions. Neither should they do it here.

    Also this is why I said over in the official discussion thread that they shouldn't allow medium armor users to go into defender stance, cause now you get complaints like these.
    for the most part defensive stance does dispel and prevent rage effects. a single workaround/bug is the exception not the rule.

    this is not my dream build, i would just like to use one of the tools that turbine has spent time and money providing me, that i have spent time and money acquiring. i dont think its outside the realm of balance to allow all melees to use the core ability of a melee destiny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

  13. #13
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    i know its a rage effect, and i know its work around. i dont like that work around because defensive stance has a one minute cd. its fine for primal scream if 3 str really helps you that much, but then again primal has a 3 minute duration.

    if adrenaline continues to be a rage effect it just means half of the builds im planning to use in u23 will never be able to use this tree. thats why id like for adrenaline (and only adrenaline) to not be a rage effect.
    No. Don't nerf barbarians.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  14. #14
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    8,114

    Default

    Adrenaline has been considered a rage effect since the start.

    On my Paladin I would play outside of Defensive stances - carried Rage Pots, even pulled out my Madstone Boots. I did this until I had enough points for Fury Made Placid.

    Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Cost: 1 Adrenaline use. For 3 minutes you gain +6 wisdom and cannot be raged or use Adrenaline, and enemies attacking you physically or magically have a 20% chance to become paralyzed and helpless with regret for 3 seconds on a failed DC 50 Will Save. You heal 2d100 HP every two seconds for the next ten seconds. Cannot train if you have Fury Eternal.

    Since I lacked the feats on my Paladin to utilize Stunning Blow I found this ability to be very useful when surrounded by lots of mobs.

    Once I had enough points I also Took Unbridled Fury - Utilizing this as a Berserker mode. I would drop defensive stance, Rage Up and then charge in with unbridled Fury. Cooldown on Defensive stance would then be available.

    I had a lot of fun going that route.

  15. #15
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,065

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    for the most part defensive stance does dispel and prevent rage effects. a single workaround/bug is the exception not the rule.
    I meant I'd rather see them fix that

    this is not my dream build, i would just like to use one of the tools that turbine has spent time and money providing me, that i have spent time and money acquiring. i dont think its outside the realm of balance to allow all melees to use the core ability of a melee destiny.
    You're not supposed to have all the toys at once, it makes perfect sense. Also:

    "Defending nature by taking the fight to its enemies, the Fury of the Wild wields rage and destruction, rolling over foes like a deadly storm."

    None of that reads to me like "defensive fighting". Just because they moved down the defender stance to tier 2, doesn't mean that suddenly all FOTM splits should have unrestricted access it. In the meantime, build smart, not "I wish..."

    P.S. There is no such thing as a "melee destiny", all destinies target different playstyles.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  16. #16
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Adrenaline has been considered a rage effect since the start.
    i know, but now that fighters and pallies with useful defensive stances are actually going to be a thing, id like them to change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    You're not supposed to have all the toys at once, it makes perfect sense.

    None of that reads to me like "defensive fighting". Just because they moved down the defender stance to tier 2, doesn't mean that suddenly all FOTM splits should have unrestricted access it. In the meantime, build smart, not "I wish..."

    P.S. There is no such thing as a "melee destiny", all destinies target different playstyles.
    maybe you shouldnt have all the toys at once, but lately a dev theme has been "supporting multiple playstyles and options." i think this falls into that category, it would just be nice to actually use the destiny with a build i am planning to use. defensive stance does increase the access have to the solid defensive benefits of defensive stance be cutting the class level req in half, and now costing 2 ap less than it used to for the same benefit, and if you really invest in it it can get 2-3 of +6 str, +6 con, +20% hp. 15+ pally is going to be the fotm, that is not a split and it will have unrestricted access to defensive fighting. thats just a fact. and i dont think there are any current or expected fotm builds which will have access to defensive fighting that dont already.

    an almost no fail helpless cc seems like a fairly defensive tactic. personally i dont think of defensive fighting as defensive or adrenaline as offensive. both increase my effectiveness and are in my opinion fighting smarter, which doesnt have a strictly offensive or defensive nature. if they want they can take away the +dmg% on hit and just let me use the cc seeing as thats what i really want. or they leave it and i run a pure fighter anyway and i just never use part of their product. wont change the builds i plan to use.

    melee is a playstyle. support it yo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

  17. #17
    Community Member tralfaz81's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    859

    Default

    Sorry, you're being a little greedy. Barb is based on giving up defenses to get the offense - plus giving up any spell casting, searching, chugging some pots, etc, etc. You give up defense to get offense or vice versa. Its very balanced as is and shouldn't be changed just to help out multiclass builds when the change wouldn't help barbs at all.
    "Shut up and die like a wizard"

  18. #18
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tralfaz81 View Post
    Sorry, you're being a little greedy. Barb is based on giving up defenses to get the offense - plus giving up any spell casting, searching, chugging some pots, etc, etc. You give up defense to get offense or vice versa. Its very balanced as is and shouldn't be changed just to help out multiclass builds when the change wouldn't help barbs at all.
    personally im not looking to benefit from such a change for a multiclass build at this time, though it cant be denied that a multiclass could benefit from this change. but thats not a bad thing and also not the point, itll have the same effect for multi and single class builds. and...what exactly is not defensive about knocking your enemy on their butt, preventing them from damaging you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

  19. #19
    Community Member tralfaz81's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_one_dwarfforged View Post
    personally im not looking to benefit from such a change for a multiclass build at this time, though it cant be denied that a multiclass could benefit from this change. but thats not a bad thing and also not the point, itll have the same effect for multi and single class builds. and...what exactly is not defensive about knocking your enemy on their butt, preventing them from damaging you?
    That's closer to AOE than it is defensive. Barbs have no defensive stances, they lose AC and, with some trees, PRR to gain their power. The destiny should reflect this.
    "Shut up and die like a wizard"

  20. #20
    Community Member the_one_dwarfforged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    I'm in your head, bro.
    Posts
    1,729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tralfaz81 View Post
    That's closer to AOE than it is defensive. Barbs have no defensive stances, they lose AC and, with some trees, PRR to gain their power. The destiny should reflect this.
    what does adrenaline have to do with aoe? cc has a definite defensive aspect to it. adrenaline is cc. not seeing where aoe comes into this.

    defensive stances have not been good at all until recently (except for cancelling rage effects xD), and not really been used much. so what if barbs lose ac or prr to gain more damage? i dont see what that has to do with adrenaline unless youre saying that barbs should trade any and all defense for more offense including cc, and now can no longer stun trip or make helpless any enemies. i think we can both agree that is ridiculous. frankly i think the defensive aspect of adrenaline knockdown is much more important for a barbarian than it is for a fighter. even though barbs can easily splash fighter to gain heavy armor prof. should barbs not be allowed to do that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    By the way, sorry for the folks I dropped the death cube on. Except I'm not sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    Due to the rising costs of OlladraCare, the Coin Lords laid off Mari and outsourced her job to foreigners.

    #MakeStormreachGreatAgain
    Quote Originally Posted by changelingamuck View Post
    Class balance isn't a black-or-white...issue...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload