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Thread: Fixing Streak.

  1. #41
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    Flawed foundation, bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Lets be real here, this game has moved into the direction of a Single Powerful Toon,
    Provide a citation for that please. Because that's certainly not the case in my guild. That's why your ideas are not good; you're coming from a foundation that doesn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I am the type of player
    there are more people who play this game then just you.
    And you should check your self before accusing others of something, since your entire idea is based on what type of player you are, with what you want, while ignoring the simple fact that there are quite a few people explaining to you how that's not the case.

    You're not discussing ideas; you're arguing without considering the flaws in yours. So there's no incentive to try and actually have a discussion with you.

  2. #42
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TempestAlphaOmega View Post
    While you seem to have put quite a bit of thought into this, I disagree with you that it would solve the problem you are addressing. The system you have outlined actually penalizes players for not streaking far more than the current one. I realize that you do not believe this to be true but we are all entitled to our own opinions on this.
    There are, roughly 300 Quests from 1 to 28, No including raids, solo quests, and out door zones.

    To put that into Numbers. Lets use a generic Premium Player. Even if this player did not streak at all their first life (which they really don't have to), if they TRed, By the end of their second life, which would be the ideal time for them to get involved in streak because they could open hard, they could have a hard streak of around +100% to +125% if they put a lot of effort into it and bought all the packs.

    This they could set themselves up very nicely for life 3, where they could ride their +125% hard streak, and even build that up until their Elite Streak overcame it, and thus by the end of their 3rd life, they could be rocking around a +150% to a +200% elite streak, if they were diligent about it.

    Not only does this give players something to work for, it makes TRing a more enjoyable and approachable venture for players of all skill brackets and walks of the game. I mean really, most players can run a Heroic Elite Streak by their 3rd life, so this panders to them perfectly.

    I mean to the players that are not power players, and at best can run a hard streak, I am sure they are going to be still pretty happy to see that number grow, and they also realize that they are not getting slapped down for it, they can rock an endless Bonus just doing hard, 300%+ is still doable on a hard streak alone, they don't need to do elite to blast through the levels.

    Keep that in mind as well.

  3. #43
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General_Gronker View Post
    Provide a citation for that please. Because that's certainly not the case in my guild. That's why your ideas are not good; you're coming from a foundation that doesn't exist.
    Actually this has been the consensus both from many forum posts I have read, in fact, it was brought up a lot with the introduction of Ed's and people I have talked to in game, it was not born in a void.

    Thank you for telling me what others have expressed to me how the game has become to them is wrong.

    And you should check your self before accusing others of something, since your entire idea is based on what type of player you are, with what you want, while ignoring the simple fact that there are quite a few people explaining to you how that's not the case.
    Nope, this idea is not really based on the kind of player I am, I break streak every life when I start the epic game. Thanks for the accusation tho, as unfounded as it is.

    In fact, since my 9th life main, has an elite streak of 0 right now, I would lose out quite bit on this idea if it was put in and would need to TR again, to start building it back, in contrast to that, I know people that have streaks that have reached several hundred if not over a thousand. They would be ahead of me, but then again, they are power players and I am not, so that seems fair to me.

    You're not discussing ideas; you're arguing without considering the flaws in yours. So there's no incentive to try and actually have a discussion with you.
    Not true at all. I already have taken into consideration what someone said about point reduction as opposed to the idea of just breaking streak.

    Thanks for the post.
    Last edited by Ungood; 08-26-2014 at 09:17 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Wait, no, that -50% for breaking streak stays with you forever as well, even if you build it back up, you still lost 50%, then 40%, then 30%, then 20%, then 10%, as you had to build it back up each quest, and that is a loss that will stay with you for the rest of your game, by your mentality.
    Yeah, guesstimating the actual numbers, but say you have a bunch of quests that give 30k base XP on elite.
    You run 5 of them with maxed streak, you get the XP, and 15k+15k+15k+15k+15k+=75kXP from streak bonuses.
    If you run a 20kXP quest on normal first, then run those 5 building up your streak, for the total of 20k+0k+3k+6k+9k+12k = 50kXP from that quest and streak bonuses. All the other things considered equal you lost maybe 25kXP, or less if you have potions/tomes going or did optionals in that normal run.
    Hence why I said
    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Currently, breaking a maxed elite streak in the worst case loses you maybe 20k XP

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    With my idea, you lost what? 10% Exp, Meh, so what... will that matter when you have an unlimited amout of bonus you can build.. No.. the minor loss becomes infinity ignoreable.
    With your idea you lost 10% xp in 100 quests, 5% in 200, and 2.5% in infinity. That's more than 20/25k.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I get that you are trying to debase my idea, but can you use counter points that make sense, real things that real players would do and worry about, hypothectics are pointless, give real situations and lets discuss that, making some pie in the sky "Oh what it something that pretty much would never happen happened" ... well then.. I guess the world implodes.
    I don't quite get what your objection is...

    I thought the problem with streaks is that players who shouldn't, and can't really keep up the streak still insist on trying to do so, because they favor the long-term reward of keeping the streak over the instant gratification of just completing some streak breaking quest. Even if they payout from the streak is much more delayed.

    Unless... oh wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    when I ended my 2nd life thinking "Holy **** that was tedious" I did not want to TR again,
    [...]
    The 3rd life was even worse then the second
    [...]
    If you keep streak hard capped at +50%, you would be feeling that -250% loss over my idea.
    So you don't care about PuGs, first lifers and newbies, you just want your n-th TR to go through faster. Okay.
    That's not a problem with streaks though. It's a problem with TRing (if it even is a problem at all).

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Actually this has been the consensus both from many forum posts I have read, in fact, it was brought up a lot with the introduction of Ed's and people I have talked to in game, it was not born in a void.
    I'd agree with that, and I support it - I think the game is better served by having diversity in what the playerbase identifies with, rather than an "everyone has one of everything" game. It's closer to tabletop DnD, and it encourages you to actually identify more with your main, which I think makes the game more fun (saves us from our own tendency to min-max and reduce everything to a grind). That's why I'm so against people who want to make everything BtA so they can farm it on their main and ship it to their alts they've put like 5 hours of actual gameplay on

    Look at the time and resource investment it takes to "max out" any one given character. Several or even dozens of PLs. Acquiring +4 or +5 tomes for every stat, plus +3 tomes for relevant skills. Grinding out all the BtC items you need, acquiring mats for TF, GS, and/or GH items, any Shard/Seal/Scroll items you may still want, getting augments to socket in them all. Maxing your EDs, and getting all the relevant Epic PLs. Grinding out enough Favor to hit all your relevant milestones. Getting Explorer deeds and unlocking fast travel and flagging for flagged stuff. Its not something you really want to undertake 4, 5, 10 times in parallel.

    That being said, I don't know why you need to stretch BB growth out over multiple lives. Capping it at 5 works just fine, though capping it at 300% bonus after a life or two would just let you *demolish* PLs past that point; I think that's a balance concern.

    Plus, since favor resets every HLR, you don't really *want* to blow through content that fast. The ideal scenario is you can play through an entire life only doing each quest once on Elite, optimizing your Favor for the free TP. If your XP gain came in significantly faster than your Favor gain, you'd just be encouraging people to go back and play a bunch of content at L20, grossly over-level, for favor before they LR again.

  6. #46
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindCakes View Post
    Yeah, guesstimating the actual numbers, but say you have a bunch of quests that give 30k base XP on elite.
    You run 5 of them with maxed streak, you get the XP, and 15k+15k+15k+15k+15k+=75kXP from streak bonuses.
    If you run a 20kXP quest on normal first, then run those 5 building up your streak, for the total of 20k+0k+3k+6k+9k+12k = 50kXP from that quest and streak bonuses. All the other things considered equal you lost maybe 25kXP, or less if you have potions/tomes going or did optionals in that normal run.
    Hence why I said
    Wait, you lose 50+40+30+20+10, which amounts to a 150% Exp loss for the next five quests.

    Under my idea, with Amendment 1:

    Even if you did Normal, you lose 8 points off. If that was a starting streak, which would be 8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 for a total of 36% loss

    if it was a large streak like over 300, that goes down to a 2% which means it becomes a net loss of 2+1.75+1.50+1.25+1+.75+.50+.25 = 9% total loss.

    So you don't care about PuGs, first lifers and newbies, you just want your n-th TR to go through faster. Okay.
    LOL, my Main has a 0 streak right now, I would get zero benefit from this, and it would take me at least a whole other life to build up any real streak, so, I would take a hit under this idea, as I would not get the instant +50% out of Newbie Land, and need to build up 50 quests before getting back to a 50% streak again.

    Basically, at my point, among many of the people I know as power gamers, I would take one of the largest hits because I never maintained my streak. I'd be hitting my 10th life with the same advantage as someone who just started to TR could be hitting their second life. Not to mention the fact that I already explained to you in another topic that I am not TRing as of late due to deplorable inventory problems in this game.

    So yah, thanks for the personal attack, but not every idea is about me, I get that you need to accuse me of such, because well, as the saying goes, what others see in you, is a reflection of what they have in themselves.

  7. #47
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I'd agree with that, and I support it - I think the game is better served by having diversity in what the playerbase identifies with, rather than an "everyone has one of everything" game. It's closer to tabletop DnD, and it encourages you to actually identify more with your main, which I think makes the game more fun (saves us from our own tendency to min-max and reduce everything to a grind). That's why I'm so against people who want to make everything BtA so they can farm it on their main and ship it to their alts they've put like 5 hours of actual gameplay on

    Look at the time and resource investment it takes to "max out" any one given character. Several or even dozens of PLs. Acquiring +4 or +5 tomes for every stat, plus +3 tomes for relevant skills. Grinding out all the BtC items you need, acquiring mats for TF, GS, and/or GH items, any Shard/Seal/Scroll items you may still want, getting augments to socket in them all. Maxing your EDs, and getting all the relevant Epic PLs. Grinding out enough Favor to hit all your relevant milestones. Getting Explorer deeds and unlocking fast travel and flagging for flagged stuff. Its not something you really want to undertake 4, 5, 10 times in parallel.

    That being said, I don't know why you need to stretch BB growth out over multiple lives. Capping it at 5 works just fine, though capping it at 300% bonus after a life or two would just let you *demolish* PLs past that point; I think that's a balance concern.

    Plus, since favor resets every HLR, you don't really *want* to blow through content that fast. The ideal scenario is you can play through an entire life only doing each quest once on Elite, optimizing your Favor for the free TP. If your XP gain came in significantly faster than your Favor gain, you'd just be encouraging people to go back and play a bunch of content at L20, grossly over-level, for favor before they LR again.
    Good post and good points.

    I had thought about the "balance" concern.. but .. come on they sell Otto's stones, 50% Exp Books, 100% EXP Pots (Wait are they at 100% yet? Not sure on that one) well none the less, Blasting through past lives is no longer a concern nor is it game braking anymore.

    Hummm... still this is a solid point, and... Ooo.. this gives me an idea.. what if.. They kept the current 50%/5 streak thing they have right now.. let all the whiners be happy that their precious streak was left alone and what not, because some people fear change ... This new thing it is bad... and all that jazz.

    BUT! .... what if for "game balance" they Sold it as a Store item, Call it Compendium of Past Deeds, that had this streak mechanic built into it, as such, players could literally just buy an endless streak bonus if they wanted to. That way, everyone else can just play as they always played, but the power players can at their desire have this feature. They could put in the store next to the Otto's stone, Exp Pots, and Tomes of Greater Learning.

    I mean ... I would not buy it till they fixed their inventory issues .. but.. I am sure many people would, and it would justify the dev cost to make it as opposed to upsetting people by trying to give them something for free.

  8. #48
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    To the OP:

    The proposal is insane. The numbers you are talking create a disincentive to streaking because the additional percentage is tied to the numbers in the streak.

    A simpler solution is to set a streak cap, where you can only get X% additional XP to any completion in your streak - let's say we add a max +80% bonus (just a number out of thin air). Once that cap is hit, you accumulate a streak "credit" every 3 or 5 completions in your streak. This is what you decrement when you need to break your streak. So, if you have 10 credits to your elite streak, you would have no problem expending one of these to help a buddy run something on normal, or for favor. You expend the credit, your additional XP percentage is untouched, and everyone walks away happy. Balancing this simply becomes a matter of your upper streak limit, the maximum amount of XP you can add to any completion, and how many completions once that limit is reached to get a credit. My thought is have a max streak limit to 50, set the max XP percentage to +50%, and makes it 3 completions per credit.

    A value of +50% XP is a FRICKIN HUGE boost to any completion. Couple this with a sovereign XP elixir, ship XP shrine, and Voice you are more than doubling your XP on every quest. That'll keep the competionist crowd very happy.

    The problem is that if you give people an unlimited amount of XP they can add to their total, they will always drive upwards. No one wants to take a step backwards when they have an XP factory going. What you propose only solidifies that behavior.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    The problem is that if you give people an unlimited amount of XP they can add to their total, they will always drive upwards. No one wants to take a step backwards when they have an XP factory going. What you propose only solidifies that behavior.
    You are Absolutely right.

    But, I have a question for you. And just for you, as I don't want to hear what someone else may do, or some made up hypothetical, when you answer these questions:
    "Would you take a minor loss off a limitless streak bonus to help a friend?"

    "Would you take a minor loss off a limitless Streak bonus to run a raid you never ran before with your guild/channel/friends for the first time?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Wait, you lose 50+40+30+20+10, which amounts to a 150% Exp loss for the next five quests.
    150%*30k base XP = 45k loss from lost streak
    45k loss compensated by 20k obtained in the normal run ~ 25k net loss. Hence I said what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Under my idea, with Amendment 1:
    [...]
    if it was a large streak like over 300, that goes down to a 2% which means it becomes a net loss of 2+1.75+1.50+1.25+1+.75+.50+.25 = 9% total loss.
    With amendment the infinite loss you take by breaking a streak just gets harder to see.
    Basically, if there is a cap, we can stop counting the loss the moment the streak is restored to cap and tally up the total result, if there is no cap, you're wrong to stop counting after 8 runs, or any number actually, and so the total result is infinite loss.

    Imagine you have a streak "like over 300", which gives you some awesome XP multiplier "m", all quests give 50k base XP regardles of difficulty and you have two options:
    a) Run 100 quests on elite.
    b) Run a quest on normal, then 100 quests on elite.

    Which is better?

    a) gives you 50k*(100*m+0.25%*(0+1+2+...99))
    a) Gives you 50k+50k*(100*(m - 2%)+0.25%*(0+1+2+...99))) = 50k*(100*m + 0.25%*(0+1+2+...99))+ 50k - 50k*100*2% = exactly 50k behind what you'd have if you chose option "a". And it doesn't stop there, but grows with every subsequent run.

    Considering DDO players somewhat rational agents, I'd assume they'd jump on the option "a".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I would get zero benefit from this
    Oh, would you?


    EDIT:
    And I have a question for you:
    Would you take a permanent 2% XP penalty to help a friend?
    Last edited by MindCakes; 08-26-2014 at 10:29 AM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    You are Absolutely right.

    But, I have a question for you. And just for you, as I don't want to hear what someone else may do, or some made up hypothetical, when you answer these questions:
    "Would you take a minor loss off a limitless streak bonus to help a friend?"

    "Would you take a minor loss off a limitless Streak bonus to run a raid you never ran before with your guild/channel/friends for the first time?"
    XP is easy to come by in this game, now. The only change that streak needs is to display only the streak number that matters, 0 - 5. This is to reduce the psychological attachment to the streak numbers. It is easier for some to break streak when they see a 5 than it is when they see a 500, even though the two different number give the same bonus.
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  12. #52
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    To the OP...it is an interesting proposal, but I don't think it will accomplish what you want it to accomplish. I can only speak for myself, but I would shy away from anything that would break my streak, no matter how the XP bonus was set-up...I only have a very limited amount of time to play, so I enjoy playing first life characters on heroic elite because this gives me both more challenge (i.e. limited gear, past lives, etc), and a lot of choice of which quests I want to run at any one time, instead of being forced to run every single quest, like a checklist. My guildie mentioned the other day he wanted to run a particular quest on casual and I just cringed!

    Instead, I very much like the idea of some type of mulligan, where you could run a quest on a lower difficulty without breaking your streak. People have made some good suggestions on this, or in how your streak decrements that could work. Heck, the developers could even make a mulligan token that drops in chests, or is sold in the store, and the solution could be that simple.
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    I'm still not entirely sure streaks really will have the effect people are expecting if they DO change them. I'm still probably not going to join that heroic hard or normal group. I've played the game for too many years to have any sort of fun in the lower heroic difficulties, on top of enjoying a do every quest once a life, collect my favor (the real motivation for me to do elite to be honest) and move on without doing quest repetition burnout. My behavior won't change even if the streaks do, because this is how ti's FUN for me to play.

    I may be unusual. But I am running into a LOT of people who have the same thought process going on. So this may be a fairly common mentality.

    That being said, I'm not nasty about it.

    -I don't care if you die. That 10% bonus is piddly. There are plenty of other bonuses we can get in a quest. I won't have a meltdown, I won't blacklist you, I will come and fix you (if you die, if you're jerkish in general I will blacklist and leave you), and if you'd like me to I'll help you figure out where the mistake was made and how to do better in the future.

    -I don't mind slowing down the quest, or if the rest of the group is unwilling, I don't mind staying by you to make sure you are getting through okay and telling you what you are missing so you know for future runs.

    - I don't judge your value in my parties by your kill counts, but by your behavior and how much fun you brought to my play experience. That's why when I am in the mood to pug my lfm's usually say "everyone welcome'.

    I think the real problem here is a social one, not a technical one. But easier to blame the game mechanics than to say we have forgotten it's just a game, and that playing the game a little bit longer to get to destination while helping others isn't a loss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    It seems that "Streak" tends to get brought up a lot, normally blamed for everything from the lack of Pugs to Why everyone has everyone else black listed, and there have been numerous posts on how to fix the "streak problem".

    Most of us also know why streak was put in, and that was to minimize grinding and reward players for doing a larger number of quests throughout the game as opposed to farming the same dozen or so quests from start to cap. Which is a great idea really, it gets those less run quests run more often.

    Unfortunately this has built up the demand that players run elite and nothing else, ever, under any circumstance, which I do not think was Turbines Plan, and why they put the streak cap at 5, so that if it gets broken it is pretty easy to replace.

    But, why?



    Work with me for a moment, While I agree that people getting wrapped up in streak is not really that great an idea, but, truth be told, I really don't think that streak is the problem. The problem that I see, is new players or more aptly first life that have no place worrying about it, getting all worked up over it and trying to build it up that is the problem. I mean really, wound't it be great if that was one of those things that players can worry about "next life" if they get there, as opposed to adding in even more things they need to think about this life?

    So I propose that Turbine change the streak mechanic to cater to the people that would use it best, which would be the power players.

    Thus, my suggestion is that they change the streak mechanic to work like this.
    Elite Streak:

    • +1% Exp Per Streak Bonus Up to 100 (Up to a 100% Bonus)
    • +0.50% Exp Per Streak From 100 to 300 (Up to a +200% Bonus)
    • +0.25% Exp Per streak from 300+ On ever.

    Hard Streak:

    • +0.50% Per Streak up to 200 (up to a 100% Bonus)
    • +0.25% Per Streak from 201 to 500 (up to a 200% Bonus)
    • +10% Per Streak past 500+ Forever.



    Now to answer a few questions:

    "What if some Power Player builds up a 1000+ streak and gets a 375% Exp per quest from it! Would that be fair!"

    Ok first off, if someone builds a 1000+ streak to get a 375%+ Exp bonus, them getting it is VERY fair, make no mistake they worked hard to get that streak, and they earned it. Thus they should have it!

    Wouldn't this cause even less people to Pug?

    No, the people obsessing about having a 100+ streak now, would be the same people worrying about streak after this change, not a single thing would change about their play style, the people that did not worry about streak before would be even less inclined to worry about it after this change, and the people that were trying to build it up, but really had not place doing so, would realize that it was a futile endeavor and not worry about, which might improve pugging again among the more casual players, as well as power players being motivated to team up to get those pesky difficult dungeons done to get that +1 streak.

    In the end, it would give new and casual players one less thing worry about, and provide power players a solid reward for their efforts. Which everyone wins.

    Personally, I think the power gamers would positively LOVE this change as it would reward their efforts to keep a high streak, and it would take a good deal of stress off the casual/new players as well.

    Amendment 1:

    "Breaking Streak" would be removed, in it's place would a "Points off" function. Since Streak could now grow to any point, as opposed to having players protect their streaks or worry about breaking it, a new system would be put in where if they did a quest on a lower difficulty it would not be an all or nothing, they would just get some points off their streak for doing the game equal of "wimping out".

    It would work like this:
    For Elite:

    • -4 Off An Elite Streak for Doing Hard
    • -8 Off an Elite Streak for Doing Normal
    • -16 Off an Elite Streak for Doing Casual (Because really? Casual?)

    For Hard:

    • -4 Off Hard Streak for Doing Normal
    • -16 Off a hard Streak for Doing Casual (Really? Casual?)


    Sure there is a loss, but if someone has a 300+ streak, losing 4 off their number amounts to 1% which is not much of a loss at all when you are walking to the quest at +200%, and since bonus have no cap now, 1% becomes meaningless in the greater scheme of the game.

    Thus, If they opt to do a "Normal" quest, it's still not the end of the world for them like it used to be.

    The reason for this also is to have it so that players are still inspired to keep pushing Elite, where if the streak was totally unbreakable, players would just do elite till "streak cap" and then do hard for easier competition with a maxed streak to back them up and then complain that elite was not worth the effort because they could just max streak and then farm hard.

    There needs to be that carrot and that stick to keep them doing elite, and this idea I think gives it both, with reasonable amounts of each.
    Let me make sure I understand what you are saying....

    You think providing even MORE benefit to running elite quests...in a row..... for a longer period of time would make new and casual players desire the benefits less?

    that makes my brain hurt.

    the whole concept of "Streaks" needs to go away.


    Bravery bonus should Cap at 5 like it does now.

    Doing a quest on a lower setting should drop you down one notch.
    Last edited by Impaqt; 08-26-2014 at 11:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Wait, you lose 50+40+30+20+10, which amounts to a 150% Exp loss for the next five quests.

    Under my idea, with Amendment 1:

    Even if you did Normal, you lose 8 points off. If that was a starting streak, which would be 8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 for a total of 36% loss

    if it was a large streak like over 300, that goes down to a 2% which means it becomes a net loss of 2+1.75+1.50+1.25+1+.75+.50+.25 = 9% total loss.
    I think you're misunderstanding what other people see as the big problem with your proposal. Those 8 points lost for doing a quest on normal? The problem is that they are gone forever. Yes, of course, if you have a streak of 300 and go down to 292 you can work your way back up to 300 again. But that's just it, your're back to 300, instead of 308. And when you're at 308 you could've already been at 316 if you hadn't done that one quest on normal. That loss of 2% xp will be with you in every single quest for the rest of the game, through every life you play.
    That adds up to a pretty substantial penalty for "breaking streak".


    Also, your math at the beginning of your post is flawed. You need to consider the lost xp relative to base xp instead of just smashing numbers together. Actually losing 150% xp would mean ending up with less total xp than you had before you did the first of those quests.

    Say the 5 quests in Mindcakes example each give a base xp. That's a total of 5a xp (plus Conquest, Ransack, etc) whether you're on a streak or not.
    With a bravery streak of 5+ you get xp from bravery bonus equal to 5 * 0.5a = 2.5a
    Breaking the streak before running those quests gets you xp from bravery bonus equal to 0a + 0.1a + 0.2a + 0.3a + 0.4a = 1a
    XP gained with full bravery streak: 5a + 2.5a = 7.5a
    XP gained with broken bravery streak: 5a + 1a = 6a
    To see how much that's in percentages: 1 - 6/7.5 = 0.2 or 20%

    So, under the current system, breaking a streak and regaining it means a loss of 20% of base xp over 5 quests only. After those 5 quests it's business as usual with a maximum bravery streak.
    20% over 5 quests amounts to losing one quest's worth of base xp.

    By comparison, your proposal means a 2% xp loss over an indefinite amount of quests. 50 quests later you're still getting 2% of base xp less than you would if you hadn't broken streak before, 500 quests and two TRs later you're still getting 2% of base xp less than you could be getting.
    By this point you've lost ten quests' worth of base xp. And you'll continue to lose 2% in the future, even with a bravery streak of 800.

  16. #56
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    I can see it now.

    Calculating Bravery bonus is causing too much lag!
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸A R C H A N G E L S °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸
    Thelanis

    Alandael ~ Allendale ~ iForged ~ Roba ~ Sylon ~ Pokah ~ Keyanu ~ Wreckoning
    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    We don't envision starting players with Starter Gear and zero knowledge playing on Hard or Elite.
    Sev~

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    You are Absolutely right.

    But, I have a question for you. And just for you, as I don't want to hear what someone else may do, or some made up hypothetical, when you answer these questions:
    "Would you take a minor loss off a limitless streak bonus to help a friend?"

    "Would you take a minor loss off a limitless Streak bonus to run a raid you never ran before with your guild/channel/friends for the first time?"
    My answer is: I don't really care about streak. So yes, I'd take a minor loss because I'm not counting on any gain.

    Secondly, what I think is kinda irrelevant. The point to fixing a streak is to fix the PUG issue (because at this point, I don't think anyone denies that streaks are interfering with PUGs), and that has come about because no one wants to break their streak. Even first time players are obsessing over their streaks - I've actually seen it. So, giving people a streak bonus with no limit is not going to fix anything. It will simply become a means to churn out new lives via less content. Once they hit triple-completionist + 1 life, that all basically goes away (I'm assuming that this is the theoretical limit to the TR chain). Because once a limit is reached, there is no burning need to progress beyond that.

    The point to streaks was to make the TR train a little easier. Doubling XP from any given quest on elite meets that need. if it doesn't, then please someone specify what it would take.

  18. #58
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    I'm going to add my voice to those saying that this is not a good solution at all if the goal is to get more veteran players to be willing to be willing to drop streak to play a lower difficulty to help a pug. A better solution would be:

    Remove bravery streak entirely.
    Make elite quests give 150% bonus automatically for first time completions (80% +20% for first time elite difficulty +50% for max streak bonus)
    Do the same type proportions with Hard difficulty.
    Normal stays the same.

    Now players can play any difficulty without worrying about breaking streaks and it's not a number you have to worry about maintaining. That is a more simple solution that better meets your desired outcome than what you're proposing.

  19. #59
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    <duplicate>
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 08-26-2014 at 12:12 PM.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnie View Post
    I think you're misunderstanding what other people see as the big problem with your proposal. Those 8 points lost for doing a quest on normal? The problem is that they are gone forever. Yes, of course, if you have a streak of 300 and go down to 292 you can work your way back up to 300 again. But that's just it, your're back to 300, instead of 308. And when you're at 308 you could've already been at 316 if you hadn't done that one quest on normal. That loss of 2% xp will be with you in every single quest for the rest of the game, through every life you play.
    I understand what they are saying, but they are also trying to tell me that giving people more makes them feel like they get less.

    Which is rather odd, if not rater silly to say the least.

    But, the main thing here, that everyone seems to miss about this, is that they they had to chose to take the hit in the first place, no one forced them to do it.

    Also, your math at the beginning of your post is flawed. You need to consider the lost xp relative to base xp instead of just smashing numbers together. Actually losing 150% xp would mean ending up with less total xp than you had before you did the first of those quests.

    Say the 5 quests in Mindcakes example each give a base xp. That's a total of 5a xp (plus Conquest, Ransack, etc) whether you're on a streak or not.
    With a bravery streak of 5+ you get xp from bravery bonus equal to 5 * 0.5a = 2.5a
    Breaking the streak before running those quests gets you xp from bravery bonus equal to 0a + 0.1a + 0.2a + 0.3a + 0.4a = 1a
    XP gained with full bravery streak: 5a + 2.5a = 7.5a
    XP gained with broken bravery streak: 5a + 1a = 6a
    To see how much that's in percentages: 1 - 6/7.5 = 0.2 or 20%
    Not in any way to be rude, but You do realize that this just makes it sound even sillier to try and point out someone may have lost 1% out of +300% bonus. Right?

    But lets use math for a moment.

    Lets say base quest, 30K Exp.

    30,000 EXP * 50% = 15,000 Exp. So the First Quest nets you a 15K Exp loss off of what you could have made.
    30,000 Exp * 40% = 12,000 Exp. So you now take a 12K Exp hit off what you could have made.
    30,000 EXp * 30% = 9,000 Exp off what you could have made.
    6,000, then 3,000 and then you are back up to full streak again.

    So, add that up.

    In the course of 5 quests where you made 150,000 base exp, Not including other benefits and boons, you made 45K less exp then you could have made.

    ok fair enough, not a big deal, but that is still 45K Exp you now will never had made for the rest of this life that you will need make up some other way, correct? As the best you can ever get is 50%.

    So this loss will need to be obtained by running more quests. Not a big deal, a loss of 1.5 quests over the course of a life, or one quest with bravery.

    lets look at my system.

    now remember, you COULD have made is the big deal here.

    So lets look at it.

    At a 300% bonus, you drop Streak, you take a -4 to your number and this means -1% off the bonus. (you can just double the numbers for a -8, they still look just as silly)

    So lets look at a Single Quest, in fact, lets look the first quest after breaking streak, a 30K Quest nets you a loss 300 exp for that -4 to your precious number.

    Ok pause and think about that, 300 exp. But, it's less then that, because you are still going to make a Bonus anyway off this quest, so you went from a 300% to a 299%, which means you're going to be making an additional 89,700 exp from your continuing bonus, so, you very first quest after breaking streak is going to net you 119,700 Exp, so, are taking a 0.2%, exp loss of what you could have been making from that quest had you not "broken" streak.

    8 Quests later, I'll give you the full 300 per quest, so that is a total of 2400 exp, but, you will have gotten a total of
    2nd Quest after Breaking Streak will return you to 89775 bonus Exp.
    3rd = 19,850

    Well you get the idea, so, imagine how minuscule of a total impact on your exp gain it would be to lose that 2400 exp over 8 quests, while still maintaining a massive bonus, over losing 45K over 5 quests and only at best getting a nominal bonus.

    And as the bonus gets bigger, the less and less and less that vaunted 300 exp becomes. when they have a Streak of +500% Exp, where their bonus from a 30K quest nets them 150,000 EXP, for a total of 180,000, 300 exp becomes 0.1% exp less then they could have gotten for that quest.

    Now.

    lets look at it another way...

    45K Exp out of 3.8 million exp over 300 Quests is roughly 0.1% of your total exp for that life.

    300 exp * 300 Quests = 90,000 EXP for a total life, or .2% of your total exp needed to level, but. When you have a 300% bonus vs a 50% bonus, so you are going to go through each life 6 times faster (roughly, lets say 5 times for the politeness) so 300 quests becomes it becomes 60 quests, which means 300 exp loss over 60 quests = 18,000 exp lost per life, or put another way 0.04% of your total exp needed for that life, so it would take you 5 TR's under my system to reclaim the net loss you would take under the current system. and that is if you did not build your streak at all during those future 5 lives.

    Ok, so, I guess this is where I get told my math is wrong or something, and you know, it very well could be, but, I am failing to see the downside to my system on any venture.

    But none the less you have shown me that some players would not be ready for such a change, that they don't or wouldn't have the frame of mind to embrace such a system even if it worked for them better in the long run.

    Such is life.
    Last edited by Ungood; 08-26-2014 at 12:23 PM.

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