# Thread: Acceleration and Why It Takes Longer To Get Max Blitz in U23

1. ## Acceleration and Why It Takes Longer To Get Max Blitz in U23

DISCLAIMER: I do not support one blitz system over another, I just thought this was a fun mathematical exercise.

A lot of people have been complaining that reaching a 10stack blitz is harder in U23 lamannia.

In the old system, every stack of blitz you attained made it easier to get the next stack, this is called acceleration. For example you could prepare 3 mobs then pop a blitz and be up to a 10 stack in no time. There was some strategy involved and players had some degree of control over their blitz acceleration. However, the new system has a static proc chance, which makes acceleration zero and now blitz building becomes a linear slope. This also lends itself nicely to a mathematical analysis because the only strategy for maintaining blitz is to just keep landing hits.

The three charts are for three different conditions. 0% downtime means you spend 100% of your time landing attacks on mobs. 33% downtime means you spend 2/3 of the quest smacking mobs and 1/3 running from mob to mob. 50% downtime means you spend half the quest smacking mobs and the other half running between them.

The blue line is the line of interest to most - it is a track of how high your blitz is at a given time. Obviously you can't go past 10 stacks but I let the blue line go beyond that just to demonstrate the overall trend.

As you can see, at 50% downtime (which I consider the most realistic), it will (on average) take about 6 minutes to reach 10 stack.

On the flipside, the new blitz system is great for bossfights, because then your chart will look more like the 0% downtime line, which permits 10 stack in about 2 minutes.

However if your boss fight lasts 2 minutes (reasonable for most raids), you will on average be hitting with a 5stack for the majority of the time.

If you want me to do analysis for THF greatsword, THF non-greatsword, TWF non-handwraps let me know, I can run those numbers too.

Happy to explain the math on a question-by-question basis, or e-mail my spreadsheets.

2. As far as i can see your calculation does not take into account that most melees use at least Cleave and Great Cleave which can boost the stacks quite fast in hordes of mobs. Does it take into account things like Haste Boosts, Speed (and other alacrity) items, BAB attack speed increase, Offhand Procs, Doublestrike etc.? And do you know if grazing hits add additional stacks by chance? All of that would change the result of your calculation dramatically in favor of blitzing.

3. Originally Posted by ishr
As you can see, at 50% downtime (which I consider the most realistic), it will (on average) take about 6 minutes to reach 10 stack.
Great analysis, thank you. To me it shows that blitz just got very boring but that was expected I guess. It certainly makes blitz less interesting for short (speed) runs.

On your chart 6 mins = 360 sec at 50% downtime looks more like 8 stacks than 10 stacks though. Am I missing something?

4. so they did nerf Blitz

5. I did a couple of quests yesterday with the new blitz.
Basically now you change from 'starting blitz on trash' to 'starting blitz on a rednamed'.

When I tried to blitz off a couple trash mobs, I would usually lose my blitz.
That's my main critique with the new system. It punishes players with high DPS.
If it takes you less swings to kill stuff the more likely it is that you don't build up blitz stacks.

I really think they should change the build-up of stacks to a damage based variable instead (e. g. 'Get 1 stack of blitz every 3000 damage dealt').

6. I'm confused how you modeled "blitz decay"...this description was posted tonight, emphasis mine:

"Activate for 15 seconds you gain +10 melee power, +10 ranged power, +30 PRR. Anytime you hit an enemy while under the effects of master's blitz, you have a 10% chance to gain an additional stack of melee and ranged power and restart the duration. The bonus stacks up to 10 times and deincrements 1 per 15 seconds."

That seems to suggest that Blitz wont decay at all as long as you can proc a new stack at least once every 15 seconds. Given that, then the blue line and the green line should be the same, long-term, as long as you're hitting more than once every 1.5 seconds on average (which is, obviously, very easy to do). The only limit to how fast you can stack Blitz is how fast you can hit.

On average, you should get up to 10 stacks by the time you do ~100 hits (I know that's not how math actually works, but ballpark) if that description is how it actually works.

Also, if it takes more than 10 hits per mob, on average, to kill them, "new blitz" is better than "old blitz". That scenario is not likely in EN...possible/probable in EH...and definitely the case in EE. Also its definitely the case for red-names at any difficulty.

7. Originally Posted by ishr
DISCLAIMER: I do not support one blitz system over another, I just thought this was a fun mathematical exercise.

A lot of people have been complaining that reaching a 10stack blitz is harder in U23 lamannia.
Without entering on how exact numbers are, if you want to make a correct mathematical exercise then you should start by clarifying that those 10 stacks of blitz now are just a part of the damage supposedly 2/5, while the 3/5 is a base, this is very important to offer a whole view of the issue.

The graphs thus should look pretty different with a 150 base and those 10 stacks counting as 100.

8. i really really like eths suggestion. too late though.

9. Originally Posted by Eth
I did a couple of quests yesterday with the new blitz.
Basically now you change from 'starting blitz on trash' to 'starting blitz on a rednamed'.

When I tried to blitz off a couple trash mobs, I would usually lose my blitz.
That's my main critique with the new system. It punishes players with high DPS.
If it takes you less swings to kill stuff the more likely it is that you don't build up blitz stacks.

I really think they should change the build-up of stacks to a damage based variable instead (e. g. 'Get 1 stack of blitz every 3000 damage dealt').
Very good point. Right now the optimal strategy is to run the first few minutes of the quest completely unarmed. The best thing to do is unequip your weapon slot, and haste boost while whacking the first few mobs with a scroll or nothing at all. There is still incentive to yell at other players not to kill mobs, because that deprives you of landing hits. We may see a shift from "DONT KILL THAT MOB!!!" to "DONT KILL THAT MOB!!! AND DONT STUN OR HOLD IT!!! EVERYONE UNEQUIP WEAPONS!!!"

10. Originally Posted by droid327
I'm confused how you modeled "blitz decay"...this description was posted tonight, emphasis mine:

"Activate for 15 seconds you gain +10 melee power, +10 ranged power, +30 PRR. Anytime you hit an enemy while under the effects of master's blitz, you have a 10% chance to gain an additional stack of melee and ranged power and restart the duration. The bonus stacks up to 10 times and deincrements 1 per 15 seconds."

That seems to suggest that Blitz wont decay at all as long as you can proc a new stack at least once every 15 seconds. Given that, then the blue line and the green line should be the same, long-term, as long as you're hitting more than once every 1.5 seconds on average (which is, obviously, very easy to do). The only limit to how fast you can stack Blitz is how fast you can hit.

On average, you should get up to 10 stacks by the time you do ~100 hits (I know that's not how math actually works, but ballpark) if that description is how it actually works.

Also, if it takes more than 10 hits per mob, on average, to kill them, "new blitz" is better than "old blitz". That scenario is not likely in EN...possible/probable in EH...and definitely the case in EE. Also its definitely the case for red-names at any difficulty.
10 hits per mob... definitely the case in EE??!! What is that, Wizza's sorc with a melee weapon after his sp was drained?
Most trash mobs have like 5k-10k hp, its like 2-4 swings from a REAL dps character... and if you have mortal fear weapon, you kill orange named minibosses in 3 sec. Moving to a mob, stun it, kill it, takes only a few sec, the new blitz is a nerf, period.

11. Originally Posted by Yalinaa
10 hits per mob... definitely the case in EE??!! What is that, Wizza's sorc with a melee weapon after his sp was drained?
Most trash mobs have like 5k-10k hp, its like 2-4 swings from a REAL dps character... and if you have mortal fear weapon, you kill orange named minibosses in 3 sec. Moving to a mob, stun it, kill it, takes only a few sec, the new blitz is a nerf, period.
Well there are many reasons the new blitz is a nerf, most prominent among them being the proxy nerf argument, that is not the point of this thread. I'm just trying to explain why people feel like theyre mainly sitting at 6 charges and not running the whole quest at 10 charges like before. It is also interesting to deduce that the new best blitz strategy is to do the least amount of damage possible and yell at other players to decrease their damage and not stun/hold mobs. On the bright side, while nerfing blitz they have also taken away the annoying charge up aspect.

12. Originally Posted by ishr
Well there are many reasons the new blitz is a nerf, most prominent among them being the proxy nerf argument, that is not the point of this thread. I'm just trying to explain why people feel like theyre mainly sitting at 6 charges and not running the whole quest at 10 charges like before. It is also interesting to deduce that the new best blitz strategy is to do the least amount of damage possible and yell at other players to decrease their damage and not stun/hold mobs. On the bright side, while nerfing blitz they have also taken away the annoying charge up aspect.
That would only be the best strategy if maintaining stacks was more the goal than completing the quest. It seems pretty oxymoronic to lower DPS to maintain a DPS buff.

It would seem to me that one would be better off just not blitzing if blitz meant they actually had to slow down to maintain it.

13. LD with Blitz is basically the new boss beater destiny.

14. Originally Posted by Yalinaa
Most trash mobs have like 5k-10k hp, its like 2-4 swings from a REAL dps character... and if you have mortal fear weapon, you kill orange named minibosses in 3 sec. Moving to a mob, stun it, kill it, takes only a few sec, the new blitz is a nerf, period.
How are you doing 1250-5000 damage per hit, on average, *without* counting MF procs? I think someone with a really good blitz build had said he was doing something like 700 base damage with full Blitz before the change, but even that with procs and MF should give you at least 10 hits on average vs 10k-HP mobs.

And yes, if people are complaining that they're doing *too much* DPS....well maybe roll a TF with CC mods instead of DPS. 5% chance for 5 second Paralyze, no save, 5% chance Hold Monster...you'll slow down your kill rate enough to keep Blitz charged, and also keep mobs from doing anything to you.

You'd think the fact that you can keep Blitz going through a red-named fight - when you need the DPS the most - would be something everyone's clamoring over. Let alone no Tactical requirement anymore...I'd rather spam unarmed attacks on the first troll in Trial by Fire for a few moments than sit there spamming Trip and Sunder for two minutes.

15. I had a quick play with new blitz on a fresh rolled BF pally in solo EE trial by fire, beating on singles and the new pally cleaves on groups I could barely get the stack over 2 or3 and it kept decaying to nothing, so triggering the cool down, it was very frustrating.

IMHO it should have an increased change to proc up from 10% to at least 20%.

I'd prefer it if they turn the live version on its head, so you gain a stack when you first hit a new mob as opposed to kill one, then all melees can hit a mob for a stack but who kills is irrelevant.

16. Originally Posted by Dexraven
I had a quick play with new blitz on a fresh rolled BF pally in solo EE trial by fire, beating on singles and the new pally cleaves on groups I could barely get the stack over 2 or3 and it kept decaying to nothing, so triggering the cool down, it was very frustrating.

IMHO it should have an increased change to proc up from 10% to at least 20%.

I'd prefer it if they turn the live version on its head, so you gain a stack when you first hit a new mob as opposed to kill one, then all melees can hit a mob for a stack but who kills is irrelevant.
Yup, my experience with it was essentially that they've turned Blitz into an actual Epic "Moment" rather than an Epic "Quest-Long Experience."

17. Originally Posted by Eth
LD with Blitz is basically the new boss beater destiny.
well this is only true for surround and pound boss fights that last over 2 min. any boss which can be felled by a furyshot should still be taken down in that fashion if we're talking max/min. For longer drawn out fights, of which there are barely any leftover in this game, LD wins.

18. Originally Posted by Eth
LD with Blitz is basically the new boss beater destiny.
This mechanic IMO is really really bad. So all the red names and raid bosses in the game just became big *******? All the raid bosses are gonna take less then a minute to kill ..... I think it's an awful idea to have 6 + melee's in a raid group blitzing down a raid boss in seconds.

19. Originally Posted by moo_cow
This mechanic IMO is really really bad. So all the red names and raid bosses in the game just became big *******? All the raid bosses are gonna take less then a minute to kill ..... I think it's an awful idea to have 6 + melee's in a raid group blitzing down a raid boss in seconds.
Sounds a bit exaggerated, unless you're including the low-level Epic Raids (ie DQ, Chrono etc) and non-Epic Raids where this already happens. Also, if Blitz falls out of favor as the "go-to/must have" melee dps destiny, that will also work against the odds of half+ the raid party Blitzing the boss.

20. Originally Posted by PermaBanned
Yup, my experience with it was essentially that they've turned Blitz into an actual Epic "Moment" rather than an Epic "Quest-Long Experience."
That's a GOOD thing.

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