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Thread: Fighters...

  1. #21
    Community Member djinnishah's Avatar
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    Thank you all so much for the input. I have sent him a link to this thread in hopes he will adhere to some of your wisdom.
    I believe his ac is in the 70's. As far as his reflex and such, I'm not sure, but I know he got some bonuses due to ranger. He says his "preferred" playing style is straight forward melee...

    I know you do not "have" to add Ranger for duel wield. It added some nice features we had hoped would help him be
    more survivable. I only suggested this since he had so many issues with a full fighter. My husband suggested a Pally mix. That would have probably been better.

    I like Kensai personally, and had one a few years back. I killed her off to build a FvS. According to our friend, most the Kensai buffs are now more monk related in the tree. We cannot see *** he is talking about, but I'm sure you all know.

    His current level is 12 on 3rd TR with the dwarf. Husband and I are on the second TR with with 2 of our toons, Ranger and a Sorc. We're not having any issues running anything HH or HE, even being under level X3.

    TBH, one of the fighters complaints is hubby and I tend to run quests a few levels above us for a challenge and better xp. We NEVER run norm with TRs... That is lame.

    His Horc is 26 and he won't even use him now due to his lack of damage and quick deaths. He hasn't played his Pig since before the last update. TBH, he does die a LOT and we've watched him try to whittle down a mini boss for 5 minutes... His Horc uses Cleave, Great Cleave and several other special attacks. He is very into special attacks and improved crit. Yet... it doesn't work for him as it does for others.

    He has a Pally, but screwed up royally on the build... He has bound gear he doesn't want to lose, so he won't just kill him.

    Guys, to be honest, having to constantly take aggro with healers, casters and rogues with a fighter melee in the party was annoying. I wanted him to see good fighter builds are still available. You guys are providing much appreciated wisdom that I hope he listens too.


    I wish I had more info, but all he says is "I've done everything they say and nothing works". He also says there are a lot of fighters that agree with him... but tbh, I haven't seen many jumping on his band wagon of woe.

  2. #22
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    I just want to throw it out there that while I have not personally played a fighter, I have grouped with many many fighters in both heroic and epic levels that are absolute fantastic additions to a party that are both very survivable and do tons of damage. It can definitely be done, but I am sure a lot of it comes down to game knowledge, experience and honestly player skill as well. Gear/past lives of course can help, but none of that can be a substitute for knowing how to build and play your character. I do hope your friend can get some advice from the players in this thread since I have witnessed many very effective fighters and they're only going to become stronger in the next patch.

    This is coming from someone who is looking to play a fighter Soon(TM).

  3. #23
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    Default The best sentence in this thread so far.

    "Gear/past lives of course can help, but none of that can be a substitute for knowing how to build and play your character"

  4. #24
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    The best things he can do if he wants to be heavy armor is to get healing amplification, high ac and prr, and if doing twf, use bswords, or thf sword of shadows. His AC will never be the best it can be going pure (for now, and even in U23), however it can get good enough to allow the other defense systems a chance to shine. Get that dodge to its cap (I think 8-10% in heavy armor), then use one cut as often as possible. Even if that means kiting until it resets. Then have displacement, blur, incorp, and decent saves. Should be all he needs to be viable, use the least amount of sp, and not be a stepping stone in ee.

    Despite Cetus being a bladeforged pally combo class, the playstyle of hit and run has been the best melee tactic since day one. So have your friend check those videos out.

  5. #25
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djinnishah View Post
    Thank you all so much for the input. I have sent him a link to this thread in hopes he will adhere to some of your wisdom.
    I believe his ac is in the 70's. As far as his reflex and such, I'm not sure, but I know he got some bonuses due to ranger. He says his "preferred" playing style is straight forward melee...

    I know you do not "have" to add Ranger for duel wield. It added some nice features we had hoped would help him be
    more survivable. I only suggested this since he had so many issues with a full fighter. My husband suggested a Pally mix. That would have probably been better.

    I like Kensai personally, and had one a few years back. I killed her off to build a FvS. According to our friend, most the Kensai buffs are now more monk related in the tree. We cannot see *** he is talking about, but I'm sure you all know.

    His current level is 12 on 3rd TR with the dwarf. Husband and I are on the second TR with with 2 of our toons, Ranger and a Sorc. We're not having any issues running anything HH or HE, even being under level X3.

    TBH, one of the fighters complaints is hubby and I tend to run quests a few levels above us for a challenge and better xp. We NEVER run norm with TRs... That is lame.

    His Horc is 26 and he won't even use him now due to his lack of damage and quick deaths. He hasn't played his Pig since before the last update. TBH, he does die a LOT and we've watched him try to whittle down a mini boss for 5 minutes... His Horc uses Cleave, Great Cleave and several other special attacks. He is very into special attacks and improved crit. Yet... it doesn't work for him as it does for others.

    He has a Pally, but screwed up royally on the build... He has bound gear he doesn't want to lose, so he won't just kill him.

    Guys, to be honest, having to constantly take aggro with healers, casters and rogues with a fighter melee in the party was annoying. I wanted him to see good fighter builds are still available. You guys are providing much appreciated wisdom that I hope he listens too.


    I wish I had more info, but all he says is "I've done everything they say and nothing works". He also says there are a lot of fighters that agree with him... but tbh, I haven't seen many jumping on his band wagon of woe.

    It sounds like you and he are incompatible and both of you would probably be much happier playing separately.

    I had this same issue with the people who brought me to DDO - They also wanted to constantly run Elites, Tear of Dhakaan on Lvl 4s, Gianthold at Lvl 12, Vale at Lvl 14!
    They however were gamers who'd played multiple other MMOs before coming to DDO and had played DDO for some time on and off since 2006!
    I'd never played an MMO before coming to DDO and hadn't played ANY Computer game that didn't involve Football in probably a DECADE!

    There was just no way I could compete {or survive!} in their runs!

    It doesn't really matter how good his character is - How much gear you get him, how many past lives etc. - The people who brought me to DDO brought others too and because those others weren't as stubborn as myself they geared them up!
    EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE OTHERS BROUGHT TO THE GAME WERE GONE WITHIN 6 MONTHS!!!


    It's far easier for the person who's great at something to relax a bit and run at the newbie's pace than it is for the newbie to keep up with the full zerg!

    If your "friend" wants to group up with you despite being so weak comparatively then the onus is on you and your husband to slow down a bit and temper your own game when said "friend" is online!


    P.S. You get EXACTLY the Same XP running Tear of Dhakaan at Lvl 9 as at Lvl 6!
    You get EXACTLY the Same XP running Crucible at Lvl 16 as at Lvl 13!
    You get EXACTLY the Same XP running Coal Chamber at Lvl 18 as at Lvl 14!

    Your friend might have a much better time in this game if you and your husband didn't rush him to the high xp quests before he's even half ready!!!

  6. #26
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    He's going to love U23 I think...
    Please consider the environment before printing this post

  7. #27
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliphant View Post
    He's going to love U23 I think...
    Doubtful...As the problem seems to be incompatible playstyles!

  8. #28
    Community Member djinnishah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleus View Post
    It's honestly hard to give advice on what someone could be doing to come to this impression without actually observing playstyle, build, and gear. Take for instance his statement about having high AC. Well, without a number there is no way of knowing if it is truly high, but even without knowing the number it would be fairly important to note that there is more to defenses than just AC (e.g. PRR, Incorporeal, Displacement, Dodge, Saves, self-healing). Additionally, the Cetus build is technically a fighter build, but so is a pure 20 dwarf fighter that has inherently less built in defenses than the former.

    So, I think the important question isn't whether one feels fighters are nerfed, but rather exactly what do you mean by fighter? Same thing would apply to your reference to a "healer," a Warforged Favored Soul is most likely going to play differently from a Sun Elf Cleric even though both are often referred to as "healers." If someone tried to play them exactly the same they might feel one was nerfed compared to the other rather than acknowledging that it was their choices of combining a type of playstyle with a particular build that was causing the issue. I would second the suggestion of having your friend look at a swashbuckler (combo with a warchanter) if they want to play like a fighter that doesn't take the center of the fight and even if it does has a lot of built in defense (self-cast displacement, easy access to healing, high attainable dodge).
    Our friend is a dwarf, duel wielding dwarf axes, straight forward, melee style current level 12, 3rd TR with some self heal capability due to Ranger.
    Also, a Horc, specializes in great weapons but can duel wield also. Straight forward melee, current level 26 2nd TR

    Party specifics:

    I favor Drow, so most of my toons are as such. I placed emphasis on heals and party buffs with my FvS. I can damage, but I try to maintain a healing/buffing role in the group. My Sorc also has buffs, but she is a damage dealer, ranged and ray. She has wonderful cc as she levels as well. Thus having someone that can take her aggro is beneficial.
    Husband tends to use his many shot to snatch my aggro and prevent untimely deaths. He ranger is also Drow, primarily ranged with heal capability on his Ranger, current level 12, 2nd TR.
    Husband has a 26 Arti, 2nd TR, primarily ranged with healing and a 26 ShadowDancer, melee assassin... which is ironically more survivable then our friends fighters.

    It is truly difficult to put into words the sadness of this situation... We wanted to machinima some of the follies, but our friend is currently on DDO strike... and quite possibly cursing me atm. lol

  9. #29
    Community Member djinnishah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    It sounds like you and he are incompatible and both of you would probably be much happier playing separately.

    I had this same issue with the people who brought me to DDO - They also wanted to constantly run Elites, Tear of Dhakaan on Lvl 4s, Gianthold at Lvl 12, Vale at Lvl 14!
    They however were gamers who'd played multiple other MMOs before coming to DDO and had played DDO for some time on and off since 2006!
    I'd never played an MMO before coming to DDO and hadn't played ANY Computer game that didn't involve Football in probably a DECADE!

    There was just no way I could compete {or survive!} in their runs!

    It doesn't really matter how good his character is - How much gear you get him, how many past lives etc. - The people who brought me to DDO brought others too and because those others weren't as stubborn as myself they geared them up!
    EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE OTHERS BROUGHT TO THE GAME WERE GONE WITHIN 6 MONTHS!!!


    It's far easier for the person who's great at something to relax a bit and run at the newbie's pace than it is for the newbie to keep up with the full zerg!

    If your "friend" wants to group up with you despite being so weak comparatively then the onus is on you and your husband to slow down a bit and temper your own game when said "friend" is online!


    P.S. You get EXACTLY the Same XP running Tear of Dhakaan at Lvl 9 as at Lvl 6!
    You get EXACTLY the Same XP running Crucible at Lvl 16 as at Lvl 13!
    You get EXACTLY the Same XP running Coal Chamber at Lvl 18 as at Lvl 14!

    Your friend might have a much better time in this game if you and your husband didn't rush him to the high xp quests before he's even half ready!!!
    I see and would completely understand and validate your point IF our friend was actually a new to the game. However, he is not. He has been playing for 4+ years and has characters on all the servers except one. He is an avid gamer... actually... that is kinda ALL he does is play games. No joke. Playstation 3, Neverwinter, Game of Thrones, etc. etc. He is familiar with online gaming and gaming in general. We are all adults, well over the age of 30.

    The toons we are talking about are ALL TR'd, so normal isn't considered at level, or even one level up. Not to mention, his Dwarf is on a 3rd TR, where husband and I are on our 2nd. Our epic toons are all currently on the 2nd TR, so even keel there.

    I mean... its not like we're bringing him straight into the game and casting him to the elite wolves or anything. lol He has plenty of experience playing the game. I personally thing the issue is in the build somewhere. We have ran with first life fighters that do fine and multi TR fighters that are incredible. That is why I sought the wisdom of experienced fighters. To give this poor dwarf and Horc some aid and help those toons regain their pride. Dwarfs are very prideful, you know...

    Perhaps I'm wicked for liking a challenge...

  10. #30
    Community Member Seljuck's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this play style fit your friend, but here it's video made by great player from Cannith server. it's little bit outdated but I'm sure that this pure fighter s&b can be adapted.

    YT Video
    >>Officer of the DDOpl Guild<<>>Cannith<<
    Isioviel Jr'eness 21th: 10drd/6rgr/4ftr - the Completionist
    Finghin Al'Roeg 3rd life 16wiz/2mnk/2fvs .......Seljuck 4th life barb
    If you like my posts, consider adding to my reputation. Thank You.

  11. #31
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleus View Post
    It's honestly hard to give advice on what someone could be doing to come to this impression without actually observing playstyle, build, and gear. Take for instance his statement about having high AC. Well, without a number there is no way of knowing if it is truly high, but even without knowing the number it would be fairly important to note that there is more to defenses than just AC (e.g. PRR, Incorporeal, Displacement, Dodge, Saves, self-healing). Additionally, the Cetus build is technically a fighter build, but so is a pure 20 dwarf fighter that has inherently less built in defenses than the former.

    So, I think the important question isn't whether one feels fighters are nerfed, but rather exactly what do you mean by fighter? Same thing would apply to your reference to a "healer," a Warforged Favored Soul is most likely going to play differently from a Sun Elf Cleric even though both are often referred to as "healers." If someone tried to play them exactly the same they might feel one was nerfed compared to the other rather than acknowledging that it was their choices of combining a type of playstyle with a particular build that was causing the issue. I would second the suggestion of having your friend look at a swashbuckler (combo with a warchanter) if they want to play like a fighter that doesn't take the center of the fight and even if it does has a lot of built in defense (self-cast displacement, easy access to healing, high attainable dodge).
    Quote Originally Posted by djinnishah View Post
    I see and would completely understand and validate your point IF our friend was actually a new to the game. However, he is not. He has been playing for 4+ years and has characters on all the servers except one. He is an avid gamer... actually... that is kinda ALL he does is play games. No joke. Playstation 3, Neverwinter, Game of Thrones, etc. etc. He is familiar with online gaming and gaming in general. We are all adults, well over the age of 30.

    The toons we are talking about are ALL TR'd, so normal isn't considered at level, or even one level up. Not to mention, his Dwarf is on a 3rd TR, where husband and I are on our 2nd. Our epic toons are all currently on the 2nd TR, so even keel there.

    I mean... its not like we're bringing him straight into the game and casting him to the elite wolves or anything. lol He has plenty of experience playing the game. I personally thing the issue is in the build somewhere. We have ran with first life fighters that do fine and multi TR fighters that are incredible. That is why I sought the wisdom of experienced fighters. To give this poor dwarf and Horc some aid and help those toons regain their pride. Dwarfs are very prideful, you know...

    Perhaps I'm wicked for liking a challenge...
    I have to agree with Paleus. ive been reading this thread all day and want to comment on it, but without knowing play style and build, its really difficult to give more than generalized advice. I play only melee characters myself (pure barbarians and fighters), so I know the frustration in the current game trying to be viable in a group. the new changes to defense and character power for melees are on Lama now, so U23 should bring melees up a few more steps in terms of survivability and dps.

    the impression im getting is that he probably doesn't want to post his build or gear that he uses. the forums can be a tough place to post a build because it always goes through severe criticism, but out of all that, there would be a few helpful people willing to give solid advice. build and tactics are the 2 most important things and to find problems, that's where you have to start.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  12. #32
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Doubtful...As the problem seems to be incompatible playstyles!
    I don't know. I've found melees to be harder to build. The changes seem to make rolling a sub-optimal melee more viable.
    Please consider the environment before printing this post

  13. #33
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    If you are talking about a pure fighter or something without evasion and you don't have tons to GS displacement clickies (for perma displacement) then your friend is correct. In the current system melees are not suited for "melee". Ranged is a good option which he can try since he has ranger levels. Going melee with mobs on EE is suicide without displacement, high dodge, high PRR and evasion, even if you are completionist and even if you have the best gear.
    Wait for U23, that might change something.

  14. #34
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    I don't know about ya guys but this is the kinda thing that comes to mind when someone mentions the words .. 'wife aggro', hehe. Chicks like Djinnishah just dig a dance in the arena, an overleveled quest, a good ol' fashion nerdfight and laying in a massive pile of plat', half concious, with her armor beyond broken and her clothes knocked off. Nothing wrong with that but I guess it's not for everybody. XD

  15. #35
    Community Member djinnishah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhypsyshah View Post
    I don't know about ya guys but this is the kinda thing that comes to mind when someone mentions the words .. 'wife aggro', hehe. Chicks like Djinnishah just dig a dance in the arena, an overleveled quest, a good ol' fashion nerdfight and laying in a massive pile of plat', half concious, with her armor beyond broken and her clothes knocked off. Nothing wrong with that but I guess it's not for everybody. XD
    Indeed, I embrace my inner nerd to the fullest. I have been naked at the end of many a quest, but at least we completed it. To run naked is better then to yield.

    I doubt our friend would put his build on here, but I wish he would. I feel you guys could give him some very useful advice. The video that was posted earlier is his preferred playing style. He likes to move forward and attack, but he spends more time running back or hiding and sucking down healing potions with his current build.

  16. #36
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    bladeforge may be right up you r buddies alley...awsome survivability and self healing.

  17. #37
    Community Member djinnishah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powskier View Post
    bladeforge may be right up you r buddies alley...awsome survivability and self healing.
    He made one but hasn't played it much. I think he mentioned a bad build on that one too... but I'll double check. Personally, I will not hesitate to kill off a toon and rebuild if it isn't on par with what I want.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by djinnishah View Post
    Thank you Dandrock. I will advise him of this, in hopes
    he will find a solution to his issues.

    As far as his complaints... the list is relatively short.
    He cannot do damage. He drops quick. Fighters are "nerfed".
    According to him there is nothing he can do, that he
    hasn't done already. Husband and I disagree...

    For a better visual.

    Imagine being a rogue, sorc, ranger or healer, and running with
    a fighter... who waits for you to take aggro, often hiding in the back.
    No joke. Running past us, leading aggro to healers and casters.

    3 time TR Dwarf fighter w/a Ranger splash for Duel wield
    dwarf axes. I suggested the Ranger splash for that purpose in
    hopes it would cease his complaints. It did not...

    2 time TR Horc Fighter, who was a Barbarian part of his first life.
    Heavy armor and Great Weapons, primarily Greataxe.

    He states he has a high AC, and he thinks his weapons are fine. The
    primary thing we hear is fighters are nerfed and that is the excuse
    we get for everything...

    Thus... I guess my primary question to fighters should be... do you
    all feel nerfed? Heavy and light?
    Hold on, I can agree totally with you on this, as I believe your friend is trying to play a pure class. is that correct?
    if so I can sympathize totally as my pure Barb got nurffed and I am now forced to make an equivalent. so i have gone from dwarf barb to bladeforge kensai splash build.
    the problem with this game now is you can synergies classes to achieve a much greater advantage than if you were to play a pure class toon.

  19. #39
    Community Member djinnishah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunzi2010 View Post
    Hold on, I can agree totally with you on this, as I believe your friend is trying to play a pure class. is that correct?
    if so I can sympathize totally as my pure Barb got nurffed and I am now forced to make an equivalent. so i have gone from dwarf barb to bladeforge kensai splash build.
    the problem with this game now is you can synergies classes to achieve a much greater advantage than if you were to play a pure class toon.
    Yes, he took his full barbarian Horc to a fighter 1st life. He then took his full fighter on 2nd life. He only switched from Barbarian due to that nerf.

    His dwarf has been a full fighter for 2 TRs, and we talked him into adding a splash of Ranger, as I mentioned. My husband advised him to go with a splash of pally, but I thought the evasion would benefit his survival a bit. That was my bad.

    His goal is to have a good, solid fighter build that functions in the capacity that old school fighters are meant too. Stand and fight, aggro capable and high survivability.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by djinnishah View Post
    Yes, he took his full barbarian Horc to a fighter 1st life. He then took his full fighter on 2nd life. He only switched from Barbarian due to that nerf.

    His dwarf has been a full fighter for 2 TRs, and we talked him into adding a splash of Ranger, as I mentioned. My husband advised him to go with a splash of pally, but I thought the evasion would benefit his survival a bit. That was my bad.
    I think I mentioned that he might wanna try a pally/cleric/fighter combo or something simular, it's been a while and I can't remember. There might have easily been a few updates since the mention. The only melee I have is a rogue, tho. So my advise probably isn't that great.

    -Da Hubby

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