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  1. #101
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    2. I understand the desire not to make the thunderforge obsolete, and I don ot want it to become so. But many of the most iconic weapons in the history of this game come from this pack. Most of them are only useful for specific builds and situational. Not including epic versions of Unwavering Ardency, Staff of the Petitioner, Breeze, Deathnip, Twinblade, and Skiver is more than a strategic decision, it is critical failure. It would be very easy to make epic versions of these which are highly sought after as end-game best in slot items and still have a very high demand for thunderforge for caster orbs, evoker caster sticks, nearly all light weapons for swashbuckers, all two handed weapons, crossbows, khopesh, and 90% of the items it is currently used for. Even if every single orchard weapon was made uber epic, I would still be using thunderforge for something on basically every toon I have.
    Agree with this. Since TF weapons were a fail at the point that the ingredients are no longer hard to get, there needs to be some good old raid loot, that is a bit less easy to obtain. The reason that you see a lot of folks leaving is that the game is too easy. Making the most powerful items in the game easy to obtain is one of the reasons. The cheaters will complain if/when the best loot moves back to raid loot, but that is what kept this game interesting for a long time. Now, the by pass timers may need an adjustment as well, but that is a different story and at least people will play the game to get things and not just "make" them without doing a thing.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    will you be my Uber Friend ?
    i would if i'd be uber, as far as my "lesser player" friend (still dont know what's a "lesser player") try to get better.
    Last edited by harry-pancreas; 08-25-2014 at 11:04 AM.
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...te-Threat-Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

  3. #103
    Community Member Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    That's not simple and it is not as it used to be. *Used to be * was: all named items btc.

    I've been an admittedly casual player since 2009 but that isn't how it "used to be" either. Many, many named items used to be entirely unbound. Named items from Tear of Dhakan, Red Willows, some House Jorasco quests, heck you can't even say that all Raid items were always BTC because stuff from Tempest Spine used to be unbound, and stuff from Chronoscope were(still are?) BTA. At some point a few years back when they added augments to random loot they did an upgrade pass on most named loot and probably because they were planning on introducing the ASAH they changed the bind status of most in-quest/ in chest named loot to BTCoE.

    So you see the bind status of loot has been a rather fluid thing in this game with not alot of consistency, rhyme or reason. We can each give our opinion of how we'd like it to be but they can change it whenever and however they want for whatever purpose.

    How would I like it to be?
    Raid Items BTCoA
    Chest Items BTCoE
    Quest End Rewards/Quest Chain End Rewards BTAoA
    Non-raid Crafting and possibly turn-ins (like adamantine ore/shield frags) BTAoE

    I would also like for ALL Quest chains to offer named items on their end reward lists, and ALL quest chain end reward lists to adhere to the 3x and every named loot appears on the list function that only some quest chains currently demonstrate. (Admittedly I'm dreaming here, but this is what I'd like to see.)

    I'd also like ALL named items to have augment slots. As soon as augment slots appeared on random loot, ALL named loot aught to have received slots.

    I would like for loot drop % to be something like HN/EN 1%, HH/EH 3%, HE/EE 9%.

    I really didn't mind the tiered loot, so I like the idea of Mythic items that are slightly better than the standard named items but I think they should only drop on EE and based on my own opinion of drop rates, I would reduce the drop rates of Mythic Items to 1% on EE but only available on EE. Personally, and this is just me, but I think its ludicrous for anything to have less than a 1% drop rate. If its so uber that you need to put a decimal with a bunch of zeros after it before placing the drop rate number than there's probably a reason it shouldn't be in the game at all.
    Last edited by Aelonwy; 08-25-2014 at 11:06 AM. Reason: wrote something wrong
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  4. #104
    Community Member mikameow's Avatar
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    Angry Weapons are a must!

    Leaving out epic version of some of the most interesting and iconic weapons in the game is simply unacceptable. Thunderforged will still be useful for some things but you need to give us options. If you design the weapons right they will be useful situationaly and not obsolete thunderforged. If they do then it wouldn't be the first time you make us farm raids for nothing longterm, cough LOB cough.

  5. #105
    Community Member barakhiel's Avatar
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    I can't help but chime my own disappointment at the lack of epic versions of the weapons, which, for me, has been the greater half of the allure to the very idea of Epic Necro IV for the last few years, the other half being the idea of completing "Ascension Chamber" style puzzles in an epic setting, but that's something for another thread methinks...
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  6. #106
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thar View Post
    Barbs/Fvs can use medium. Be nice if it had the heavy prr but was light enough for med usage. it would make sense.
    i know these classes can, but a lot of fvs (and druids) go for a lighter or no armor for evasion, barbs went extinct after the enhancement pass/nerf, especially since the raid got botched with constant level/stat and sp draining, most savy raidleaders will not include barbs in their party but instead opt for (evasion/heavy prr)paladin or fighters.
    the medium armor will most likely be going to the popular 2rog/2fi/16bard builds1 - , they'll want it for the (slightly)better AC then the light one, if they dumped their dex that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasHunter View Post
    2 things:
    1 - Maybe Mithral will have a bonus to PRR/MRR? That would be nice.
    2 - Devs, please give us non-metal medium armors. Not every build has evasion and I am really looking forward to medium armors have better usefulness, especially for my druids (again, please make some non-metal stuff - armor and shields!).

    Can't wait to play regardless!
    1 - unlikely, mithral will have less due to it being 1 step lighter. with the changes to the prr system, the medium armor will even be more nerfed then before.
    the medium armor will now give 24 instead of 40 prr.

    and this is not the only issue, no docent shown in the pictures???

  7. #107
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    Default Intercession Ward Item?

    Considering that quells can now suppress a whole bunch of Divine spells & spell like abilities, has anyone seen an item that will give Intercession Ward like Atonement does? I didn't spot one when I looked at the screenshots, & I'd hate for my cleric to have to go into the epic raid with the heroic version. Especially since she can't really use greataxes. But at least she can cast spells with it equipped, and on heroic that's enough. I'm not sure that will be enough on the new epic raid, since she can't equip any of her scepters while she has Atonement equipped.

  8. #108
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aletys View Post
    Considering that quells can now suppress a whole bunch of Divine spells & spell like abilities, has anyone seen an item that will give Intercession Ward like Atonement does? I didn't spot one when I looked at the screenshots, & I'd hate for my cleric to have to go into the epic raid with the heroic version. Especially since she can't really use greataxes. But at least she can cast spells with it equipped, and on heroic that's enough. I'm not sure that will be enough on the new epic raid, since she can't equip any of her scepters while she has Atonement equipped.
    Its hard to find in the portfolio of pictures, but Epic Glimpse of the soul has Intercession Ward.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    Its hard to find in the portfolio of pictures, but Epic Glimpse of the soul has Intercession Ward.
    Thank you, I found it, once I knew what to look for. Any idea which quest it's supposed to drop in?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I've been an admittedly casual player since 2009 but that isn't how it "used to be" either. Many, many named items used to be entirely unbound. Named items from Tear of Dhakan, Red Willows, some House Jorasco quests, heck you can't even say that all Raid items were always BTC because stuff from Tempest Spine used to be unbound, and stuff from Chronoscope were(still are?) BTA. At some point a few years back when they added augments to random loot they did an upgrade pass on most named loot and probably because they were planning on introducing the ASAH they changed the bind status of most in-quest/ in chest named loot to BTCoE.

    So you see the bind status of loot has been a rather fluid thing in this game with not alot of consistency, rhyme or reason. We can each give our opinion of how we'd like it to be but they can change it whenever and however they want for whatever purpose.

    How would I like it to be?
    Raid Items BTCoA
    Chest Items BTCoE
    Quest End Rewards/Quest Chain End Rewards BTAoA
    Non-raid Crafting and possibly turn-ins (like adamantine ore/shield frags) BTAoE

    I would also like for ALL Quest chains to offer named items on their end reward lists, and ALL quest chain end reward lists to adhere to the 3x and every named loot appears on the list function that only some quest chains currently demonstrate. (Admittedly I'm dreaming here, but this is what I'd like to see.)

    I'd also like ALL named items to have augment slots. As soon as augment slots appeared on random loot, ALL named loot aught to have received slots.

    I would like for loot drop % to be something like HN/EN 1%, HH/EH 3%, HE/EE 9%.

    I really didn't mind the tiered loot, so I like the idea of Mythic items that are slightly better than the standard named items but I think they should only drop on EE and based on my own opinion of drop rates, I would reduce the drop rates of Mythic Items to 1% on EE but only available on EE. Personally, and this is just me, but I think its ludicrous for anything to have less than a 1% drop rate. If its so uber that you need to put a decimal with a bunch of zeros after it before placing the drop rate number than there's probably a reason it shouldn't be in the game at all.
    Great post. I like the 1%/3%/9% rates, those seem very reasonable to me. And I 100% agree that if the drop rates needs to be infinitesimal that the item shouldn't probably exist.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    i know these classes can, but a lot of fvs (and druids) go for a lighter or no armor for evasion, barbs went extinct after the enhancement pass/nerf, especially since the raid got botched with constant level/stat and sp draining, most savy raidleaders will not include barbs in their party but instead opt for (evasion/heavy prr)paladin or fighters.
    the medium armor will most likely be going to the popular 2rog/2fi/16bard builds1 - , they'll want it for the (slightly)better AC then the light one, if they dumped their dex that is.



    1 - unlikely, mithral will have less due to it being 1 step lighter. with the changes to the prr system, the medium armor will even be more nerfed then before.
    the medium armor will now give 24 instead of 40 prr.

    and this is not the only issue, no docent shown in the pictures???
    I'm hoping (but not expecting) that maybe with the armor changes they'll finally fix mithral to work the way it should, which is to lower the armor category strictly for prerequisites (like armor proficiency and qualifying for evasion), and leave it higher otherwise for all other purposes (like calculating PRR/MRR). I know that change isn't super simple, but it should be super complicated either.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    I'm hoping (but not expecting) that maybe with the armor changes they'll finally fix mithral to work the way it should, which is to lower the armor category strictly for prerequisites (like armor proficiency and qualifying for evasion), and leave it higher otherwise for all other purposes (like calculating PRR/MRR).
    It's not just a matter of being able to handle the programming, but whether the game design allows Mithral to have all the benefits of Light and Medium armor in one item. They are giving Medium armor some huge advantages in PRR MRR in exchange for deactivating Evasion... if it gets to keep Evasion, then that's coming close to obsoleting every Light armor that's not a Mithral Breastplate.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabbler View Post
    It's not just a matter of being able to handle the programming, but whether the game design allows Mithral to have all the benefits of Light and Medium armor in one item. They are giving Medium armor some huge advantages in PRR MRR in exchange for deactivating Evasion... if it gets to keep Evasion, then that's coming close to obsoleting every Light armor that's not a Mithral Breastplate.
    This is and always has been the point of mithral; it grants the full benefit of a steel breastplate, because it's as strong as steel, but because it's lighter it's also less restrictive. PnP always worked right, DDO never has because they couldn't be bothered to program it right. To be fair, it didn't matter (and therefor can't blame them for the original programming much) until they introduced PRR... now it does. Now, for example, on the cove armor mithral is a penalty rather than a perk.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    This is and always has been the point of mithral
    Begging the question.

    Yes, that is the benefit of Mithral armor in a different game system.
    But is that what Mithral should do in the upcoming DDO game system? No, it's not really defensible to give a Light/Medium armor all the benefits of Medium/Heavy.

    That's mainly because they decided that improved PRR-MRR on Medium armors would be a key balancing factor to assist builds that don't have Evasion. That wasn't the best way to solve it, and if they'd used something else then this Mithral thing might have another result....
    Last edited by Scrabbler; 09-14-2014 at 04:08 PM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabbler View Post
    Begging the question.

    Yes, that is the benefit of Mithral armor in a different game system.
    But is that what Mithral should do in the upcoming DDO game system? No, it's not really defensible to give a Light/Medium armor all the benefits of Medium/Heavy.

    That's mainly because they decided that improved PRR-MRR on Medium armors would be a key balancing factor to assist builds that don't have Evasion. That wasn't the best way to solve it, and if they'd used something else then this Mithral thing might have another result....
    I guess we'll have to disagree on this. It's a special and rare material, it should have beneficial properties. It also provides a way for them to selectively add it (or not) to named items to increase power and attractiveness in ways that don't currently exist, and balance the item around that. My personal opinion is that granting it the PRR/MRR of the proper (higher) armor category is not enough to be imbalancing.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabbler View Post
    Begging the question.

    Yes, that is the benefit of Mithral armor in a different game system.
    But is that what Mithral should do in the upcoming DDO game system? No, it's not really defensible to give a Light/Medium armor all the benefits of Medium/Heavy.

    That's mainly because they decided that improved PRR-MRR on Medium armors would be a key balancing factor to assist builds that don't have Evasion. That wasn't the best way to solve it, and if they'd used something else then this Mithral thing might have another result....
    What?!?!?
    Mithral armor is rare.. that's the point.. is for it to have the benefits of the heavier armor. That's ALWAYS been the point. Parasitic Breastplate, Mithral Breastplate, etc etc.
    I really don't understand all of this recent hatred towards evasion tanks. We don't do DPS, we have to bend over backwards to gear, and we're already losing heavier shields. Now people want to see us lose our armor too?

    As to the loot.. Has anyone seen the newer Undying Gaze? Is there one? This is one of the coolest looking helmets in the game and could be an amazing tank helmet.

  17. #117
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4tonmantis View Post
    As to the loot.. Has anyone seen the newer Undying Gaze? Is there one? This is one of the coolest looking helmets in the game and could be an amazing tank helmet.
    Looks like a skull with pigtails.

  18. #118
    Community Member caellwin's Avatar
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    not seeing epics of these items that i wanted to be in the epic pack
    Vile Blasphemy
    Shroud of the Abbot
    Staff of the Petitioner

    did i missed them or are they too good to upgrade to epic...what?
    Caellwin on Orion server since December 2009

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by caellwin View Post
    not seeing epics of these items that i wanted to be in the epic pack
    Vile Blasphemy
    Shroud of the Abbot
    Staff of the Petitioner

    did i missed them or are they too good to upgrade to epic...what?
    - Vile Blasphemy became melee focused gloves instead of regen sp item.
    - No robe from the raid
    - No weapons in the raid

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post
    - No robe from the raid
    - No weapons in the raid
    Yes, it's a big mistake for them to skip on providing some of the items with artwork that you can actually see while playing. True, they added in some helmets (all but one of which had been useless in their original versions).

    At minimum, they should add versions of those weapons with the minimal upgrades to become "epic" (higher enhancement bonuses and more base dice). Those wouldn't be strong enough to compete with Thunderforge or COTW things, but they'd be there...

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