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  1. #1
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Default It's a SLAYER Zone Devs!

    Restless Isles Locked Doors have way too high DCs!

    Today I'm on my Lvl 15 Wizard {That's right I'm over the Max Level for the Slayer!} and I try to Knock the Doors:

    16+28 Fail
    19+28 Success

    That puts the DC at between 45 and 47 which is all well and good for a Rogue or Arti BUT it kills the viability of Knock {and Knock Wands are basically all but useless with their Min Lvls to even use!}.

    This is a SLAYER Zone - Apart from the fact that most people who actually run slayers have to run them solo {with the obvious exceptions of those few zones that are farmed for loot like Sands and Orchard.}. They Should be viable for more than TWO Classes!!!

    These DCs need to be at least 10 points lower than they are now to allow Knock to be viable without wasting SPs or Charges!


    EDIT: Next door I rolled a 17+28 and Failed so the DC is either 46 or 47!
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 08-20-2014 at 07:54 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    P.S. The Locked Chest even fails on a 19+28 - 500 SPs and I didn't roll a 20 but I think from previous experience this has a DC of 50 so even a 20 wouldn't have been enough!

    REMEMBER This is on a Lvl 15 Wizard {WIZARD not Sorc!} so Over the Max Level of the Slayer!

    This is a Lvl 7-14 Slayer! HOW are these DCs scaled so HIGH?

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Karadon_II's Avatar
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    I don't think the locked doors are as important as the issue as with needing to sweet talk the wildman guarding the secret passage which contains achievements.
    Still, agree that wilderness doors /chests should be openable by an overlevel arcane.
    Karadon, Paladin [5] Mar - Jul 2006 - Aureon [EU]
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  4. #4
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    Basically RI has had one update after being opened up - making it a slayer zone. The area is confusing but not all that big and the slayers and rares just are not worth it.

    The quests are ok but no one farms the items that were once worth it and with a drop rate near never, makes them unpopular.

    The Pre-raid is PIA to get to and requires divvying up the party - so many groups don't want players who get lost or don't know what they are doing 'cause they ain't babysittin' or going back, especially on a short man run. Which leads to the point this an area that leads to a Raid which should be converted to a regular quest as it only requires 3 people to complete; 2 for uber. Add in that the pillars create a miserable fail condition, you don't see lfms for this more than once every six months seemingly.

    So, while I hear you on the doors, seriously, the ENTIRE pack needs a pass. The closest thing was the recent map update a PLAYER did which makes it easier to navigate.
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  5. #5
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    Well, truth be told those doors are a bit annoying. However, I believe they made them that way because you can find the keys you need by killing ogre overseers.
    Keepers of Khyber - Proud Guild Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is how it should scale: Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.
    The Trophy Room A great idea. Please do this devs!

  6. #6
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    Hi,

    Your options include finding the key, building open lock skills into your character, using a hireling, or grouping with someone who can open the gates for you.

    "Not all content should be soloable".

    Thanks.
    Astrican on Khyber

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Karadon_II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ View Post
    Well, truth be told those doors are a bit annoying. However, I believe they made them that way because you can find the keys you need by killing ogre overseers.
    No the gates are fine, you get the keys from the Ogres for those alright. But there's also two or three round 'vault' style doors in the are that are locked with no keys, they are the ones I believe the OP is referring to.
    Karadon, Paladin [5] Mar - Jul 2006 - Aureon [EU]
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  8. #8
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    IIRC, you can either go around most of them or get keys from islands that will allow your to open them.
    Now my memory might be fuzzy, as it's been a very long time since I visited it.
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery Karadon_II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    Your options include finding the key, building open lock skills into your character, using a hireling, or grouping with someone who can open the gates for you.

    "Not all content should be soloable".

    Thanks.
    There's no key for those doors, they're only for the gates to the best of my knowledge.
    Unlocking hirelings are not available for plat.
    Grouping for the Restless Isles?? Seriously.

    Agree that not all content in an MMO should be soloable but in those cases it should not be soloable no matter your build.
    Karadon, Paladin [5] Mar - Jul 2006 - Aureon [EU]
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  10. #10
    Community Member FAQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karadon_II View Post
    No the gates are fine, you get the keys from the Ogres for those alright. But there's also two or three round 'vault' style doors in the are that are locked with no keys, they are the ones I believe the OP is referring to.
    Oh, those doors! I failed my comprehension check. Yes, I believe those doors are way out of line.
    Keepers of Khyber - Proud Guild Leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    This is how it should scale: Random loot < Named Loot < Raid Named Loot.
    The Trophy Room A great idea. Please do this devs!

  11. #11
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Hi,

    Your options include finding the key, building open lock skills into your character, using a hireling, or grouping with someone who can open the gates for you.

    "Not all content should be soloable".

    Thanks.
    Unfortunately the above is the kind of tripe the Devs love to see on the forums!


    Look: I'm talking about a SLAYER!!!

    A Lvl 10 SLAYER at that!!!

    There is NO Key for these doors OR for the Chest!!!

    I'm A WIZARD with KNOCK - Knock being unviable is a BIG Problem with this game!!!

    Oh Yeah and I shouldn't have to pay real money for a Hireling to complete a SLAYER!!! OVER LEVEL!!!

  12. #12
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    Basically RI has had one update after being opened up - making it a slayer zone. The area is confusing but not all that big and the slayers and rares just are not worth it.

    The quests are ok but no one farms the items that were once worth it and with a drop rate near never, makes them unpopular.

    The Pre-raid is PIA to get to and requires divvying up the party - so many groups don't want players who get lost or don't know what they are doing 'cause they ain't babysittin' or going back, especially on a short man run. Which leads to the point this an area that leads to a Raid which should be converted to a regular quest as it only requires 3 people to complete; 2 for uber. Add in that the pillars create a miserable fail condition, you don't see lfms for this more than once every six months seemingly.

    So, while I hear you on the doors, seriously, the ENTIRE pack needs a pass. The closest thing was the recent map update a PLAYER did which makes it easier to navigate.
    Yes - The Restless Isles DOES need a complete overhaul - I really don't see how making the Pre Raid into a quest would help though as the main difficulty with that Raid is Puzzle based which means the same issues no matter whether it's a Raid or a Quest {on Casual - Elite for that matter!}.

    However: I feel that a quick and easy Quality of Life fix for those of us who actually LIKE Explorer Zones would be to drop the required DCs to around 35-38 for ALL locks in the Slayer Zone {The Quests can stay as they are for now.}.

  13. #13
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    There is NO Key for these doors OR for the Chest!!!
    When RI came out that chest was one of the de-facto proving grounds for a rogue. Sort of like the trap/chest in Cabal. Only a maxed out rogue could pick that lock at the time. Personally I think the chest should stay that way.

  14. #14
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merridyan View Post
    When RI came out that chest was one of the de-facto proving grounds for a rogue. Sort of like the trap/chest in Cabal. Only a maxed out rogue could pick that lock at the time. Personally I think the chest should stay that way.
    Why?

    It's a Lvl 10 Slayer Zone and we have 28 Lvls now!

    Epic Restless Isles and stick it at Lvl 30 and I'll agree with you BUT a DC 48-50 Chest in Lvl 10 SLAYER content is Frankly Ridiculous!!!


    Also: Back then: RI was END-GAME content!
    You went in in a group and groups actually ran it together {at least I hope they did!}.

    These days even getting a group for a Slayer other than Sands/Orchard is unlikely And for RI? Forget It!


    Oh and you spoke about Cabal - Like all other Heroic Trap DCs that got nerfed heavily - What makes Locks so Special?
    Especially when Locks AREN'T the exclusive province of Rogues/Artis and Knock is supposed to WORK!!!
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 08-20-2014 at 10:30 AM.

  15. #15
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    I think all dc's were bumped up due to the trivialized past of locks. I think it happened un U21. I noticed after that update many locks and doors had much higher dc's to handle.

    Now if we could have our search lootgens and lock lootgens back in the game.

  16. #16
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    IIRC, you can either go around most of them or get keys from islands that will allow your to open them.
    Now my memory might be fuzzy, as it's been a very long time since I visited it.
    There are a couple of locked doors (at least one of which contains an explore IIRC) that have no keys, you just have to unlock them.
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  17. #17
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Why?

    It's a Lvl 10 Slayer Zone and we have 28 Lvls now!

    Epic Restless Isles and stick it at Lvl 30 and I'll agree with you BUT a DC 48-50 Chest in Lvl 10 SLAYER content is Frankly Ridiculous!!!


    Also: Back then: RI was END-GAME content!
    You went in in a group and groups actually ran it together {at least I hope they did!}.

    These days even getting a group for a Slayer other than Sands/Orchard is unlikely And for RI? Forget It!


    Oh and you spoke about Cabal - Like all other Heroic Trap DCs that got nerfed heavily - What makes Locks so Special?
    Especially when Locks AREN'T the exclusive province of Rogues/Artis and Knock is supposed to WORK!!!
    Why do you think you should be able to open every door/lock with a Wizard? So you miss out a chest with **** loot.. big deal.

  18. #18
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I think all dc's were bumped up due to the trivialized past of locks. I think it happened un U21. I noticed after that update many locks and doors had much higher dc's to handle.
    Uh..No - Restless Isles has ALWAYS been like this {at least for the past 3 Years!}.

    Trap DCs got reorganised when MotU came out {or just after} but it seems Locks did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    There are a couple of locked doors (at least one of which contains an explore IIRC) that have no keys, you just have to unlock them.
    Actually that's a Gate, a Rare and is unlockable with one of the Ogre Keys.

    The last Explorer and Rare require you to get an item from the Slavers of the Shrieking Mines Quest to open {Pretty sure the talk options don't work - though that could be just that they have such stupidly high DCs that even an Epic Character built for them can't get the Wildman to open that secret door!}.


    Quote Originally Posted by merridyan View Post
    Why do you think you should be able to open every door/lock with a Wizard? So you miss out a chest with **** loot.. big deal.
    BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT KNOCK IS SUPPOSED TO DO!!!

    A Rogue or Arti should be second choice behind Wizards/Sorcs for Lock Duty NOT out and out the ONLY Choice because Knock is Broken thanks to Rogues/Artis being able to get MUCH Higher OL DCs than Arcanes can get with Knock!

    And Knock Wands are just about Worthless as their Min Lvls which are based on Caster Level are set too high for their viability!


    AND AGAIN: THIS IS LEVEL 10 CONTENT!!!

    Like Threnal The Restless Isles was initially designed as End-Game Content and just like Threnal it has been left to rot by the Devs when some simple fixes could have made things very much better!

    We don't need total overhauls {well actually we do but they can wait!}. What we need is for the Devs to accept that this is NO LONGER End-Game content and make those few small changes to help those few of us who still run them!


    For Restless Isles:

    Drop the Lock DCs in the Explorer by 10 across the board!
    Fix the Wildman NPC by the Secret Door to respond to Bluff or Intim 30.
    Put the Second Beholder back in Slavers of the Shrieking Mines so that Optional is actually completable!
    Triple the Drop rate of the Head of Ghola Fan - We do have to actually complete this quest to have a shot at getting that!
    Double the Drop rate of the Ring of the Ancestors {What's so bad these days about None UMD users actually having a Raise Dead Clickie?}.
    Allow the NPCs at the Foothold to Teleport you to the Raid Entrance once you've completed BOTH Quests {i.e. have your Sigil} and the Explorer!
    Oh yeah...AND EPIC THE PLACE - Put it back at End-Game where it belongs! {Lvl 28 minimum!}


    For Threnal:

    Beef up Coyle's Guards in Hold For Reinforcements IF we keep them alive through the previous quest. {Currently they last all of 30 seconds!}.
    Remove the Aggro generator from Coyle while he's asleep! {On Elite ONLY!}.
    Make the Random Key Chest in The Missing Expedition/Entering the Gate Chamber stay in ONE SPOT.
    Remove one of the NPC Questgivers and allow the other to give out ALL 6 of the East and West Quests to avoid the chain not advancing Bug!
    Add 2/4/6 Phiarlan Favour to each of the Giant Caves {put them in the Compendium} and set up the 400 Favour Reward.
    Place a couple of Rares in the Outdoor area {I'm not gonna call it a Slayer Zone} - A Jungle Giant, A Cave Bear and A Small Outpost of Yuan Ti at the Arena.
    Place some Explorer Points in the Outdoor area {6 of them should do}.
    Give the Outdoor area a Slayer total of 400.
    Oh yeah...AND EPIC THE PLACE - Put it back at End-Game where it belongs {or at least at say Lvl 22!}.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 08-20-2014 at 01:04 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post

    BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT KNOCK IS SUPPOSED TO DO!!!

    A Rogue or Arti should be second choice behind Wizards/Sorcs for Lock Duty NOT out and out the ONLY Choice because Knock is Broken thanks to Rogues/Artis being able to get MUCH Higher OL DCs than Arcanes can get with Knock!

    And Knock Wands are just about Worthless as their Min Lvls which are based on Caster Level are set too high for their viability!

    AND AGAIN: THIS IS LEVEL 10 CONTENT!!!

    For Restless Isles:

    Drop the Lock DCs in the Explorer by 10 across the board!
    10 just isn't enough, what about those newbs that haven't built their character quite right, we need to keep them happy too.

    Lets change Knock to match PnP exactly. Knock will open ALL locks regardless of DC. No need for rogues and arti's anymore, just enough UMD to use a scroll. At this point lets just remove all locked doors and chests, because it's not really fair that a CHA dumped barbarian can't get his UMD high enough to use a knock scroll... I really am not a fan of YOUR crusade to keep dumbing down DDO.

  20. #20
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merridyan View Post
    10 just isn't enough, what about those newbs that haven't built their character quite right, we need to keep them happy too.

    Lets change Knock to match PnP exactly. Knock will open ALL locks regardless of DC. No need for rogues and arti's anymore, just enough UMD to use a scroll. At this point lets just remove all locked doors and chests, because it's not really fair that a CHA dumped barbarian can't get his UMD high enough to use a knock scroll... I really am not a fan of YOUR crusade to keep dumbing down DDO.
    Dumbing Down?

    Making spells that don't work actually work? That's Dumbing down to you?

    Making DDO more like PnP? That's Dumbing down to you?


    And as for your use of the Slippery Slope to attack me - Please.

    It should be obvious to anyone that Knock cannot work in DDO in exactly the same way as it does in PnP BUT what we have instead is a typical case of Turbine going too far in the other direction!

    Rangers are able to disable certain traps in PnP {In fact ANYONE can disable a Bear trap in PnP - It's finding it that's the problem!} - It would be nice if Rangers had that ability given back to them BUT I wouldn't ask the Devs to make traps that ONLY Rangers could disable OR to give Rangers Disabling abilities far above and beyond those of Rogues and Artis!

    Allowing Rangers to Disable traps {hard to make it so they can only disable certain types of traps} without taking Rogue Levels wouldn't be "dumbing down" DDO either!
    It would however give one small reason for that Ranger to remain Pure over taking 2 Rogue Levels {which as they already get Evasion is simply for trapping alone!}.

    Fixing Knock is seemingly unviable as it's all the extra boosts that a Rogue/Arti/ANYONE WITH 1 ROGUE LEVEL! gets that cause the problem in the first place!

    So it's the DCs that have to come down - ESPECIALLY when those DCs are so far beyond what an over level Wizard or Sorc can hit that they basically need to roll a 19 or 20 to open a door!!!

    Actually the other way round - Requiring the Rogue or Arti to roll a 19 or 20* though egregious in a game that goes as fast as DDO would be nowhere near as bad as the only things that Rogue or Arti needs are time and tools which are available in abundance!
    Meanwhile the Wizard isn't using HALF their SPs to get through a Single Door!!!

    *FOR LOCKS not TRAPS!


    P.S. The Devs can always remove Knock Scrolls and Wands from Vendors and make them actually worth something when found in chests!
    Oh sorry...No they can't...As Knock Scrolls and Wands are currently utterly worthless unless favour farming Korthos/Harbour quests {in which case chances are you're not too bothered about missing an opt anyway!}.


    P.P.S. Funniest thing about the Crystal Cove wandapalooza was that those Wands were pretty much unusable anyway and now they're unvendorable not even worth taking!

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