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Thread: Nerf everything

  1. #1
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Default Nerf everything

    I thought about this for a long time, and it's just a fact that everything needs to be nerfed. Everything is just way too OP in this game and there is just no challenge unless you artificially create it yourself. Even first life toons are soloing end game EEs.

    Let's go back to pre-destiny level cap 20 where things were actually challenging. Also, remove store bought P2W.

    kthxbye

  2. #2
    Community Member Powskier's Avatar
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    buffs are worthless idea to draw players into complacency...we sure didnt need more ship buffs or an xtra 100 guild levels,but they gave em out anyways.Obvious catering to old ,tired players; ddo was afraid to lose core of old dusty (and often rude) players,who care nothing for others.It's rather silly in ddo....by time players run elites ,they zerg so much ,there cant really be any enjoyment in the content.One month after haunted halls all the dupers are runnin around with maxed out thnderforge items and auction houses are flooded w ingrediants.yea, nerf it all

  3. #3
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Why go only back to pre ED? go further back in the waybackmachine ... get somewhere a green monochrome screen, feel the challenge!!!

    Under and behind and inside everything this man took for granted, something horrible had been growing.

  4. #4
    Community Member djinnishah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powskier View Post
    buffs are worthless idea to draw players into complacency...we sure didnt need more ship buffs or an xtra 100 guild levels,but they gave em out anyways.Obvious catering to old ,tired players; ddo was afraid to lose core of old dusty (and often rude) players,who care nothing for others.It's rather silly in ddo....by time players run elites ,they zerg so much ,there cant really be any enjoyment in the content.One month after haunted halls all the dupers are runnin around with maxed out thnderforge items and auction houses are flooded w ingrediants.yea, nerf it all
    Personally, I like the buffs. Its easier then running back every hour to rebuff while the rest of the party waits. I'm a lil' lazy, so I prefer to not run back that often.

    I have experienced a mix of nice and nasty players that ranged from noobs to old school. I still help new players when I can, and I still ask questions on the occasion. Its not just one genre of player that has issues over time. People have bad days, and some people just have bad days every day. I've learned to let things kinda roll off for the most part.

    From a design perspective... their trying to keep millions of players happy in several countries. I have suffered through a few nerfs too, and they suck. Still, I maintain hope the nerfing shall end and classes will be able to perform as they should. Diverse and unequal according to specific build, not specific class or race.

  5. #5
    Community Member legendkilleroll's Avatar
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    Game getting easier, People just blast thru EE to get their sagas done, Loot also easier to get whether its from cheating or raid timers in first week after release

    Just dont think it will go back to how people want it, game really needs some challenging content which has longevity to it, not what we get atm

  6. #6
    Community Member kanordog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendkilleroll View Post
    Game getting easier, People just blast thru EE to get their sagas done, Loot also easier to get whether its from cheating or raid timers in first week after release

    Just dont think it will go back to how people want it, game really needs some challenging content which has longevity to it, not what we get atm
    Have You tried Wayfinder yet?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I thought about this for a long time, and it's just a fact that everything needs to be nerfed. Everything is just way too OP in this game and there is just no challenge unless you artificially create it yourself. Even first life toons are soloing end game EEs.

    Let's go back to pre-destiny level cap 20 where things were actually challenging. Also, remove store bought P2W.

    kthxbye
    It's just too late now.. update is coming soon.. new changes, someone will get behind again.

  8. #8
    Community Member MagicBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    I thought about this for a long time, and it's just a fact that everything needs to be nerfed. Everything is just way too OP in this game and there is just no challenge unless you artificially create it yourself. Even first life toons are soloing end game EEs.

    Let's go back to pre-destiny level cap 20 where things were actually challenging. Also, remove store bought P2W.

    kthxbye

    Many players do not know what was DDO in the past and cannot judge.
    I think that many, many players of the old times would sign this post (and many, gone, would return).

    Personally, i sign every word save that every first life toon solo endgame EE. It's not totally true, but the problem isn't there. It's more deep.

    If PC and NPC would play with the same rules and same gear means that a level 10 fighter vs another level 10 fighter has the 50% chance to survive. And this should be on normal.
    tactic, templay and experience would make the difference.

    This game is too much item oriented. +10 or +11 stat items, for instance, are an aberration as well as many other items.

    This game should be soloed only in casual.

    Yes, everything should return to the material plane. DDO is only a money machine, due to the store and lost his original appeal

  9. #9
    Community Member legendkilleroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanordog View Post
    Have You tried Wayfinder yet?
    lol, to make the game challenging i have to go play on wayfinder, yeh ok

  10. #10
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Even first life toons
    Quote Originally Posted by MagicBlue View Post
    every first life toon
    Now you can agree 100%.

  11. #11
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    First life toons are not doing epic elite. Just cause you think something doesn't make it true. I'm sure a few are, but those are people with lots of experience (not first time players), using optimized builds.

  12. #12
    Community Member MagicBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psteen1 View Post
    First life toons are not doing epic elite. Just cause you think something doesn't make it true. I'm sure a few are, but those are people with lots of experience (not first time players), using optimized builds.
    Yes, using optimized builds.

    In my opinion this is the first real problem of this game.

    Balance (and challenge) becomes from the fact that every build has strenghts and weakness.

    In this game you can create builds without weakness and, of course,every one try to get that goal.

    Developers, should repair what they themselves have broken. Permitting to create gods, they should also create devils with insane powers.

    It's stated everywere. This is a lack of design. A black hole.

    I think that, just to start, to introduce 2 simple things can make the game balanced and challenging: same rules for all (items included) and friendly fire (by the way, the core DnD rules have it).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by psteen1 View Post
    First life toons are not doing epic elite. Just cause you think something doesn't make it true. I'm sure a few are, but those are people with lots of experience (not first time players), using optimized builds.
    I'm not sure what you think several lives provide, but it isn't much. One extra damage here, one extra DC there on a caster that doesn't need DCs. None of that actually provides any real power.

  14. #14
    The Hatchery
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    Yes, I think skill focus: swim should be nerfed. Preferably to give -3 instead. It's clearly OP.
    Last edited by Dandonk; 08-28-2014 at 07:17 AM.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Yes, I think skill focus: swim should be nerfed. Preferably to give -3 instead. It's clearly OP.
    /signed, get rid of these OP feats

  16. #16
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicBlue View Post
    I think that, just to start, to introduce 2 simple things can make the game balanced and challenging: same rules for all (items included) and friendly fire (by the way, the core DnD rules have it).
    What would friendly fire do? Soloers carry on as usual. Casters now can't use fireball or whatnot (unless people have evasion, which they do anyway), they're stuck with single target?

    Melees? Bye bye cleaves; and THF in general, too risky. Hell, we couldn't stand too close to each other, even hard targeted we'd hit each other. Better split up and each do separate things, that's helping the team work!

    Seriously, please. Tell me what this would accomplish. There's less teamwork and the same amount of difficulty as is; people run off on their own anyway. It just makes newbs struggle more and makes runs slower, albeit no harder. /no

  17. #17
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    I think balancing was never really considered in DDO. That is why we have such steep differences in player character power.

    Tossing low cooldown spells will almost always outclass a melee aoe dps-ing. Unless the content is adjusted so that ceirtain enemies are immune to spell effect.

    I always said to balance with content and not with character stats and abilities, since they are meaningless if the content doesnt need em. A good example is the spell "slow", i never seen any mage in 5 years+ to cast it, ever, even tho monsters are insanely fast. But simply it is not worth it when you can rather cast holds/discoballs and wail of banshees that instanly stop or kill the foes.

    So...
    What i would do as a developer is see what are the content trivializing buttons, and slowly adapt them to be still useful, but in a way so they wont make other abilities obsolete/useless, or totally inefficient in comparison.

    There are plenty of stuff in DDO that could make gamplay richer, but overly defensive players want to keep the 3-5% of the stuff being trivially OP. Remember when they nerfed necro spells? They actually buffed them in the process, in such a way that they later had to revisit item effects to compensate.

    Designers dont dare to get this game feel right, they fear the outrage of overly defensive players . Thats why they have the "we dont wann nerf existing builds" policy. They are rather slowly proxy nerfing, by buffing => lead sto powercreep => reduced challenge of the game.

    I think i have solved that last time, but noone cares

  18. #18
    Community Member MagicBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    What would friendly fire do? Soloers carry on as usual. Casters now can't use fireball or whatnot (unless people have evasion, which they do anyway), they're stuck with single target?

    Melees? Bye bye cleaves; and THF in general, too risky. Hell, we couldn't stand too close to each other, even hard targeted we'd hit each other. Better split up and each do separate things, that's helping the team work!

    Seriously, please. Tell me what this would accomplish. There's less teamwork and the same amount of difficulty as is; people run off on their own anyway. It just makes newbs struggle more and makes runs slower, albeit no harder. /no
    Friendly fire and same rules will accomplish a lot about sane challenging, sane balancing and sane teamwork. 3 things that this game do not have

    If you permit a team mate caster to throw a fireball on you is your problem, not a game problem as well as if you run in rage against mobs surrounded by a blade barrier and get hurted .
    Cleave works perfectly in some cases. But if you have team mates near you should not use. Easy.

    This is team work. If you want to spam throws and spells wherever you want, yes. Better leave you alone.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicBlue View Post
    Friendly fire and same rules will accomplish a lot about sane challenging, sane balancing and sane teamwork. 3 things that this game do not have

    If you permit a team mate caster to throw a fireball on you is your problem, not a game problem as well as if you run in rage against mobs surrounded by a blade barrier and get hurted .
    Cleave works perfectly in some cases. But if you have team mates near you should not use. Easy.

    This is team work. If you want to spam throws and spells wherever you want, yes. Better leave you alone.
    This would drive everyone to solo instead of group, moreso than we already have. The pugging scene would die off so fast as games would get filled with griefers. Zone into the quest, to find yourself standing in five firewalls and a mage blasting the ground in front of you with fireballs.

    No thanks...

  20. #20
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I'm not sure what you think several lives provide, but it isn't much. One extra damage here, one extra DC there on a caster that doesn't need DCs. None of that actually provides any real power.
    I was responding more to the OP where he says that even first lifers are doing epic elite.

    But your point is well taken. It isn't the past number of lives that makes a difference.

    To my ears, the OP is implying that new players are soloing epic elite. That is not what is being said exactly, that is what I think he is implying. I just don't think this is happening and he is blowing the problem up out of proportion.

    Of course it would be no surprise if a multi-year vet is soloing epic elite on a new toon, and ultimately no big deal in my opinion.

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